Apple Confirms It Shut Down iMessage for Android App Beeper Mini

[msackey]

"Anticompetitive" in what way? Apple built and maintains a service that costs them money. They pay for it by selling other products and services. Have these clowns offered to pay Apple for the use of their servers? (That's not even getting into the security issues.)

Over at Twitter, I’ve been reading the tweets (or are they ex’s? LOL) of the Beeper CEO (Eric) where he and many of his supporters say things like this:

We’re just trying to get iMessages onto Android so others can use it. What so bad about that? iMessages is forcing Android not to be able to communicate Apple users.​

​

Or variations of some strange logic. I think a lot of those Eric fanpeople are misguided. But nevertheless I still want to really understand a broader view of what’s going on.

What I don’t get is this: you can think of iMessage as an app like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and the like. No one is asking WhatsApp or Signal to open up their messaging system so that, for example, you can use WhatsApp (think of that as like Android) to directly message into Signal. Furthermore, if such a hack were made, I can’t imagine drumming up support to say that this is a legitimate form (i.e., it isn’t an underground method) and therefore should be supported. I can see this being a hack and instead of so openly announcing itself, it’ll continue to be somewhat on the down low and through underground community, keep fixing the feature when it breaks.

So I guess I’m really thinking about a number of things that I find interestingly bizarre:
No one is asking Signal or Telegram to open up. And, if a company tried to, I think they’d be laughed down because people are going to see Signal messaging system as its own legitimate form of closed communication system. iMessage isn’t even exactly closed. Yes, for the blue bubbles it’s closed, but you can still message those people in iMessage; it’ll just be SMS. (We can set aside whether SMS is still a good form of communication; that’s another debate.)

And furthermore, the Beeper CEO is drumming up support on Twitter to basically say that hacking into iMessage is a legitimate form that should be openly supported and “we will prevail”. This is interestingly bizarre.

I’m not anti-hacking. I’m not even really the kind of person who begins with “follow the rules” premise. What I find interesting is that this hacker (or hacker of a company) wants to engage in hacking but not call it hacking. I’m not a hacker but as I understand it, hacker culture has typically seen itself as underground and never wanted to be too much aligned as mainstream. Meanwhile, you have this Eric guy who not only is hacking, but also wants to be legitimized in the mainstream. A bizarre turn of hacker culture, it seems.

How does one understand that?

 

[6787872]

They pay for it by selling other products and services. Have these clowns offered to pay Apple for the use of their servers?

is this an option apple has made available in the first place?

no? ok, then, it's their own fault.

 

[msackey]

is this an option apple has made available in the first place?

no? ok, then, it's their own fault.

Following your logic, would it be ok then for an external party to hack into the Signal or WhatsApp messaging system and make a business out of that by selling that service? Genuinely asking.

 

[toobravetosave]

Following your logic, would it be ok then for an external party to hack into the Signal or WhatsApp messaging system and make a business out of that by selling that service? Genuinely asking.

Doesn't WhatsApp use the signal protocol which is open source?

 

[Abazigal]

So the CEO used to work at Pebble. I thought I found his name familiar.

Nothing meaningful to add here that hasn't already been said.

 

[jdavid_rp]

What I don’t get is this: you can think of iMessage as an app like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and the like. No one is asking WhatsApp or Signal to open up their messaging system so that, for example, you can use WhatsApp (think of that as like Android) to directly message into Signal.

Well, UE is actually asking for inter connectivity between the popular messaging apps. If I’m well informed, small devs would be able to ask big ones (Meta, Telegram, etc) and they should provide tools to be able to inter connect both messaging apps

 

[toobravetosave]

So the CEO used to work at Pebble. I thought I found his name familiar.

Nothing meaningful to add here that hasn't already been said.

I'd use a time round over every current smartwatch offering. Too bad they went down

 

[iBluetooth]

The only reason they did this was to kill Beeper, not because of the security breach

It is a security weakness and now well publicized. They would be incompetent not to plug this. How can you know this?

 

[msackey]

Doesn't WhatsApp use the signal protocol which is open source?

Does it? I legitimately don’t know. But regardless, can one use WhatsApp to text into Signal? I don’t think so.

