Apple Continues to Work on All-New Mac Pro With Upgradeable Design

[AcesHigh87]

My #1 feature request:

An affordable base model users can configure as to their needs. i.e. I don't want to pay for dual GPUs I won't ever use!



Just reboot the 2012 cheese grater in a smaller case with USB 3, TB 3, and SSD slots and take my money!

Who even needs the smaller case? I think the 2010 Mac Pro is a perfect size case. It’s a Pro machine, I don’t want or need it sitting on my desk.

 

[imacalot]

Base model starting at $13K

 

[BurgDog]

I expect the minimum configured base unit without display will be $3500 similar to 2013 Mac Pro with a $1500 display option so total cost will be similar to iMac Pro buying both in cost and performance. That is in line with windows workstation prices for similar performance. Basically splitting the monitor and computer section of the current iMac Pro into two units. Apple used to make the Mac Mini from the guts of the Macbook pro. Could still do that to get a lower level version.

What I want is workstation level reliability and cooling and no noise. I'll pay more for that even without having a business use for a computer. Performance to handbrake in reasonable times with no noise is why I love my current nMP but I wish I had an option for the new monitors which is why I am looking at the iMac Pro.

 

[melendezest]

So wait for the Modular Mac Pro. I've been wanting something like that for about 30 years.

I haven't been waiting that long, but now that:

a. My (3 teens') eyes are on gaming
b. Apple is sealing/soldering EVERYTHING up
c. Apple's increasingly pushing towards the luxury market
d. I've been waiting for something...ANYTHING to buy from them since 2012 and gotten bupkis
e. I've been using Windows 10 for work and find it is actually decent

...the modular Mac Pro better blow me away. My feet are both already out the door, but I'm holding the door open. It'll take a miracle to make me come back in.

 

[subjonas]

I'm pretty sure Apple could have taken the old Mac Pro aluminum chassis and thrown in a new, modern system board with a few m.2 pci-e connectors and the latest/greatest ports sticking out the back, a dual XEON CPU tray that takes the latest/greatest XEONS, and it would have been affordable and would have sold like hotcakes. Instead, we'll get some super-expensive, art museum like design that no one (except "Pros") can afford.

Same chassis, new parts, throw in a space grey option, and baby, you got a stew going!

 

[mattynat]

They really need to pick up the low end desktop with the Mini.

I've got two young kids and there is no way in hell I let them within an arm's reach of my rMBP. I would get them a mini if the specs didn't completely suck at this point. I don't mind that the design hasn't changed, but that there hasn't been even the slightest followup with the specs is problematic.

I am not one of those all-in-one people. A really good display can last for a decade or more. The Thunderbolt Display I bought in 2012 has been going strong for more than 5 years, and I expect it to go for at least another 5, if not 10.

What do your "two young kids" do that a Mac mini wouldn't be able to handle?

 

[JeffPerrin]

Who even needs the smaller case? I think the 2010 Mac Pro is a perfect size case. It’s a Pro machine, I don’t want or need it sitting on my desk.

You're right - let me rephrase:

"Just reboot the 2012 cheese grater in a case optimized for USB 3, TB 3, and SSD slots and take my money!"

I'm love my 2012 MP, but I just don't see Apple re-releasing a case originally designed for 3.5" and optical drives...

//

 

[melendezest]

Innovation ALWAYS has its hits and misses. And when someone like Apple goes FAR outside of the safe-zone, like with the G4 Cube and the Cylinder, then the "misses" become even more apparent.

But the BIGGEST reason that the Mac Pro DIDN'T mark another industrial-design era, with the usual Me-too companies like Dell, HP, Acer rushing to spit-out their own "Cylinders", was for ONE reason: Industry's refusal to adopt Thunderbolt. THAT alone made the Cylinder, which, if you think about it, WAS supposed to be a "Modular" Mac, into somewhat of a lonely island.

That may be partially true, but I'm not buying it as the sole reason.

PCs needed to be flexible, and the tubes just aren't as a form factor.

Thus I believe one of the main reasons Apple didn't drive the industry is GAMING. Another is that Microsoft was and is innovating as well, releasing what Apple refuses to and giving people real alternatives.

But Apple jumped the gun too far ahead with the tube, just like they did with last year's TB MBP. It was a misstep that can and has cost them customers. Although they were smart with the TB MBP, they kept selling the previous model alonside the new, just like they did with the cMBP to Retina MBP transition for a year, I believe.

