Apple Continues to Work on All-New Mac Pro With Upgradeable Design

[iriejedi]

My early 2008 with new 1TB SSD is faster than my brand new Dell Engineering 7510 work laptop... that said, I'm in the market a decade is a good run and to get this story on the launch of Star Wars Movie Day and BDAY Weekend - its like the trifecta of amazing days. Just a Friday off of payday that would probably push me to decalf for the day....

Does not need to be cheap... but at least make it affordable for the human computer user (vs Movie Studio Super User).... 2008 is really really really OLD bits and pieces.....

Don’t need a computer but I look forward to see what they got down the pipeline.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

why just the pro? can you at least give me accessible processor, memory and hard drive on the iMac and mac mini?

They can, but the price might be losing some of that "thinner" that is apparently all important. Early iMacs were surprisingly easy to upgrade. Upgradeable parts (or parts likely to wear out) were readily accessible right behind the plastic shell (instead of it being 24 steps to get at them, practically involving breaking the computer almost completely down to just parts).

A few family members still have iMacs from the 2000's. They seem about an inch+ thick on the sides and have a super drive in them. Hard drive dies? Remove a small quantity of normal screws and find the hard drive right there, easily swapped out. Hard drive dies in my newer iMac? If I'm going to do it, I'm going to need suction cups, have to be very careful not to sever several fragile wires, and go through a pretty deep process just to get at the drive. Then, hope I can keep dust specs out of the equation when putting it all back together.

But of course, all us consumers really, really, REALLY want our IMmobile desktop computers to be as thin as possible. So Apple listened to that overwhelmingly dominant want and gave it to us. We also wanted the tech guts glued down, soldered and thoroughly inaccessible... and oh how we love screw choices that require new tools to be able to actually turn them.

There's nothing more important about desktop computers than the oohing and ahhing envy of friends who come over and see how much thinner my desktop is vs. theirs. Who cares about inaccessibility, virtually no upgradability, core throttling because of thin-driven thermal challenges and on and on. What's important is 3 seconds (one time) of "wow, that's so thin!"

Sarcasm aside: don't we all know that Apple could rework the guts of an iMac to key around user upgradeability of key parts, bringing them back to the surface behind the back shell instead of making them very difficult to get at through the front screen? And if Apple came off "thinner" about all else, can't we imagine at least a single slot built into maybe a modestly thicker (maybe just tapering thicker) iMac in which an aging graphics card could be swapped for a newer one? The problem with that? Having to practically throw out/retire an iMac after a few years and buy another is much more profitable than building one that can have fundamental upgrades to keep up with the times for a few more years than currently-designed ones.
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How hard can this be to design? Fitting everything into the iMac, Mac Mini, or Apple TV chassis I can see as being hard. But by the very nature of the use of this device I don’t see that as being as big an issue. I would think users would rather have an upgradable, easily repaired device over cramming everything into the smallest form factor.

But Apple innovation seems fixated on starting with "smallest form factor."

 

[gugy]

By the way the beauty of the Mac Pro. I have a 2011 12 core. Last year upgraded RAM and added a pci-e ssd. Did the Photoshop test from MR. I was only one second slower than the most powerful Mac at the time. (still the same).

With that said, my suspicion the modular pieces will cost an arm and a leg and will all be Apple proprietary. So no chance to get a third part components like I did before at way cheaper prices.

 

[Asizemore940]

I mean, the trash can was cool, but not cool enough.

How about reusing the trash can design as a starting point for a new low end headless mac? Surely it has enough thermal capability to be a "mac mini" on steroids? A nice core i5 with 16GB Ram and a 256 SSD as a base config, expandable to a nice core i7, 32 GB a 512 SSD and a discrete video card on the high end... price it lower than then cheapest iMac for base config...

 

[Chupa Chupa]

You assume, of course, he was a professional and bought it for a reason and not just to have the most expensive iMac ever sold on his desk as a status symbol. I would say a fairly decent number of buyers of these will be trust fund kids wanting the most expensive one in their dorm rooms.