Being open source is different from hacking into one’s communication system, isn’t it?

 

[emmab2006]

if green bubble users want a blue one , buy a damn iPhone. and don't use some dodgy workaround.

 

[msackey]

Well, UE is actually asking for inter connectivity between the popular messaging apps. If I’m well informed, small devs would be able to ask big ones (Meta, Telegram, etc) and they should provide tools to be able to inter connect both messaging apps

Is that what the aim is? I’d like to read a source on that.

So this extends my question. Are we then saying forcing a company to have an API is legitimate? Do we expect that of all programs regardless whether it’s a communication tool or not. Does API exist for Signal, etc.?

 

[Lyrics23]

Following your logic, would it be ok then for an external party to hack into the Signal or WhatsApp messaging system and make a business out of that by selling that service? Genuinely asking.

I just see it as a value-added service, just like people buy plugins and extensions to other apps and programs, and have done for decades.

In this case I wouldn’t use it because 1) Security 2) Thankfully everyone outside the US uses a cross-platform messaging app anyway.

But I really see no issue with someone providing a service that Apple themselves won’t provide. Though neither do I see issue with Apple blocking it when it’s within their capability to do so.

To only real issue is that there’s currently no modern standard messaging protocol that allows interoperability between all users. RCS will go some way towards correcting that, but it’s not perfect.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Apple would have been foolish and possibly liable (down the road) if they didn't put a stop to this.

 

[TimFL1]

Over at Twitter, I’ve been reading the tweets (or are they ex’s? LOL) of the Beeper CEO (Eric) where he and many of his supporters say things like this:

We’re just trying to get iMessages onto Android so others can use it. What so bad about that? iMessages is forcing Android not to be able to communicate Apple users.​

​

Or variations of some strange logic. I think a lot of those Eric fanpeople are misguided. But nevertheless I still want to really understand a broader view of what’s going on.

What I don’t get is this: you can think of iMessage as an app like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and the like. No one is asking WhatsApp or Signal to open up their messaging system so that, for example, you can use WhatsApp (think of that as like Android) to directly message into Signal. Furthermore, if such a hack were made, I can’t imagine drumming up support to say that this is a legitimate form (i.e., it isn’t an underground method) and therefore should be supported. I can see this being a hack and instead of so openly announcing itself, it’ll continue to be somewhat on the down low and through underground community, keep fixing the feature when it breaks.

So I guess I’m really thinking about a number of things that I find interestingly bizarre:
No one is asking Signal or Telegram to open up. And, if a company tried to, I think they’d be laughed down because people are going to see Signal messaging system as its own legitimate form of closed communication system. iMessage isn’t even exactly closed. Yes, for the blue bubbles it’s closed, but you can still message those people in iMessage; it’ll just be SMS. (We can set aside whether SMS is still a good form of communication; that’s another debate.)

And furthermore, the Beeper CEO is drumming up support on Twitter to basically say that hacking into iMessage is a legitimate form that should be openly supported and “we will prevail”. This is interestingly bizarre.

I’m not anti-hacking. I’m not even really the kind of person who begins with “follow the rules” premise. What I find interesting is that this hacker (or hacker of a company) wants to engage in hacking but not call it hacking. I’m not a hacker but as I understand it, hacker culture has typically seen itself as underground and never wanted to be too much aligned as mainstream. Meanwhile, you have this Eric guy who not only is hacking, but also wants to be legitimized in the mainstream. A bizarre turn of hacker culture, it seems.

How does one understand that?

It‘s absolutely top notch bizzaro mode. I read through a few threads about this earlier today and it boggles my mind how anyone can be pro-Beeper mini in this case and call Apple the bad ones.

Should Apple do something about messaging interoperability (e.g. release an official Android app for iMessage or support RCS)? Yes, absolutely. It‘s a disgrace to their costumers that it‘s taking them this long to „fix cross-platform messaging“ for their userbase.

Is Beeper mini, the app that uses reverse engineered knowledge, performing unauthorized usage of Apples IP by piggybacking off of the iMessage service the answer? Absolutely not. Anyone with an IQ of 75+ should be able to tell that this is incredibly stupid, even borderline insane to charge a monthly fee for.

