Apple COO Jeff Williams 'Very Aware Of' Concerns Over Apple Product Cost

[DevNull0]

You do know that adapters take up a tiny tiny tiny tiny percentage of their overall profit, right? This whole idea that Apple makes a ton of money off of adapters at the cost of their brand is flat out wrong.

Then there is literally no excuse for macs in 2016 or even 2019 to have only usb-c connectors other than sheer cluelessness and incompetence on the part of Apple.
[doublepost=1551376429][/doublepost]

Adapters are temporary. There will be new equipment that supports USB-C natively.

We've been hearing that for 3 years. There's a handful of accessories that support USB-C at a huge markup. Even the current iPhones being sold in 2019 don't come with a USB-C cable. It is yet another of Apple's still-born standards, and like the others it will continue for several years with a sub-1% market share among the hardcore fans until Apple silently kills it off. 3 years in, USB-C seems less adopted than firewire did. At least firewire offered speed that video pros appreciated. USB-C offers nothing of value.

 

[farewelwilliams]

It not Apple's job to accelerate the popularity of USB-C.

slightly disagree. for future products, USB-C is key. iPad Pro with USB-C is only the start (and it's a huge win for UX)
[doublepost=1551390879][/doublepost]

Oh, I'm not saying one or the other. I'm saying a pro laptop should have both.

I think you're misunderstanding me. What I'm saying is if you you have 2xUSB-A ports and 2xUSB-C ports along with 3xUSB-A devices and 3xUSB-C devices, I'll need double adapters.

Example: So in order to use 3 USB-A devices simultaneously, I'll need one adapter (USB-A female to USB-C male). In order to use 3 USB-C devices simultaneously, I'll need a different adapter (USB-C female to USB-A male). So now you have two different adapters. That's extremely ridiculous. Just go all in on USB-C and deal with one type of adapter (USB-A female to USB-C male).

Not to mention, if you had 2xUSB-A and 2xUSB-C, you'll likely be using 1 USB-C for power and 1 USB-C for video out which will discourage buying USB-C devices in general. That'll keep USB-A alive longer which isn't good.

 

[KPandian1]

I think you're misunderstanding me.

if you had 2xUSB-A and 2xUSB-C, you'll likely be using 1 USB-C for power and 1 USB-C for video out which will discourage buying USB-C devices in general. That'll keep USB-A alive longer which isn't good.

USB-C is the future, no doubt - still not happening after 3 years of Apple's "forward, brave vision"!

So, just change the 2015 MacBook Pro's two TB to USB-C.

I will never, and neither will most users including hard-core professionals, need to use "3xUSB-A devices and 3xUSB-C devices" the same time.

Falsely, you have added a power USB-C use - for power, "you'll likely be using 1 USB-C for power". I will be using the MagSafe.

Use practical scenarios, not extreme examples, hyperbole to push your point across.

USB-A co-existing alongside USB-C is not a bad thing for portables' users. (Removing optical drives did not force a different kind of optical drive-format on the user.)

Adaption will happen. Not because a laptop becomes an Octopuss that has detach/attach dongle freak show.

Assembly needed for each use is not the definition of even desktops - why should that happen in laptops.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Then there is literally no excuse for macs in 2016 or even 2019 to have only usb-c connectors other than sheer cluelessness and incompetence on the part of Apple.

Literally? To encourage adoption of USB-C and to prevent confusion of users wishing to "downgrade" their USB-C device to USB-A using yet another adapter type (Apple does not make USB-C female to USB-A male adapters currently).

We've been hearing that for 3 years. There's a handful of accessories that support USB-C at a huge markup. Even the current iPhones being sold in 2019 don't come with a USB-C cable. It is yet another of Apple's still-born standards, and like the others it will continue for several years with a sub-1% market share among the hardcore fans until Apple silently kills it off. 3 years in, USB-C seems less adopted than firewire did.

USB-A is ubiquitous. You expect to transition to USB-C overnight? How often do you replace all of your USB devices? I'd wager there are plenty of USB-A devices that last longer than your TV.

iPhones don't come with a USB-C cable because most don't need to connect to their laptop anymore. App store was removed from iTunes, AirDrop easily transfers files, and syncing happens over wifi. Fast charging is nice to have, but not critical in everyday situations. Apple is likely transitioning away from lightning, so they don't want users to get used to the fairly new USB-C to lightning cable.

