Apple Continues to Work on All-New Mac Pro With Upgradeable Design

[PickUrPoison]

Ironically, Turi Create requires CUDA if you want GPU acceleration.

I think the new Mac Pro will be available from Apple with nVIDIA GPU(s?). At least I hope so.

Why should those that need CUDA be forced to use an eGPU? Doesn’t really make sense. Was hoping for the same for iMac Pro, actually. But an eGPU is more tolerable for the iMac Pro target market.

Those who require the flexibility and upgradability of the modular MacPro are the same type of users who won’t want to settle for the performance hit that a TB3-connected eGPU imposes. I also want to see support for two internal GPUs.

 

[ocnitsa]

Chill out dude, I'm just saying that these are definitely geared more to enterprise and niche markets.

But you said that and then implied to the other guy the design for the old tower systems looked bad. If it’s an enterprise or niche market who cares about the aesthetic design?
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Somehow, I don’t think Apple’s definition of “modular” is going to mean what people here think it means.

For once, I agree.

 

[danielwsmithee]

I think the new Mac Pro will be available from Apple with nVIDIA GPU(s?). At least I hope so.

Why should those that need CUDA be forced to use an eGPU? Doesn’t really make sense. Was hoping for the same for iMac Pro, actually. But an eGPU is more tolerable for the iMac Pro target market.

Those who require the flexibility and upgradability of the modular MacPro are the same type of users who won’t want to settle for the performance hit that a TB3-connected eGPU imposes. I also want to see support for two internal GPUs.

At this point I will be suprised if Apple offers an option with an NVIDIA. They seam to be fully in the AMD camper which OpenCL & Metal run better on. It woudn’t suprise me at all if those that want NVIDIA will need to buy the cheapest GPU option and replace it, but maybe I’m wrong.

 

[asdavis10]

There are so many logical fallacies in this argument. I get the preference for having a traditional tower that you can store everything internally, but argueing that having an updated Mac Pro is going to be cheaper than an iMac Pro in the long run is way off base. For all components you’ve listed there isn’t a single one besides possibly the display that makes very much sense.

• Keyboard/Mouse - the iMac Pro’s slate gray keyboard, mouse and track-pad are already in such high demand you could easily buy an iMac Pro and resale the keyboard, mouse and trackpad at substantial profit. I’m almost certain these could easily be resold on eBay after purchase for $75 for the mouse, $100-$150 for the keyboard, and $150-$200 for the trackpad. When the iMac Pro was first shown, those are things that many got excited about.
• Display - you said yourself you’d likely get a new display eventually for the Mac Pro. Why not just keep your current display and use it with the iMac Pro. Most people that work seriously on their computers that I know of find a single display cumbersome even when it is is a nice as the 5K display in the iMac.
• Storage Components - TB3/USBC enclosure are cheap. For the money you’d get from selling the mouse/keyboard/trackpad you could easily buy a nice 4-6 bay TB3 enclosure.

Ultimately I think you are hoping for Mac Pro that is not going to be anything like what Apple will provide. Apple has already shown they are completely on board with Thunderbolt for expansion. They’ve also said that the new Mac Pro is going to be for the most demanding workloads. I see one of two scenarios for the new Mac Pro and neither one of them will fit with what your describe.

1. Apple releases a new Mac Pro that looks a lot more like the trash can Mac Pro than the cheese grater one. It will continue to use TB expansion for everything except RAM, NVMe slots, and possibly a GPU. I highly doubt the new Mac Pro will have any SATA or SAS port internally, those are legacy interfaces now that would have died off 5 years ago if intel/Apple and even Dell and HP had their way.
2. The new Mac Pro will likely be based on a dual or quad socket Xeon design, and the price will likely start at $7500+ without the keyboard mouse or display. That is the type of computer they mean when they say it will be designed for the most demanding workloads.

I also wouldn’t be suprised if Apple pushes really hard into the eGPU realm with an update to TB4, and support for their own eGPU enclosure, something that would benefit all their pro machines (MBP, iMac Pro, and a new Mac Pro). Just my 2 cents.