I put Beeper mini on the same tier as subbing to Netflix and co. and then ripping content or broadcasting it on other platforms while offering your own streaming sub. Makes you wonder how the company behind the app even functions and whether they even have any employees with a background in law and finances employed.

Yes I know about grey areas like reverse engineering for the sake of interoperability, it‘s still incredibly pushing by them to pull this off (especially in the light of RCS on Apple devices in 2024).

Disclaimer: I own a plethora of Apple devices and call myself an Apple fan (not fanboy, as I‘ve been very vocal about Apple being anti-consumer in terms of iMessage over the last decade on here… I‘ve been calling them out for not supporting RCS yearly via their official feedback channels). Also, iMessage only exists in spirit in my region, so the whole blue / green bubble agenda doesn‘t exist for me.

 

[msackey]

In this case I wouldn’t use it because 1) Security 2) Thankfully everyone outside the US uses a cross-platform messaging app anyway.

Yeah they use a cross platform messaging app but not cross messaging app. In other words, only Signal can communicate with another Signal app.

One can kinda argue that iMessage is a cross platform app too because it’ll just default to text if it can’t ”blue bubble”.

But I really see no issue with someone providing a service that Apple themselves won’t provide. Though neither do I see issue with Apple blocking it when it’s within their capability to do so.

So no API is offered and the method used was a hack to disguise identity into fooling servers to think that’s an Apple device. If you think that’s legitimate then ok. Good to know from what premise you’re coming from.

To only real issue is that there’s currently no modern standard messaging protocol that allows interoperability between all users. RCS will go some way towards correcting that, but it’s not perfect.

Yeah no modern one. SMS and MMS were the standards

 

[msackey]

So the CEO used to work at Pebble. I thought I found his name familiar.

Nothing meaningful to add here that hasn't already been said.

Hey that’s an interesting nugget. I’ve been trying to read up on a little bit more about that CEO’s background. I haven’t really dug deeply though. I just read some of his threads on Twitter

 

[ReliableSource]

Don’t steal iMessage.

 

[Elusi]

Has this whole thing affected hackintoshes ability to use icloud services?

Real macs with OCLP for that matter, are they still good? I guess those have "real" credentials but idk maybe Apple could be tightening security in such a way where they get the boot anyway.

 

[rorschach]

is this an option apple has made available in the first place?

no? ok, then, it's their own fault.

No, it's not "their own fault". Apple not offering an API isn't a license for anyone to hack together a workaround and then make money off of it.

 

[bsolar]

Following your logic, would it be ok then for an external party to hack into the Signal or WhatsApp messaging system and make a business out of that by selling that service? Genuinely asking.

Define "hacking into the messaging system". Beeper reverse-engineered a protocol (which is legal) and interacted with public-facing services (which again is legal). They were not "hacking into" any system.

 

[DMG35]

I mean I don’t really care if Android users get iMessage, in fact I’d be fine with it. What is surprising is how brash the company was in doing this. They blasted it out through social media and almost dared Apple to shut them down.

 

[Minato1990]

Good
Keep these nasty green bubble users out our beautiful ecosystem Apple.
Hopefully Apple obliterates that company

 

[icolove]

It was obviously going to happen pretty quickly. Apple cares more about their ecosystem lock-in than anything regarding privacy or usability.

 

[Ludatyk]

So I guess I’m really thinking about a number of things that I find interestingly bizarre:
No one is asking Signal or Telegram to open up. And, if a company tried to, I think they’d be laughed down because people are going to see Signal messaging system as its own legitimate form of closed communication system. iMessage isn’t even exactly closed. Yes, for the blue bubbles it’s closed, but you can still message those people in iMessage; it’ll just be SMS. (We can set aside whether SMS is still a good form of communication; that’s another debate.)

You make a good point, but the messaging apps you listed can be used on other platforms… iMessage is tied to only Apple devices.

 

[msackey]

Define "hacking into the messaging system". Beeper reverse-engineered a protocol (which is legal) and interacted with public-facing services (which again is legal). They were not "hacking into" any system.

Maybe I misunderstand, but doesn’t the Beeper system disguise identity of a message and pretends to be an Apple device? That’s hacking.