And I see no data that suggests USB-C still has less adoption than Firewire. You just made that data up I believe.

At least firewire offered speed that video pros appreciated.

The ports support USB 3.1 Gen 2 AND TB3. Both are faster FW800 in real world conditions.

USB-C offers nothing of value.

Incorrect. For one, I can just carry one USB-C battery pack and I can charge all of my devices in my bag with it. My iPad Pro, my Switch, and my Macbook Pro. Of course there are a bunch of other benefits.
[doublepost=1551397147][/doublepost]

So, just change the 2015 MacBook Pro's two TB to USB-C.

Plenty of professionals need more than two TB. And if you use USB-C for video out, you're stuck with only one TB port left. Not good.

I will never, and neither will most users including hard-core professionals, need to use "3xUSB-A devices and 3xUSB-C devices" the same time.

Use practical scenarios, not extreme examples, hyperbole to push your point across.

I'm not saying 6 device at one time. I'm saying one situation will be used, then eventually the other situation will happen.

This is a practical example: Right now, you likely have 3xUSB-A devices or more, so you buy one type of adapter that "upgrades" one of your USB-A to USB-C.

Then over time, you'll acquire 3xUSB-C devices or more (this is a sure thing) which then you have to buy another type of adapter to "downgrade" that USB-C to USB-A. You now have two different USB-A/USB-C adapters. If you hate adapters now, you'll hate this even more.

And you're still using one USB-C for video often. So to the user deciding whether they should buy a USB-A or USB-C version of a product, there's a chance that they'll probably stick with USB-A since they have more USB-A ports available. That means less USB-C adoption.

Falsely, you have added a power USB-C use - for power, "you'll likely be using 1 USB-C for power". I will be using the MagSafe.

No.

If they shipped a MagSafe port, that means they'll include the MagSafe charger with the MacBook which also means Apple wouldn't make an 87W USB-C charger. So the average MacBook Pro would need to carry a MagSafe and a USB-C iPad/iPhone charger, unless users buy a third party 87W USB-C charger or hope that they don't do any heavy work on the MacBook with a 30W charger. Apple wouldn't want this experience. Apple has always been in favor of doing things one way and not confusing the user with options.

Right now I can just carry an 87W to charge all of my Apple devices. Simple. And as Apple transitions away from lightning, it'll just get easier over time.

USB-A co-existing alongside USB-C is not a bad thing for portables' users. (Removing optical drives did not force a different kind of optical drive-format on the user.)

USB-A and USB-C creates confusion. You're upgrading USB-A with one adapter, downgrading USB-C with another adapter, and dealing with MagSafe or USB-C power.

You can't really compare this with optical drives. Apple didn't replace optical drives with something else. Use of optical drives simply declined.

 

[Page56]

While I really love my apple phone (I have a 6) due to the increased pricing I think it may be the last one I can afford

 

[Peperino]

Apple recycles batteries and reuses the magnets and cobalt, so no, it's environmentally friendly. I mean, with your logic, you're saying that iPads shouldn't have batteries then

Your ignorance about simple facts is amazing. Making computers non upgradable, with almost all if its components such as RAM, SSD and keyboards soldered to the Logic board, it ACTUALLY CREATES MORE TRASH, since if any component fails you need to exchange the entire Logic Boards and anything that is soldered to it.
Furthremore, since they are not upgradable, if users need to do a simple upgrade, they just need to buy an entire new computer, what is simply ridiculous and creates more TRASH!
Never saud that iPads should NOT have batteries, you are assuming things.

Making it non-upgradable improves UX from Apple's perspective. Makes it thinner, lighter, reduces materials used, and Apple thinks that a typical user shouldn't worry about opening up the product.

Do I wish I could upgrade a few of my Apple products? Sure, especially the iMac. There's no point in making the iMac thinner IMO. But Apple's demographic includes the 7 year olds and the 70 year olds that don't want to deal with upgrading. Building a product that you don't have to worry about upgrading has always been Apple's goal.

