Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism'

[Tozovac]

This is a silly comment. Ive is one of the most talented designers alive. He is the reason why everything Apple releases looks so much better than the crap everyone else makes.

You're focusing only on the good he's provided. He's provided (in my opinion) a lot of bad that's now outweighed the good, most notably after Jobs passed when he was mistakenly assigned UIx/software oversight and, as conjecture goes, nobody was left to reign in Jony's ultra-minimalist personal preferences at the sacrifice of flexibility, robustness, and usability that attracted all of us to Apple in the first place. You don't agree all or in part? For God sakes, check out his idea of a warm Christmas tree/scene.

Also, as far as comparing Apple to crap and mentioning Apple's products' appearances, I don't know about you but to me Apple's UI looks not much different than the wispy flat/material design of Microsoft and Google, which, so ironically, was borne from having to differentiate itself at least some from the then-world-class Apple UIx. The line between Apple software and hardware appearance and function ain't that much different from Android and Microsoft now, IMHO. Any OSX after Mavericks feels like I'm on some combo Microsoft & Fisher Price My First Computer platform.

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

Whoopsies, this looks like it could be bad for Apple in all the keyboard related lawsuits. They finally have admitted that the changes were to prevent issues and not just to make it “quieter.”

No they haven't. As some have pointed out, the US document doesn't mention debris at all, only making it quieter.

 

[shadowmatt]

Where did they deny it? I haven’t seen any quote from Apple that addressed this question in any way whatsoever.

Your link only proves my point.

They said the new keyboard is quieter.
They didn’t say anything about dust.
They didn’t say anything about the membrane.
[doublepost=1532009688][/doublepost]

Sometimes it registers multiple times. Sometimes it skips. Happens more often when the fans are running.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/12/2018-macbook-pro-quieter-keyboard/

The Verge's Dieter Bohn, however, says the third-generation keyboard "wasn't designed to solve those issues," based on what Apple told him during a press briefing for the new MacBook Pro earlier this week.This new third-generation keyboard wasn't designed to solve those issues, Apple says. In fact, company representatives strenuously insisted that the keyboard issues have only affected a tiny, tiny fraction of its user base…

When we asked Apple representatives at the event exactly how the keyboard was changed to make it quieter, they declined to specify.That can be interpreted in two ways: either Apple has not made any structural changes to the keyboard to address the issues outlined in its service program, or it has and doesn't want to acknowledge it on the record.

 

[ChrisCW11]

I mean really, if it wasn't for this there would be nothing to talk about for the new MacBook Pro update.

 

[cfdlab]

We are now entering Keyboardgate-Season-3. Be prepared for many more seasons if apple sticks to the same design. This keyboard is not robust and is not repairable unless you replace the whole top case. 2-3 years of usage will kill many more of these keyboards and the only options will be to pay the exorbitant rates to replace it.

 

[ondert]

You know you don’t have to get an i9 model right? Save yourself some money.

I'm OK with my 2016 MacBook Pro and just bought an iMac because it seems to be safer bet for now. Throttling issue is not only related to i9 version but the whole 2018 models. Even 13" models with i5.

 

[mrzz]

didn't they refuse this explanation and said at first that it's purely to limit noise?
"A torn membrane will result in a top case replacement" .. are they F serious?? I can't believe what I'm reading. It can't be described otherwise than as totally bad design.

 

[bobenhaus]

Looks obvious to me. hmm clear as can be.

 

[kodos]

Please don't be so condescending to others because your keyboard still works.

Apple admitted the keyboards have a design flaw.
All the reviewers know the keyboards have a design flaw.
Lot's of people have a problem with those keyboards.
There are numerous threads on this site and on others sites about the faulty keyboards.

And you are still blaming people for crumbing food over it? Maybe the person you reacted to treats his/hers laptop with utter care. You simply can't know.

How ignorant can you be?

There is something really broken in people who sympathize more with the world's biggest company rather than with an ordinary person who spent a significant amount of their wealth on a computer they expected to work well for them.

Several people cannot be without their machine (as a source of income for instance) to go get the keyboard serviced. It is a major pain.

On top of that to blame people for being slobs. It is as if they have no conscience.

 

[adamski23]

A torn membrane would require a top case replacement?!?!