I'm not assuming anything like that, but he's asking what he's suppose to do with his $13K iMac -- which I amusing he's being facetious in light of this thread's article regarding Apple reaffirming a modular Mac Pro is on the way, i.e, the iMac will somehow then be obsolete.

Also, I'm sure some super wealthy individuals will buy the iMac Pro, but there are not enough of those for Apple to justify making this machine. Apple is looking to sell 100 of thousands of these, not thousands. Apple is looking to sell these to institutions and companies with massive equipment budgets. Sorry, but there are not enough super wealthy people around that would want a $5K Mac just to have one to make any kind of money for Apple here. And college kids, even really rich ones, have no use for an "old fashioned" desktop. If they are splurging it's on a decked out MBP.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

This is a thought I had as well, though I doubt it will be quite as configurable as that. I think the new Mac Pro and "mini" will be announced at the same time, and they will be called the Mac and Mac Pro.

I think they will be two different chassis/forms that look nearly identical, but the pro will be taller/wider/bigger in some way that allows for expansion.

Either that, or there will be one configurable core computer, that on its own with lower end configs would be the headless consumer Mac, or you could config the processor/RAM higher end and connect a Pro breakout expansion module where you could extend the core with extra capacity and GPUs.

Wouldn't it be nice if they would design one machine to just be a normal tower that you can do what you want to with instead of focusing so much on it being a masterpiece of design that you can't do anything but use it like an iPhone? Obviously there would be some limitations on components that would "just work", but, for crying out loud, RAM, SSDs, and Video Cards are not that tough to replace/upgrade if they are supported.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Cool. We'll put you in the "form-over-function" column.

Why not both? You just want function, Dell is that way

 

[intz2nu]

Well I'm looking forward to the so called *Pro Display*. That being said I have my doubts it will work with any other computer apart from Apple sadly. Though one can still hope it will.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Says who (besides you)? Believe it or not, there is a huge market between the people that want something more than their iPad and movie makers and scientists. You're saying everybody else should be happy with the ONLY OTHER CHOICE, the iMac?

Apple has always had a premium price, commodity hardware is Dell's game.

 

[spiddyman007]

So what do I do with the $13,000 iMac Pro that I just bought?

Get the modular iMac pro for 15,000. Then the Mac Pro for 20,000.
Then get an iPad in 10 years for 300 that can do better processing.

 

[asdavis10]

Can you seriously imagine spending that much money on the iMac Pro that you can't even add more RAM to yourself? I know it is a great machine, but I would never dream of buying it; I would wait for something that I could upgrade.

They need a pro machine that the user can upgrade.

I have an IT business and we only service Apple hardware. I have many business customers who have the current Mac Pro that they haven't upgraded. $5K systems that haven't upgraded over their life.

I think people assume that because Apple doesn't do focus groups that they don't know what specs are out there (stock and modified). I'm sure they know that there are professionals that have purchased the Mac Pro and haven't even added RAM.

The "pro" users that we service don't open up their machines. That why they have service contracts with us. But we also don't get many service calls to upgrade internals. We do a lot of hardware repairs, but that won't change no matter what Apple puts out.

But when Apple announced the iMac Pro, they made it clear shortly after (or before, can't remember) that this wasn't going to be the only pro desktop in their lineup. So they have something coming for those needing to upgrade and/or don't want an AIO.

 

[critter13]

just bring back a quad core i7 mini with TB3

 

[dogslobber]

Seriously Apple. Look at the HP Z8. Something like that. Offivial support for pascal and volta. Two cpu slots. Couple of 3.5 drive bays. A good amount of pcie slots.

What uses are 3.5” bays for nowadays? DVD are gone and SSD form factor is 2.5” as it’s doubtful you’d use a spinner these days for such a machine.