What you're saying is that Apple should allow you to upgrade the iPhone and iPad internals. That would be ridiculous.

Also, it does not make computers more prone to failure. In fact, opening up the computer and using third party parts makes it much more prone to failure.

Making a laptop thinner and lighter was such an obsession in Apple that they forgot about functionality.
And when design (and especially lame laptop design on 2016+) is way prioritized over functionality, creates a product like the MacBook Pro 2016 which was a complete failure.

I never said that iPhone and iPad internals should be upgradable, but if they are, like other phone companies you can replace batteries, it would certainly create less trash.

Opening up the computer does not make them more prone to failure if they properly designed. I owned many old macbooks that you could replace both the RAM and internal HD, and they were certainly way much better built than the newer 2016+ Macbooks.

It is hilarious how you know what Apple thinks about the its users. Either you work for Apple or you seem to know more than Apple itself...Pathetic.
[doublepost=1551404271][/doublepost]

Then there is literally no excuse for macs in 2016 or even 2019 to have only usb-c connectors other than sheer cluelessness and incompetence on the part of Apple.
[doublepost=1551376429][/doublepost]

We've been hearing that for 3 years. There's a handful of accessories that support USB-C at a huge markup. Even the current iPhones being sold in 2019 don't come with a USB-C cable. It is yet another of Apple's still-born standards, and like the others it will continue for several years with a sub-1% market share among the hardcore fans until Apple silently kills it off. 3 years in, USB-C seems less adopted than firewire did. At least firewire offered speed that video pros appreciated. USB-C offers nothing of value.

It is pathetic that in 2019 you cannot connect the most Apple sold product, the iPhone to your own computer.
That shows, the incompetence of Apple engineering team.
Innovations has been dead in Apple for many years. Apple used to be the leader, now it turned into a Trailer.
Apple has been falling behind its competitors in terms of quality, design, functionality -- both in software and hardware.

 

[DevNull0]

Literally? To encourage adoption of USB-C and to prevent confusion of users wishing to "downgrade" their USB-C device to USB-A using yet another adapter type (Apple does not make USB-C female to USB-A male adapters currently).

Three years in, it failed to encourage adoption. As anyone with a brain predicted in 2016. Everyone used USB-A then and everyone uses it today.

USB-A is ubiquitous. You expect to transition to USB-C overnight? How often do you replace all of your USB devices? I'd wager there are plenty of USB-A devices that last longer than your TV.

USB-A is ubiquitous to this day, yet for 3 years you've needed an adaptor to use it with your Mac. You really don't see that as a problem. It's a disgustingly crippled experience. Just like all things Apple have become under Timmy.

iPhones don't come with a USB-C cable because most don't need to connect to their laptop anymore.

Then why do they come with a USB-A cable and charger? You're trying to twist your brain into a pretzel to convince yourself there's a good reason for Apple's idiocy. There isn't. They just are clueless about tech.

And I see no data that suggests USB-C still has less adoption than Firewire. You just made that data up I believe.

I said it seems...as in my perception. I literally made it clear in my post that I was stating my belief not citing a reliable fact. But nice try.

The ports support USB 3.1 Gen 2 AND TB3. Both are faster FW800 in real world conditions.

I said that firewire offered an advantage over the other standards it was competing with. It was faster than USB 2.

If you want to play that stupid game, then the current USB 3.2/USB-C is way slower than ports will be in the year 2035. Therefore USB-C is garbage. Your logic is beyond flawed at this point. You're trying to prove a false statement.

Incorrect. For one, I can just carry one USB-C battery pack and I can charge all of my devices in my bag with it

ROFL. Seriously????? My USB-A battery pack will charge all my devices using the cables they came with. If you want to use a USB-C battery pack to charge an iPhone, you need to buy an adapter. The latest iPhones will charge off my USB-A battery pack using only what came in the iPhone box, but not your USB-C junker. You are way over the line of rational thought now.