How green of them!

 

[Yvan256]

How can so many people complain about crumbs and other particles getting into their keyboards and under the keys and then complain that it is the fault of Apple? Take some responsibility for your own actions.

Do you live in an industrial clean room? Dust is a fact of life. It's part of reality.

You should see all the dust under the keys of my Apple aluminium wired keyboard. I know there's too much dust under the keys when they start feeling "mushy". But the keys still work fine even with a dust bunny packed under the keys.

I simply unclip the key cap, remove the packed dust bunny, clip the key cap back on the scissor mechanism and I continue working. No multi-hundred dollars repair, no need to go to an Apple store that's a four hours drive away, no need to leave my keyboard with Apple for repair, no downtime.

If anyone should take some responsibility for their own actions, it's Apple. This craziness about making everything thinner serves no purpose and breaks everything along the way.

 

[shadowmatt]

Still on the fence about replacing my 17" 2011 model.

They built in that GPU failure issue so that machine will die, sooner than later. And now its past their extended warranty to fix it.

Recommendation: Switch it to use the integrated graphics instead, it will run cooler and that chip wont be used, meaning it wont fail and take down your whole mac.

 

[Yvan256]

Still on the fence about replacing my 17" 2011 model.

Replace it with a brand new 15" 2015, while you still can.

 

[cmaier]

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/12/2018-macbook-pro-quieter-keyboard/

The Verge's Dieter Bohn, however, says the third-generation keyboard "wasn't designed to solve those issues," based on what Apple told him during a press briefing for the new MacBook Pro earlier this week.This new third-generation keyboard wasn't designed to solve those issues, Apple says. In fact, company representatives strenuously insisted that the keyboard issues have only affected a tiny, tiny fraction of its user base…

When we asked Apple representatives at the event exactly how the keyboard was changed to make it quieter, they declined to specify.That can be interpreted in two ways: either Apple has not made any structural changes to the keyboard to address the issues outlined in its service program, or it has and doesn't want to acknowledge it on the record.

So dieter Bohn says Apple says... that’s hearsay. Macrumors says they “declined” to answer the question. And all dieter said was “wasn’t designed to solve those issues” which is ambiguous. It was designed to be quieter and also happens to solve the issue?

In any event, Apple made no public statements or verified private statements about the membrane.

 

[Yvan256]

Sold my rMBP mid 2012 a month ago since we all knew something was coming soon.. however with all this craziness going to hold off on purchasing a new machine. Currently sharing with my Fiancé, running my OS off an external SSD from her 2015 MBP. Runs amazing actually!

Buy a brand-new 15" 2015 while you still can.

 

[ricardoPT]

Actually 64 condoms.
[They saved the 14 condoms off the ESC row.]

Since they warn:

Be careful not to tear the membrane. A torn membrane will result in a top case replacement.

I presume it's only a big condom, or better, a big silicone net behind the top case.
That makes sense because it's easier to mantain it fixed than 64 individual membranes.

 

[deeddawg]

Why does Apple have such a hard time admitting that it screwed up?

"Our bad. We'll fix your keyboards for free if they have the problem. Here's what we did to improve reliability going forward."

That's all they have to do. Instead they dance around it and are all mysterious and don't tell us anything.

TALK TO US, APPLE. Everyone makes mistakes, even big companies. At least fess up and admit that you *FIXED* the problem!

You can thank the class-action lawsuits for Apple's silence on the matter.

 

[theluggage]

How can so many people complain about crumbs and other particles getting into their keyboards and under the keys and then complain that it is the fault of Apple? Take some responsibility for your own actions.

(courtesy xkcd.com)

So, after nearly 40 years of advances in personal computing, suddenly we have to start worrying about keyboard hygiene? The pictures from iFixit clearly show the new keyboard mechanism being paralysed by a tiny bit of grit of the sort that the typical keyboard is full of.

I've been eating my lunch while using my 2011 MBP since 2011. My Apple Wired Keyboard w/Numeric pad is crying out "clean me". Both keyboards still work perfectly. I've worked with a dozen Mac users and between them the only failures on the 2010-2015-style scissor-mechanism keyboards have been down to whole cups of coffee/glasses of wine being poured over them. Those keyboards were among the best low-profile keyboards ever made, everyone I knew was happy with them, Apple's competitors copied them - and now Apple have thrown them under the bus just to brag about being 1mm thinner than Dell (or, more likely, they're just cheaper to make, which is inexcusable on a $2000-$3000 laptop).