You hit the nail on the head. I also can't see SATA or SAS in the new Mac Pro. But I actually think it will start at the same $4,999 (or maybe $1,000 more) as the iMac Pro. The differentiator is that it doesn't have a display. But will have more computing power. I think the modular nature of it won't be exactly like what people are thinking. It will be a mix if some internal and some external (especially GPU).

 

[danielwsmithee]

You hit the nail on the head. I also can't see SATA or SAS in the new Mac Pro. But I actually think it will start at the same $4,999 (or maybe $1,000 more) as the iMac Pro. The differentiator is that it doesn't have a display. But will have more computing power. I think the modular nature of it won't be exactly like what people are thinking. It will be a mix if some internal and some external (especially GPU).

Yup, I could see that base price. No way it will be cheaper than the iMac Pro though.

My guess is they continue with an all NVMe design with no SATA or SAS drive bays, figure out a way to make GPU easily and regularly upgradeable along with the CPU, RAM, NVMe. It will be substantially smaller than a typical desktop tower.

 

[ssgbryan]

The problem with ALL AMD CPUs is that they want you to have a nuclear power-plant attached to your computer. That doesn't fit in well with modern industrial design.

You seem to be confusing the CPUs with the GPUs. Threadripper maxes out at 180w TDP, Ryzen 7 tops out at 95w
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Here is what I need/want, and I think it would be good for a lot of others as well, I think that it hits what most professionals really need, without neing overkill. It’s good enough for virtualization, lite 3d rendering (CAD/CAM, not as much Maya finals and heavy FEA), 4k video editing, and photo editing.

6-8 cores with hyperthreading, 32-64 gigs ram, m.2 ultra ssd boot drive (not soldered), upgradeable/replaceable gpu, Apple 5k monitor (surface studio style touch/tilt would be nice), touchbar wireless keyboard, tunderbolt external storage.

More cores (unless Apple adds Nvidia cards), otherwise yep.
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That's pretty much it. iMacs and MacBook Pros have more than enough processing power and memory for a lot of the tasks that people used to need to buy an aluminum Mac Pro for. The 2013 Mac Pro redesign was the original acknowledgment by Apple that the "pro" desktop needed to target a much higher level of processing. It wasn't a machine that you would buy to run the Adobe Creative Suite or do 1080p video editing like the old aluminum Mac Pros.

I do 3D (No, I am not a "professional", I am strictly amateur hour). The iMac Pro is the 1st iMac that could possibly handle my workflow. If I don't cook the components during rendering.

 

[Val-kyrie]

"At the time, Apple's software engineering chief Craig Federighi admitted that the 2013 Mac Pro's so-called "trash can" design has a limited thermal capacity that doesn't always meet the needs of the most demanding workflows."

Apple thought "Pros" preferred Form over Function. How could Apple be so out of touch?

Just look at the iMac "Pro."

 

[aknabi]

I get the hate on the trash can, and am *really* looking forward to the new Mac Pro... having said that I've been delighted with my fully loaded Mac Pro (note I'm a developer that works with large design files, but not a heavy digital design/media person).

My 12-core trash can ((upgraded from a base one to 128GB, 1TB SSD, 12-core... yes you can do some of that) is a beast in building large Xcode projects, can have Xcode, Photoshop, Illustrator, Office, Sketch and few other tools open with plenty of headroom left.

And even when stressed it's far more quiet than my MBP... oh and I can put it in it's case, strap it on my shoulder and bike to work with it when I want to.

For some of us it's an ideal machine... the only problem I have with it is I wish there was a socket compatible CPU upgrade... the big fault was the socket didn't have a few more years in it... however this Mac would do me (and I would imagine many others) quite well for at least another 3 years.

I don't know if the next Mac Pro will be able to travel and operate quietly.as well as the trash can.. some Pros really appreciate that. Just an opinion/observation

 

[Guy Clark]

Apple have been often criticised for the use of the old design of the Mac Pro used up until 2012 and remained largely unchanged externally to that of the PowerMac G5. It was however a tried and tested design with multiple upgradability options available to the user.