Then over time, you'll acquire 3xUSB-C devices or more (this is a sure thing)

3 years in and it's still very hard to find any USB-C devices. USB-A are still, as you say, ubiquitous, and speed-wise USB-A has no problem keeping up with the USB 3.2 generation as well as being backwards compatible to USB 1. The only sure thing is that USB-C was yet another DOA mistake on the part of Timmy and Co. and will be quietly swept under the rug with the emojibar in a few years.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Three years in, it failed to encourage adoption. As anyone with a brain predicted in 2016. Everyone used USB-A then and everyone uses it today.

That doesn't explain what you mean by "literally no excuse".
If you mix USB-A and USB-C, you'll have two types dongles to convert one to the other and vice versa. Bad UX. One excuse is to improve this experience. Immediately you're wrong here.

USB-A is ubiquitous to this day, yet for 3 years you've needed an adaptor to use it with your Mac. You really don't see that as a problem. It's a disgustingly crippled experience. Just like all things Apple have become under Timmy.

You're suggesting a mix of flavors for USB-A and USB-C which means users will be asking for a dongle to convert USB-A to USB-C and USB-C to USB-A (one user may have 3 USB-A devices and another will probably have 3 USB-C devices). What you're asking for is even more of a crippled experience by suggesting the world should have these two types of dongles.

Then why do they come with a USB-A cable and charger? You're trying to twist your brain into a pretzel to convince yourself there's a good reason for Apple's idiocy. There isn't. They just are clueless about tech.

For the 8 year old that is getting the iPhone as their first cell phone. Or the 80 year old that's making the switch from a flip phone that used a proprietary connector to an iPhone. Not every single person in the world has a smartphone charger. So, they ship one.

And like you said, USB-A is currently ubiquitous, so for you to ask for USB-C cables included in an iPhone goes against your thesis.

I said it seems...as in my perception. I literally made it clear in my post that I was stating my belief not citing a reliable fact. But nice try.

I said "You just made that data up I believe." which implies that there was nothing that you experienced that would suggest that USB-C is less adopted.

"Seems" and "perception" implies that there was something that you witnessed, reliable or not, to suggest that USB-C is less adopted. So which is it?

Nice try, but you just don't get it here.

I said that firewire offered an advantage over the other standards it was competing with. It was faster than USB 2.

If you want to play that stupid game, then the current USB 3.2/USB-C is way slower than ports will be in the year 2035. Therefore USB-C is garbage. Your logic is beyond flawed at this point. You're trying to prove a false statement.

There's no Thunderbolt over USB-A. So you'd need a separate port for TB. With USB-C, you can provide TB3 in the same port which offers much faster speeds than USB-A/3 and even the future USB-A/3.2 port. Do you get it now? Or do I have to simplify it even further?

Also DisplayPort standardized DP over USB-C so it can provide the DP signal over that port, something a USB-A port can't do.

And USB-C is a reversible port. So this whole thesis of "USB-C offers nothing of value" is flat out wrong for the many reasons I gave above.

If you want to use a USB-C battery pack to charge an iPhone, you need to buy an adapter.

News flash: There's a USB-C to lighting cables made by apple. No adapter needed. Again, another false statement.

The latest iPhones will charge off my USB-A battery pack using only what came in the iPhone box, but not your USB-C junker. You are way over the line of rational thought now.

Have fun trying to charge your MacBook with a USB-A battery while my USB-C battery pack charges my 2018 MacBook Pro at the full 87W speed. Oh wait, that's right, you can't charge your MacBook with your USB-A battery due to the lack of USB-PD. Again, another BAD statement. I'm getting tired at this point.

3 years in and it's still very hard to find any USB-C devices. USB-A are still, as you say, ubiquitous, and speed-wise USB-A has no problem keeping up with the USB 3.2 generation as well as being backwards compatible to USB 1. The only sure thing is that USB-C was yet another DOA mistake on the part of Timmy and Co. and will be quietly swept under the rug with the emojibar in a few years.

Name one popular consumer tech accessory that everyone uses but that does not have a USB-C version. Pretty sure that'll take you all night to research which will end up with nothing. That's because all major products have USB-C counterparts.

I'm just glad you'll never be a person that designs these things because all of your suggestions would result in the worst possible product.