But the iOS division is so profitable that Tim wants to mimic its successes on the Mac side, and is trying to implement it by making the machines simpler/easier/cheaper to manufacture, and expensive for the users to upgrade and replace.

I predict this plan will fail long-term, and perhaps they noticed too, so they're backpedaling hard trying to keep people from jumping ship by speaking on a future product; something Apple has NEVER done.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

I agree. Especially as lots of Pros basically need iMac Pro specs in a box they can plug a monitor in to. With parts that are user replaceable. If Jony Ive designed the Apple Watch case in like a month, why is this difficult?

If the Apple MacPro does not blow away the "iMac Pro", then the whole "Pro" line ends up looking ridiculous. That being said the "Mac Pro" had better start at a price point half that of the "iMac Pro", which is too high.

Well, since it won't be including a $1200 monitor, it probably will START around $3k, which is quite reasonable for a workstation-class machine. But then, Katie bar the door at the high end, just like those HP Z8s that all the Haters have been crowing-about these past couple of days...

 

[Michael Scrip]

Er, they really don't.

Because they've just been churning out incremental upgrades, year-after-year, in the same, tired form-factors.

Wow... tired form-factors. Yet they work. In fact... it's what many (most?) people want... a tower.

Do you ever wonder why Dell, HP and others don't adopt a crazy design? Like maybe a cylinder?

How about this... Apple still sells a Mac Pro today with 2013 parts in it. #fail

So yeah... I'm gonna have to side with Dell and HP on this one. They use a standard tower form-factor, with upgradability and expandability, with normal PCIe cards, RAM, etc... and yearly updates. That last part is key.

I know you're trying to make Dell and HP seem lazy and uninspiring... but functionality sells in the workstation market.

Apple tried to "rock the boat" in the workstation market... and look where it got 'em...

They started selling a Mac Pro in 2013 and they're STILL selling it with 2018 just around the corner.

So you tell me who got it wrong...

 

[melendezest]

Why not just make those external? Makes things easier, especially with cooling. Too bad Apple seems to hate Nvidia. Dunno if it's only where I am, but everyone I know doing ML research uses CUDA exclusively. Also too bad the open source libs like PyTorch and Tensorflow are not totally portable and only work with CUDA without hassle in Linux. So, the build I always see is custom Linux PC w/ 1-4 GTX 1080Ti cards.

EXACTLY.

Not having the option to use NVIDIA cards will probably start to hurt in terms of potential customers.

I really hope that Apple has finally pulled their heads out, but the iMac Pro is not reassuring me of this.

 

[Skoal]

I had to scroll all the way to the second page before I saw an even slightly positive comment. Lol this forum cracks me up with the negativity.

 

[melendezest]

Wow... tired form-factors. Yet they work. In fact... it's what many (most?) people want... a tower.

Do you ever wonder why Dell, HP and others don't adopt a crazy design? Like maybe a cylinder?

How about this... Apple still sells a Mac Pro today with 2013 parts in it. #fail

So yeah... I'm gonna have to side with Dell and HP on this one. They use a standard tower form-factor, with upgradability and expanability, with normal PCIe cards, RAM, etc... and yearly updates. That last part is key.

I know you're trying to make Dell and HP seem lazy and uninspiring... but functionality sells in the workstation market.

Apple tried to "rock the boat" in the workstation market... and look where it got 'em...

They announced the Mac Pro in 2013... and 2018 is just around the corner.

So you tell me who got it wrong...

THIS. So much THIS!!

There are a bazillion PC form factors out there, but interoperability and standards are the key. The PC industry has been innovating in this area, while supporting such standards.

The computer industry is effectively mature. If you want to be adventorous then that's fine (see Surface Studio), but produce standard stuff too.

Apple is so stuck in the one-size-fits-all and take-it-or-leave-it mentality that it's driving even long-time fans like me away.

 

[kildraik]

So what do I do with the $13,000 iMac Pro that I just bought?

Use it. You’ll be fine for a long while.

 

[melendezest]

I had to scroll all the way to the second page before I saw an even slightly positive comment. Lol this forum cracks me up with the negativity.

And Apple has earned every inch of it with their ludicrous "Pro" machines.

People are thirsty and impatient for Apple to provide something actually good: a REAL computer.

 

[cult hero]

To me, this is easily the most interesting thing that Apple has coming, which is funny because I have zero interest in actually owning one. (As of now I have zero need for anything that's not a laptop.) However, I have a feeling the "modularity" is going to involve a faster generation of Thunderbolt which means laptops and a potentially refreshed Mini will be able to take advantage of some of the offerings.

Something like SLI in eGPU, for instance, would be pretty damn cool.