Making such a radical change in the design of the Mac Pro in 2013 was a considerable gamble made by Apple. With the introduction of the iMac Pro if it succeeds the Mac Pro could well become redundant within the Mac lineup as there would be a more than valid argument as to whether it is justified to have two premium Macs available in the range.

Apple would appear to have lost focus one where they should be concentrating on development. How about a refreshed Mac mini which hasn't seen a decent update since 2012.

 

[hybra]

C'mon Apple, bring on the Mac Mini Pro already... please.

 

[341328]

200 billion in the bank and they take years to replace mac pro and mac mini. But apparently "We're committed to the Mac". I'm calling BS.

 

[Bacillus]

200 billion in the bank and they take years to replace mac pro and mac mini. But apparently "We're committed to the Mac". I'm calling BS.

Yesterday Phil convinced me. Pfff, I am so happy to hear that it's not bad management, just a bad week Actually, a couple since he couldn't innovate his ass (in 2013...)

So go Phil, go !!
Time to slash those Samsung/Amazon/Google... copycats duplicating the HomePod (that refuses to exist...) and those OLED screens in advance.

 

[zonk44]

The top configuration of the iMac Pro is available for 0.79 Bitcoins. Quite reasonable

 

[Msivyparrot]

Oooh, maybe the new mac pro is a miner in disguise??

 

[rdsii64]

It is beginning to look like my next computer will have to be a PC. For the price of an entry level imac pro I can build a thread ripper machine with change left over. This sucks because compared to MacOs I HATE WINDOWS! So I'm left with choosing the lesser of two evils. I can use an operating system I hate, or play silly hackintosh games. Neither of these choices is good, especially playing hackintosh games.

 

[danielwsmithee]

It is beginning to look like my next computer will have to be a PC. For the price of an entry level imac pro I can build a thread ripper machine with change left over. This sucks because compared to MacOs I HATE WINDOWS! So I'm left with choosing the lesser of two evils. I can use an operating system I hate, or play silly hackintosh games. Neither of these choices is good, especially playing hackintosh games.

If price of the iMac Pro is the biggest concern... next years iMac based on the i7-8700k, i7-8700, and i5-8600K will have pretty substantial performance at much more consumer friendly price.

 

[rdsii64]

If price of the iMac Pro is the biggest concern... next years iMac based on the i7-8700k, i7-8700, and i5-8600K will have pretty substantial performance at much more consumer friendly price.

Put those specs in a traditional tower that can be upgraded as my needs change and keep the initial purchase price under 2K and I'll buy 3.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

C'mon Apple, bring on the Mac Mini Pro already... please.

All they have to do is make the trash can the Mac Mini Pro (with an 8700K processor and the "Radeon Pro 580 with 8G" with up to 64GB of main memory and a fast SSD (basically a normal iMac that is headless) -- and call it the "Mac". Then take the old Cheesegrater Mac and make it "space grey", take out the hard drive bays, but in U.2 bays for additional SSDs. Make all the PCIe slots full ones shrink it down by a half inch and have the option to install ears and put it in a rack if you wanted to.

 

[theluggage]

Apple have been often criticised for the use of the old design of the Mac Pro used up until 2012 and remained largely unchanged externally to that of the PowerMac G5.

Really?

ISTR that the criticism was mainly the lack of any significant processor upgrades/lack of official GPU options after about 2010. Don't recall many people begging for it to be made smaller. If they revived it today then maybe the 2 x 5.25" optical bays could go, but 4x easily swappable HD bays are still useful, thanks.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

Really?

ISTR that the criticism was mainly the lack of any significant processor upgrades/lack of official GPU options after about 2010. Don't recall many people begging for it to be made smaller. If they revived it today then maybe the 2 x 5.25" optical bays could go, but 4x easily swappable HD bays are still useful, thanks.