Feel free to reply, but it sounds like you're just another MacRumors forum member that unreasonably blames Tim Cook for everything so I'm not going to bother reading anymore from you. Instead, I'm going to click the ignore button on your profile. See ya.

 

[DevNull0]

That doesn't explain what you mean by "literally no excuse".
If you mix USB-A and USB-C, you'll have two types dongles to convert one to the other and vice versa. Bad UX. One excuse is to improve this experience. Immediately you're wrong here.

You're suggesting a mix of flavors for USB-A and USB-C which means users will be asking for a dongle to convert USB-A to USB-C and USB-C to USB-A (one user may have 3 USB-A devices and another will probably have 3 USB-C devices). What you're asking for is even more of a crippled experience by suggesting the world should have these two types of dongles.

I never said or suggested any such things. Your attempts at reductio ad absurdum are especially bad because you seem to be projected your own arguments onto me and trying to show they're ridiculous. I don't even understand what you mean by dongles to convert back and forth -- your position is very confused. My 2011 MBP had 2 USB-A ports, I never had to convert firewire to USB-A. I don't know what you seem to be talking about. Yet your saying I suggested it? If USB-C did not exist on the mac, things would be better. If you insist on having USB-C, having both ports on the machine would be ideal, just as USB existed alongside firewire in the past. That way, apple's stillborn standards didn't cripple the machine.

And like you said, USB-A is currently ubiquitous, so for you to ask for USB-C cables in an iPhone doesn't make sense since it goes against your thesis.

Apple ships a computer that only supports USB-C and a phone that doesn't have a USB-C cable because almost nobody uses USB-C. How can you have those two ideas in your head within a single sentence and not see how ridiculous they are together. Unbelievable.

I said "You just made that data up I believe." which implies that there was nothing that you experienced that would suggest that USB-C is less adopted.

"Seems" and "perception" implies that there was something that you witnessed, reliable or not, to suggest that USB-C is less adopted. So which is it?

Wow....wow...wow...wow. Do you honestly believe that you can't believe something to be true without absolute proof? Then please provide me absolute proof that nobody is able to believe anything without proof. Since you've said you believe that to be true you must have proof for that belief.

Life is deciding what you believe based on what you see an experience without proof. I believe stock X will go up tomorrow so I will buy it today. I don't have proof yet I am acting on my belief and I can also articulate the belief without facts to support it. I can't prove the stock will go up. When discussing sports with my friends I can say I believe team Y will win tonight's game and they will accept I have basis for my belief, even though that team may well not win.

News flash: There's a USB-C to lighting cables made by apple. No adapter needed. Again, another false statement.

Wow. What is your definition of adaptor? Because a cable that connects to USB-C at one end and lightning at the other is....wait for it....a USB-C to lightning adaptor. See how that works? It's the fact that that adaptor is necessary to connect apple's latest iPhone to apple's latest computers and yet sold separately that is beyond pathetic.

And have fun trying to charge your MacBook with a USB-A....

You may be the only person on the entire planet that thinks getting rid of magsafe was not a negative change. Are you Timmy?

Name one popular consumer tech accessory that everyone uses but that does not have a USB-C version. Pretty sure that'll take you all night to research which will end up with nothing. That's because all major products have USB-C counterparts.

Really, you want to go there? So are you saying that iPhone is not popular? Or that iPhone is not a major tech product?

And you were wrong about it taking all night to research. Yet another thing you said that was wrong. Of course I could come up with dozens of other items in a few minutes as well but you will simply say they are not popular. Or make up other silly excuses like you're about to do for the iPhone.

 

[Abazigal]

You may be the only person on the entire planet that thinks getting rid of magsafe was not a negative change. Are you Timmy?

MagSafe did have its advantages, but I won't say that the change was entirely without merit. Users can now charge their laptops from either side (rather than be restricted to the left of your laptop). When not charging, that is one extra USB-C port which can be repurposed for some other use case.

You win some and you lose some.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

MagSafe did have its advantages, but I won't say that the change was entirely without merit. Users can now charge their laptops from either side (rather than be restricted to the left of your laptop)...

Would love to see how you charge the MacBook (2015-) or the MacBook Air (2018) "from either side".