Obviously, I'm really hoping the modularity will benefit more than just the new Pro.
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And Apple has earned every inch of it with their ludicrous "Pro" machines.

People are thirsty and impatient for Apple to provide something actually good: a REAL computer.

Hmmm... I guess I'm really amazed at what I'm able to accomplish with a fake computer these days.

 

[Music Ambulance]

So what do I do with the $13,000 iMac Pro that I just bought?

Enjoy it

 

[kildraik]

Rumor of an upcoming upgradeable Mac Trashcan Pro? Oh noes!! This rumor will totally kill potential enthusiasm and sales of the already-announced iMac Pro!

The executives announced working on a modular Mac Pro months ago. Those purchasing an iMac Pro today have the knowledge they need to make an informed decision. Sheesh.

 

[ChrisA]

I just bought an HP workstation that came off-lease. 64GB of ECC RAM, 12-core Xeon and 2 PCIe slots. I put in a new nVidia GPU card and an SSD. I don't have a monitor connected I use my 27" 2012 vintage iMac. I have $1,200 invested and it is VERY fast, pretty much nothing takes much time. My use case is machine learning

These previous generation HP workstations are the best deals I've found. No I can't run Apple software on it but for developers it's what I'm recommending now.

 

[Mal Blackadder]

I have to disagree to an extent. Pro class hardware use to come in all sorts of shapes. Back in the day Suns pizza box sized machines where very popular. Further todays much smaller hardware cries out for new form factors. The massive towers of the past simply aren't needed to deliver Pro like features. It is very possible these days to put a high performance machine into a half rack width in a 2-3U high box. That box might only be 18" deep. Things like storage expansion can be taken care of by an array of sockets for SSD cards along one edge of the housing. 4-6 storage expansion slots would take up very little space so artainged.

A GPU card is also easy as they can be extremely small these days. You can easily fit one of AMDs HBM based chips on a motherboard and still have room for a PCI Express slot.

In many ways the focus on towers of the past is misguided. The current Mac Pro implemented a lot of good concepts, that it came up shirt for some users is no surprise as no machine is perfect. The short comings are however easy to address without resorting to a massive tower.


Here is the thing, if Apple does make a massively huge machine and expensive, it will only be of interest to a few people world wide. Apple can't sustain a platform that is only of interest to media professoonals. The volume simply isn't there to push development. The old Macs of the past pretty much prove this and have put us into the current situation. In the end a platform that starts at $5000 shuts out to many pro users. For a Mac Pro redesign to be successful the platform must cover a far wider array of users than it has over the last ten years. Otherwise history will Repeat itself. We will see a debut surge from people with more cents than brains and then a rapid decline in sales because most people see the Mac Pros as very poor values.

In the end it is about product breadth because there simply isn't enough top end sales to move a Mac Pro.

I think the reason why towers became almost standard shape for desktop computers is they used less desk space than pizza box style machines, I remember the Sun ones they were mostly used as client machines they weren't the full blown workstations like Suns other machines, though the sunblade 100 and 150 were about the size of a compaq presario machine of the same vintage, but the more powerful workstations were a tower configuration , I also remember those machines didn't need too much in the way of cooling unlike todays CPUs, and yes there are some quite smallish graphics cards these days that will fit in a mini ITX style build they generally tend to be lower end to mid range GPUs, and as you point out you could integrate a AMD HMB based chip onto a motherboard but again it will need cooling, most top end GPUs have heat sinks that cover not just the GPU chip itself but also the memory chips and other chips on that board. A professional workstation does not need to look svelte and pretty it needs to be powerful and perform well at full load without thermal throttling kicking in and the most efficient way of doing that is a tower machine, you can point out that the current trashcan mac pro was a powerful machine and was small, but when newer faster components came out they couldn't be used in that design because those components ran hotter, with a tower design you don't have that problem.

Look at Mercedes motor company they make some beautiful looking cars, but they also make trucks, and you pick which you need to meet your requirements. The first requirement of a professional workstation is to be able to do the job as quickly as possible, the aesthetics of the machine should not hinder that.
[doublepost=1513373494][/doublepost]

Yes, agreed.

Apple over think. Deliver the hardware. I seriously question those people who prefer Form over Function - I would suggest they don't really want the performance that comes with such a machine, instead, would prefer some candy eye on their desk. ( Personally, my desktop is on the floor. I don't give a crap what it looks like, as long as it delivers the necessary performance ).

I totally agree with you.

 

[Larry-K]

When it was introduced the Mac Pro, they bragged how the thermal cooling worked.