 

[vetruvian]

The aluminum design was introduced in 2003 and it still looks like it could have been designed yesterday.

^This. My 2010 Mac Pro is currently sitting on the floor in my room unused. This is the exact thought that comes to mind every time I look at it!

 

[jdawgnoonan]

Apple has always had a premium price, commodity hardware is Dell's game.

Apple uses the same **** in a prettier box.

I have an IT business and we only service Apple hardware. I have many business customers who have the current Mac Pro that they haven't upgraded. $5K systems that haven't but upgraded over their life.

I think people assume that because Apple doesn't do focus groups that they don't know what specs are out there (stock and modified). I'm sure they know that there are professionals that have purchase the Mac Pro and haven't even added RAM.

The "pro" users that we service don't open up their machines. That why they have service contracts with us. But we also don't get many service calls to upgrade internals. We do a lot of hardware repairs, but that won't change no matter what Apple puts out.

But when Apple announced the iMac Pro, they made it clear shortly after (or before, can't remember) that this wasn't going to be the only pro desktop in their lineup. So they have something coming for those needing to upgrade and/or don't want an AIO.

That makes sense to me, especially if I am buying it on someone else's budget and can rely on getting a new machine when it is EOLed in three to five years.

 

[theluggage]

I'm not sure why people are complaining about the price tag for Pro computer models. These aren't intended for the average consumer.

Well, the top-end regular iMac and the 15" MBP aren't really designed for the "average consumer" either.

The "problem" customer is the enthusiast/hobbyist who wants something a bit meatier than an iMac but doesn't want to pay the steep premium for Xeon/ECC technology which is as much about reliability and stability as performance. If they were going to "roll their own" they'd probably pick a top-end i7 "extreme" and a top-end prosumer/gaming graphics card and pack it in a mini-tower case with room for big freakin' coolers. That's the sort of system that would come in a lot cheaper than an iMP/Mac Pro, and fit their needs better. I.e. exactly the same people that are building Hackintoshes.

(Here's an idea, Apple - officially sanctioned Hackintosh program: reasonable charge, private individuals only, strictly no resale, permanently linked to your Apple ID, published official hardware compatibility list, some guarantee that you're not arbitrarily going to block it on a whim...)

Announced in April 2017 and then brought up again in December 2017 so we know they did not forget about it. I'm expecting a March-April 2018 release. They can't expect potential buyers to wait much longer than a year after being announced.

(Looks at tea leaves) - Announced at WWDC 2018, available to order mid-December 2018, don't count on getting it until Jan 2019. That seems to fit a pattern...

I wonder how many of those who've endlessly complained about the nMP have acutally used one, let alone owned one?..... Oh well...

...and you sure that those people hadn't thought seriously about getting one, done some research, decided "aha, what we have here is an appliance for running FCPX - that's not what I need" and then googled GPU upgrades for their 2010 cheeesegrater?

 

[cjbryce]

Just give me a small upgradable mini-like box I can modify. It doesn't have to be a work of art. Yes, relatively few Mac users upgrade their systems but the ones that do are the most hard core and vocal.

I'm not a Mac Pro user but I do like my laptops/desktops to look pretty good. I'm probably therefore not a "Pro" user at all but having said all that:-

How about taking a taller Mac Mini style housing (with cooling in each box) and making it modular by using double-ended card-like plugs which simply connect the expansion boxes one above the other through aligned slots in the top and bottom of the boxes? Make these connector cards with loads of redundant channels for introducing new features. Maybe even two connectors, one optical and one for electrical power (although I simply don't know if optical is the ultimate for data transfer?)

• Base box
  • Configurable from i7 all the way to Xeon and beyond
  • Comes with GPU
  • MacOS on an SSD with some data storage
  • Basic ports, Ethernet, WiF
• PSU box - the rest of the boxes are going to need a fairly heavy PSU
• RAM (with the ability to open and slot more third-party RAM in as required)
• GPU box for "approved" Apple-assembled GPU/RAM combos
• Port expansion box
• Storage
• Card box (is there enough space in a Mac Mini footprint for cards or are cards still as huge as they used to be?)
• For serious pros - a multi-CPU box?