 

[Abazigal]

Would love to see how you charge the MacBook (2015-) or the MacBook Air (2018) "from either side".

View attachment 824005 View attachment 824006

There are still the 13" and 15" MBPs with touchbar, which have 2 USB-C ports on each of the two sides.

In the very least, with the single-port Macbook, you are still able to get display, power and data through a single USB-C cable. Even with the old thunderbolt display, you still needed 2 cables, so it's still an improvement nevertheless.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

There are still the 13" and 15" MBPs with touchbar, which have 2 USB-C ports on each of the two sides.

In the very least, with the single-port Macbook, you are still able to get display, power and data through a single USB-C cable. Even with the old thunderbolt display, you still needed 2 cables, so it's still an improvement nevertheless.

You made an ex-cathedra statement in post #360 (namely: "Users can now charge their laptops from either side (rather than be restricted to the left of your laptop)") that was proven wrong.
Accept it.

What concerns the multiple functions of USB-C type ports there is no disagreement, though I consider the omission of MagSafe a mistake.

 

[Abazigal]

You made an ex-cathedra statement in post #360 (namely: "Users can now charge their laptops from either side (rather than be restricted to the left of your laptop)") that was proven wrong.
Accept it.

What concerns the multiple functions of USB-C type ports there is no disagreement, though I consider the omission of MagSafe a mistake.

The fact is that there are MacBooks which do allow for charging from either side. I suppose if you want to nitpick and focus on the wrong aspect of the discussion (that there is an exception to the rule), rather than whether this added versatility is worth the loss of MagSafe), then yeah, consider me wrong. Point noted. I will be more specific with my wording in future.

Personally, I do feel that with usb c, there is really no place for a dedicated charging port, even if it is something as useful as MagSafe. Maybe Apple will find some way to integrate magsafe back into usb c in the future, but right now, that ship has sailed.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

The fact is that there are MacBooks which do allow for charging from either side. I suppose if you want to nitpick and focus on the wrong aspect of the discussion (that there is an exception to the rule), rather than whether this added versatility is worth the loss of MagSafe), then yeah, consider me wrong. Point noted. I will be more specific with my wording in future.

Personally, I do feel that with usb c, there is really no place for a dedicated charging port, even if it is something as useful as MagSafe. Maybe Apple will find some way to integrate magsafe back into usb c in the future, but right now, that ship has sailed.

To be precise currently there is only one MacBook line out of three that allows charging from either side.
I reflected on the subject that you have brought up in your post #360 as an argument. Next time, please warn beforehand what do you consider amongst your arguments as a "wrong aspect of the discussion".

What concerns MagSafe vs USB-C. I agree with you completely, USB-C type port is versatile. Nevertheless, I consider MagSafe extremely useful and practical. And as such not worth omitting.

 

[DevNull0]

MagSafe did have its advantages, but I won't say that the change was entirely without merit. Users can now charge their laptops from either side (rather than be restricted to the left of your laptop). When not charging, that is one extra USB-C port which can be repurposed for some other use case.

You win some and you lose some.

My non-emojibar mac only charges from the left side. As do the MB and MBA lines. So you agree it's lose-lose for all but the most expensive macbook pros?

Also, I'm just curious, do you not agree that magsafe was still a better charging port than the new usb-c charging? My 2011 MBP is going strong, the charger holds and works as well as the day i bought it. My 2017 MBP, the charging ports already feel like crap; I try to use both to charge so wear will be more even, but they're already loose and wearing out. It's really not too bad yet, but I can't imagine this mac will still be functional at the age the 2011 is right now. I'll probably still be using the 2011 model long after the 2017 is landfill.

 

[farewelwilliams]

MagSafe did have its advantages, but I won't say that the change was entirely without merit. Users can now charge their laptops from either side (rather than be restricted to the left of your laptop). When not charging, that is one extra USB-C port which can be repurposed for some other use case.

You win some and you lose some.

Exactly. And MagSafe couldn’t be charged via usb battery packs. And plenty of devices like EGPU provide power over USBC/TB3 so there’s no dedicated power cable needed at all.