That's the Apple way, brag about something, then abandon it, then quietly discontinue it.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

I’ve been saying for years and I’ll say it again: give us new components in a 2012 style case and pros will lose their minds.

What exactly does this mean? It means standard connections that can be bought and installed without needing Apple to do it. It means PCIe lanes that we can install what we want in. It means all major components being user upgradable post-purchase. I would accept the CPU being limited on that last one so it’s harder but still.

Will we get this? Probably not because that’s not how Apple works anymore but this is what pros want. We’ll gladly spend $15k+ on a machine that we know will be a workhorse for the next 5-10 years. What we don’t want is a trash can that’s garbage from the start and can’t realistically be upgraded in any way. I don’t care what size it is (it sitsin a rack anyway) or what colour it is or how many proprietary ports they can squeeze in. I care about a proper workstation that can be properly maintained. This is what Pros want. If they take the iMac Pro components and pop them into a 2010 case I will be forever happy.

Then your path forward is clear: Build a Hackintosh.

You best believe that Apple watches the Hackintosh community like a hawk, and if it REALLY started to take-off, two things would immediately happen:

1. Apple would lock-down macOS solid, using some sort of Trusted Computing hardware on the mobo.

2. There would soon be a tower Mac again.

But since Apple sees that the pirating of macOS and the interest in Hackintosh forums hovers in the .5% world, as far as loss-of-sales-revenue goes, they haven't done any of the above.

So, what I am really saying is, once you get away from the internet forums, out in the REAL world, the REAL interest in a classic-tower Mac is actually pretty damned small.

 

[TheTruth101]

I love Mac Pros but today I can't find use for one. Ver small niche. I think the iMac Pro filled that gap. It would be over kill to have one, if you are doing 3D better go with a PC. If you are doing video editing you are all set with an iMac Pro. If you need a server... use a PC again.

 

[Macatize]

With the iMac Pro release dominating headlines on Thursday, we want to highlight that Apple also reiterated some other exciting news for pro customers: a modular Mac Pro is in the works.

2013 Mac Pro on left vs. 2012 Mac Pro on right​

The brief mention came at the very end of Apple's press release about the iMac Pro becoming available to order:While this isn't new information, it does let us know that Apple remains committed to an all-new, powerful Mac Pro with an upgradeable design after first teasing the news to a group of reporters back in April.

We don't know what the new Mac Pro will look like, but given it will be a modular system, Apple could return to a tower design like the 2006 to 2012 Mac Pro with a case that could be opened with a lever on the back.

The promise that it will be a high-performance, high-throughput system suggests the modular Mac Pro could be even faster than the iMac Pro, which itself is easily the fastest Mac ever with workstation-class tech specs.

The maxed-out iMac Pro, for example, costs $13,199 and is equipped with an 18-core 2.3GHz Intel Xeon W-class processor, 4TB of SSD storage, 128GB of ECC RAM, and AMD Radeon Pro Vega 64 graphics with 16GB of HBM2 memory.

It's also good news for customers who were sad to see Apple discontinue its standalone Thunderbolt Display, which will be revived in the form of an all-new Apple-branded high-end display geared towards pro customers.

Apple's discontinued Thunderbolt Display​

What we also don't know is when the new Mac Pro is coming. Apple only revealed that it wouldn't be ready this year. It could certainly be released at some point in 2018, or it could take a little bit longer--it's anyone's guess right now.

Apple hasn't updated the current Mac Pro in just shy of four years, beyond reshuffling some configurations and pricing back in April.

At the time, Apple's software engineering chief Craig Federighi admitted that the 2013 Mac Pro's so-called "trash can" design has a limited thermal capacity that doesn't always meet the needs of the most demanding workflows.

"I think we designed ourselves into a bit of a thermal corner, if you will," said Federighi, according to multiple reports.

It isn't often that Apple pre-announces new products in its pipeline, but there were growing concerns the company was no longer focused on professional users, evidently to the point that it felt the need to respond in a big way.

"We're committed to the Mac, we've got great talent on the Mac, both hardware and software, we've got great products planned for the future, and as far as our horizon line can see, the Mac is a core component of the things Apple delivers, including to our pro customers," said Apple's marketing chief Phil Schiller.

Article Link: Apple Continues to Work on All-New Mac Pro With Upgradeable Design

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

That's the Apple way, brag about something, then abandon it, then quietly discontinue it.

Apple doesn't have a Patent on THAT Playbook!

EVERY "tech"-driven company sings the same tune...