The 4 drives are sort of a compromise that is not needed in a modular mac. Hard drives are better placed in an external chassis, which could then be rack mounted under. I have 4 drive bays and 12 drives... Best just to have a slot for a full power SAS controller and put the shaking and vibrating disk bits in there own separate case (which should be able to be rack mounted beneath it).

Best to shrink it an inch without taking away PCIe slots so it can fit in a rack (even an Apple squat rack if they wanted to be modular).
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If price of the iMac Pro is the biggest concern... next years iMac based on the i7-8700k, i7-8700, and i5-8600K will have pretty substantial performance at much more consumer friendly price.

Exactly, I am not an iMac fan (especially since monitors are the second most likely failure point after hard drives) -- but the baseline iMac Pro is about $1,300USD more than a similarly configured iMac (normal) with the additional 4 cores, a better graphics cards -- it is not a huge step up. The iMac Pro is a workstation class machine (most home users don't "need" it - and what it brings to the table so they don't really put a price on things like ECC memory and AVX-512 etc. It is not meant for your average Joe -- most of which already have more machine than they ever use.

 

[Philcox19842013]

"high-throughput system in a modular, upgradeable design,"

I know people are thinking tower, but with the rise of eGPUs I'm thinking Apple may go completely modular. As in the CPU is in one box, the GPU is in another, storage is in another, all connected by TB3 (4?) EDIT (central PCI bus). Think of a MacMini type enclosure but each component is a separate box and swappable/upgradable.

EDIT: credit to user Velocityg4 for the picture of Razers Project Christine:

View attachment 742152

yes, yes, yes! This is exactly what I have been expecting for years

 

[jujufreeze]

I know this is stretching the design team thin, but some front facing ports would probably make some people happy. I know they make hubs and all, but talk about sabotaging the simplicity you’re trying to convey by putting all of them on the back. Heck, make a wired keyboard that is a multi port hub or something. I don’t think a few ports showing is offensive. Wires all over my desk because I don’t want to spin the machine around to plug something into the back again? That’s what seems like a design compromise.

Form over Function is Apple's new playbook

 

[theluggage]

The 4 drives are sort of a compromise that is not needed in a modular mac. Hard drives are better placed in an external chassis, which could then be rack mounted under.

Sure - that's a perfectly valid approach now that we have high-speed external connections... On the other hand, why have two boxes under your desk, two power cables, and a data cable that could get pulled out, when you could have one box? Different people will have different preferences.

Thing is, choice is good: if something is there you can choose to not use it - but if it's not there you have no choice. This is the problem when designers get obsessed with making stuff ever smaller.

The cheesgrater design saves space by being big & robust enough to stand on the floor under your desk. When you already offer a range of great-looking laptops and all-in-ones, perhaps the sensible option for your "power user" machine to balance the range is a big, floor-standing tower with space for the kitchen sink?

(No, I don't think we'll see internal drive bays in the new MP - at least Apple have now said it will be "upgradeable" although who knows what that actually means - is the iMac Pro "upgradeable" now we know that an Apple-authorised service centre can upgrade the RAM?)

 

[fairuz]

I think the new Mac Pro will be available from Apple with nVIDIA GPU(s?). At least I hope so.

Why should those that need CUDA be forced to use an eGPU? Doesn’t really make sense. Was hoping for the same for iMac Pro, actually. But an eGPU is more tolerable for the iMac Pro target market.

Those who require the flexibility and upgradability of the modular MacPro are the same type of users who won’t want to settle for the performance hit that a TB3-connected eGPU imposes. I also want to see support for two internal GPUs.

I hope so, but I doubt it's going to happen. As someone else said, they seem married to AMD. Even their External Graphics Development Kit uses an RX580.

 

[theluggage]

Best to shrink it an inch without taking away PCIe slots so it can fit in a rack

...or make it from standard PC parts so it can be assembled to order in mini-tower, full tower or proper rackmount form (without a 2-year, multi-million R&D project to design a unique thermal-envelope-pushing enclosure) - like the choice you have if you buy a generic Windows workstation?