That way you could have a "tower" of boxes all connected from a base box and PSU box. Outgrow your Mac Mini-equivalent base box? Simply buy a MacPro-equivalent base box and swap it out. Want a heavier GPU, buy a GPU box and plug it in. Want a serious third-party GPU, get the card box and plug one in - third-parties could get MadeForMac licensing? One box goes phut - no huge biggie, just replace/repair that box. If each box is separately cooled, there might be an issue with fan noise but since you've separated all the components maybe the individual cooling requirements of each box would be lessened?

I'm far from being an engineer or systems expert, so I stress that I have no idea at all how feasible any of this is, but it'd fulfil my criteria for an expandable but good-looking system. Probably no-one else's though

 

[dogslobber]

Is the IMac Pro and Mac Pro to split up the pro level user base? E.g. photographers and video people would use the I,ac Pro as it looks good while real Pro users need a workhorse with function over aesthetics?

 

[KellyJ]

The modular Mac Pro is what I am holding out for. Today, Apple does not build a Mac that I would purchase. I want a Mac that can be readily upgraded, expanded, and repaired. Anything less and I have no interest. I have stuck with Apple since its very inception. I hope it restores my faith in a desktop Mac with the modular Mac Pro, and will consider making a laptop that has analogous features. Then I can buy another laptop too.

 

[Minxy]

'Apple is working on a completely redesigned, next-generation Mac Pro architected for pro customers who need the highest performance, high-throughput system in a modular, upgradeable design'

This is interesting and it's got me wondering will the Mac Pro specification be? Personally I would love an affordable 'Mac Pro' that is simply a relatively modest desktop Mac that I can upgrade by adding cheaper RAM and a high performance Nvidia graphics card with the monitor I want - but that's never going to happen.

So realistically there's no chance of a consumer price level which means an Mac Pro will have an iMac Pro spec at the very least. I think it probable that it will be a true pro machine and monitor that can edit 8K and Apple will push Final Cut Pro X for movie makers.

-But I would like a basic home model!

 

[guzhogi]

Early iMacs were surprisingly easy to upgrade. Upgradeable parts (or parts likely to wear out) were readily accessible right behind the plastic shell (instead of it being 24 steps to get at them, practically involving breaking the computer almost completely down to just parts).

While I never had one myself, I remember hearing that Power Mac 9500s were a bear to upgrade. Had to take a boatload of stuff out of the case to access the RAM and whatever. I miss the Blue & White G3s, & Power Mac G4s. Just pull down the side, and there was the motherboard.

The problem I see is there are two very disparate groups of people who want Macs: those who want the super thin, fashionable Macs who don't care about upgradeability, and the people who want easy upgradeability & repair, who don't care about fashionable cases. Unfortunately, the former group seems way more common, so Apple seems to want to cater mainly to them.

 

[anson42]

And still not even a whisper of a new Mac Mini.

I'd like a Mac Mini Pro. Headless, minimally upgradable (SSD/RAM) with an 8 core desktop class not mobile processor and better than mobile graphics. Like an Intel NUC plus dedicated GPU but from Apple. To pair with my MBP for more processor intensive and server applications and use as a media server. I don't need the graphics nor compute power of the iMac Pro or Mac Pro but more power than a MBP without the AIO form factor would be fabulous.

 

[vetruvian]

I know this would never happen, but it would be awesome if Apple simply sold a high-end server grade mother board. ****, they could even charge a hefty price ($1000-$1500) and many people would build their own professional grade mac. I realize you can essentially accomplish this via the Hackintosh route as long as you are willing to incur the install/upgrade/compatibility headaches..