Worse, this is on a laptop that maybe, just maybe, you'll want to use outside of your OCD dust-free home environment.

Its true - "worse" really is the new "better".

 

[NoIdentity]

Does this really fix the issue? It look like there's a way for debris to get under there - and maybe worse - it looks like it might trap unwanted debris in there...

I have to say this is a good observation. There are other things to consider with this silicone membrane, how will it change over time? If you are concerned what happens after 4 years, this are some valid consideration. Unfortunately this designs seems a bit half thought out.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

So what happened with all that membrane is for making the keys quieter BS? Erbody and they momma knew it was for blocking particulate ingress. Quieter keys was just a fortunate consequence. Why all the subterfuge?

Because to admit that the new design fixes a design flaw, would be to admit that the previous generation has a design flaw. That opens them up to liabilities in the court system. Better to knowingly lie, and hope that the problem goes away.

This, by the way, is the reason that society is declining. Nobody - not companies, politicians, or even your neighbor apologizing for running over your flowers - can be truthful without fear of being sued.

 

[1252]

Retrofit to 15" MBP 2015?

 

[lec0rsaire]

You may buy computers based on looks, but most people use their computers to do actual work. I only buy Macs for macOS, I don't care what the computer looks like. Designers are not engineers. A computer should be made by engineers and then you tell the designer to make it nice. Right now, the designer is making the case and the engineers are forced to work within the constraints of the case. It's not thinking different, it's thinking backwards.

Right now, I'm waiting to see what kind of "low-cost laptop" Apple is going to release to replace the MacBook Air (according to rumours), but I'll have to decide between a 2015-2017 MacBook Air or that new one. No way am I buying a MacBook or MacBook Pro. And since the new laptop will probably have a butterfly keyboard, that means MacBook Air. But without a future upgrade path, I might as well start looking elsewhere and start using Linux since Apple cares more about their bank account and the fashion statement of their hardware.

In what world does caring about design mean that you don’t care about doing work?

Notebooks never really had much of an upgrade path. The ability to upgrade from mechanical to SSD providing such a dramatic boost was a once in a lifetime thing. But if this is a deal breaker then the Dell XPS is an alternative.

 

[shadowmatt]

So dieter Bohn says Apple says... that’s hearsay. Macrumors says they “declined” to answer the question. And all dieter said was “wasn’t designed to solve those issues” which is ambiguous. It was designed to be quieter and also happens to solve the issue?

In any event, Apple made no public statements or verified private statements about the membrane.

Im taking what the press was told, at the press conference hosted by Apple, where they discussed the new keyboards. These are public statements.

As it was reported by a reporter, who is trusted by both Apple ( wouldn't get an invite otherwise ), his employer and his readers I take it as more than just rumour.

 

[Soccertess]

Great, so they basically admitted that the last generation had problems with debris ingestion that was solved or atleast mitigated with the 2018 MBP - BUT - us with last years model are sorely stuck with the crappier design, even if we get a free service at any Apple store, we still only get another one of the crappier design that in time also most likely will fail.

I feel so great being stuck with a 2017 fully loaded MBP with several keys not working and the B key repeating 2-3 presses with every press.

Sure, things get updated and improved all the time but leaving us stranded on an isolated island when there is solution to the problem is kinda crappy

Well, I think the 2018 still have a design flaw. The condom has a hole in it. It will stop a portion of it, but dust, crumbs and stuff will still get threw the hole no?

So there are those unlucky people who will still face a huge key board replacement costs (someone quoted 700 on here I think) if they are unlucky the condom doesn’t work. They should make the keys easily replaceable, not just from an environmental point of you but also from a reapirabilty perspective. But I guess Tim wants his bonus again, and still wants to gouge some people

 

[neutralguy]

This is a silly comment. Ive is one of the most talented designers alive. He is the reason why everything Apple releases looks so much better than the crap everyone else makes.

I am not so sure about that. I have not seen him bring out something amazing after Steve Jobs death. I think he worked well under Steve's vision.