I think Peter Paul Chato had mentioned this in one of his YouTube videos at some point. Again, I know this goes against everything Apple has ever done, but I can dream can't I?

 

[tomscott1988]

Thing is the Mac pro used to be good value. My 2008 mac pro standard config I bought from apple new for £1500. I upgraded it over the years until it started to struggle on and a project I was working on required a bit more power.

If the iMac starts at £5k then where will this start? 7k? 10K? You better believe they will make you pay for it.

Thing is people bla bla about these are for pros and they can afford them. Well from a business owners point of view the computer is just one piece of the puzzle the more value you can get from a machine the more money you can make or spend on other things such as advertising your business, buying more photographic gear, drives, security, insurance, creative cloud subscription etc etc

When you add it all together its not as easy as people think, you have to live, look after your family etc

My 2008 Mac pro lasted me up to 2013, the trash can was so far away from what I wanted and the cost of entry was prohibitive. I ended up buying a 2009 quad which I upgraded to a 2010 and put a 3.46ghz 6 core 48gb of ram 2x500gb SSDs in raid 0 and it cost me about £1250.

Im still going strong on this system as it still benches pretty well at 3500 single and 15500 multi and for an 8-9 year old machine its pretty impressive. Spending £2500 on an i7 iMac will give me similar export rendering times but lightroom will probably perform quicker as the single core is about 5500.

Problem is I still wouldn't want to buy a trash can as my current mac pro is about the same bench between a quad and a hex and I would need to buy some sort of thunderbolt raid array to put my drives in. Makes no sense. The iMac has the same old issues as there is no chance I would get the life out of it. Although I would kill for that display.

I dont think there really is a machine for people like me, professional photographer and graphic designer who dib and dabble with video and motion graphics.

The 5K iMac would be ideal but I run through roughly 2-3 4tb HDDs a year. I might shoot 128gbs per wedding after edit and export its probably around 150gbs total. 30-40 weddings add that up. Although I supply roughly 500 images you have a duty of care in this industry for the client to keep hold of these images incase they have an issue and need the images or if down the line they want more etc Happened many times that old clients come back to me asking if they could have an image they didnt select etc.

I like the internal storage options on the mac pro and I dont want multiple raid arrays as the cost is silly compared to having a few internal bays...

Currently I have 4 4TBs one 6TB and 2 500gb SSDs in my Pro which is then backed up to a server for redundancy every night and I also have an off site server I switch out every month in case of burglary/natural disaster. With the iMac I would need to buy 2 raids one to work off the other for redundancy which would probably run me £2.5k. Servers are cheap, drives are cheap setting up redundancy is cheap in comparison.

If something happens with the iMac I would need to ship it off for repair with the Mac Pro you can trouble shoot it.

Looks like my 2010 might have to last a bit longer... maybe add another 6 core to it but apple will probably stop supporting it when the new one comes out.

I cant complain too much as these computers have cost me almost nothing per year. Mainy because you could upgrade them as your situation changed... but its doesn't really sound attractive to spend 5X plus the rest more on a new machine which might only be twice as fast.

Because the trash can is still available and stupidly expensive for the tech that in it for a 5 year old machine, they haven't really come down in value on the preowned market either. There is nothing really that I see as a good purchase except the 5K imac but that as I mentioned has its own issues in my work flow.

I dont think I am in the minority either. Many of my photographic pro friends have completely given up waiting and have bought windows machines. Windows 10 isnt bad these days and I have an i7 windows rig for some gaming or if I need to render multiple projects, but I do like OSX as ive used it my whole professional life.

If im honest high sierra hasnt been so good for me had lots of issues with it installed on my retina macbook especially with creative apps, freezes etc so havent moved the pro over to HS yet.

 

[BorderingOn]

Just think of somebody going into a meeting and pitching Steve Jobs on a $13,000 computer that can't be upgraded. They would be fired before they finished the sentence

How about $24K in today’s dollars?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lisa