MagSafe is dead but yet some people in these forums are afraid of change it seems.
[doublepost=1551469534][/doublepost]

To be precise currently there is only one MacBook line out of three that allows charging from either side.
I reflected on the subject that you have brought up in your post #360 as an argument. Next time, please warn beforehand what do you consider amongst your arguments as a "wrong aspect of the discussion".

What concerns MagSafe vs USB-C. I agree with you completely, USB-C type port is versatile. Nevertheless, I consider MagSafe extremely useful and practical. And as such not worth omitting.

there are magsafe like USB-C cables. essentially you can replicate the magsafe experience with it so there’s little to no reason to want the magsafe port any longer

 

[Abazigal]

My non-emojibar mac only charges from the left side. As do the MB and MBA lines. So you agree it's lose-lose for all but the most expensive macbook pros?

Also, I'm just curious, do you not agree that magsafe was still a better charging port than the new usb-c charging? My 2011 MBP is going strong, the charger holds and works as well as the day i bought it. My 2017 MBP, the charging ports already feel like crap; I try to use both to charge so wear will be more even, but they're already loose and wearing out. It's really not too bad yet, but I can't imagine this mac will still be functional at the age the 2011 is right now. I'll probably still be using the 2011 model long after the 2017 is landfill.

My point is and always has been the same - you win some, and you lose some. So everyone's mileage is going to vary.

But you all have a valid point in that when crafting my response, I was considering mainly the touchbar MBPs, and I suppose I have been quite terse in my last response (sincerest apologies to @Ulenspiegel), so let's go one step further and see how the inclusion of an additional MagSafe port might affect the design of the respective products.

1-port Macbook - given that it has space for just 1 port, USB-C seems like the natural successor to MagSafe. With a USB-C monitor or the appropriate adaptor, you get data, display and power over 1 cable. Consider the older Thunderbolt Display which required you to plug in two cables to achieve the same outcome. This is an improvement in convenience (you need to only plug in one cable where you previously needed two). Let's say you put MagSafe on the left. Where would you put the other USB-C port? On the right? Where would that leave the headphone jack?

2-port MBP / MBA - Are you sure you would prefer 1 magsafe and 1 USB-C port over 2 USB-C ports? Given the lack lack of space, it make sense to ensure that every port that is included is as multi-purpose as possible. The opportunity cost of including magsafe here is an additional port that could be used to connect to a monitor, charge your iPhone or plug in a flash drive when needed.

4-port MBPs - 3 possible scenarios.

1) 3 USB-C ports and 1 magsafe - given Apple's focus on taking away everything that isn't necessary to the core design of the product, including MagSafe feels redundant when you have 3 other ports that perform the same purpose - charge your laptop. And it's not like I can connect an additional USB-C adaptor or peripheral to the magsafe charging port if I find myself needing that extra 4th port.

2) 4 USB-C ports and 1 magsafe - same criticism as above. Is there even space for a dedicated charging port in addition to everything else?

3) 4 USB-C ports (which is what Apple has gone with) - you effectively have no wrong port, with the ability to use any of the 4 ports for the same purpose. Be it charging, running 5k displays, connecting a dock, thunderbolt 3 is the perfect port to go all-in on.

As for where I personally stand on the matter, my view is - good riddance. Good riddance to magsafe. Good riddance to USB-A. Good riddance to HDMI. Good riddance to SD. Good riddance to it all.

The four Thunderbolt 3 ports are easily the most versatile port ever shipped in a notebook, and they are likely the most powerful ports ever created. This is the future of computing - impressive power in a thin and light package that can tether to an ultra-powerful rig when needed. What we are looking at is essentially a lesson in long-term gain for short-term pain. Carrying adapters and losing magsafe is a current annoyance that even the best of us have to endure, but the future is very, very bright for Thunderbolt 3, and I look forward to the potential it unlocks.

 

[DeeEss]

This is outright BS and the total ignorance and arrogance to suggest that his customers are stupid enough to fall for this nonsense is shocking.

A COO who underestimates their customer is a dead man walking and this companies success is on borrowed time.

 

[PickUrPoison]

<snip>
It is pathetic that in 2019 you cannot connect the most Apple sold product, the iPhone to your own computer.
That shows, the incompetence of Apple engineering team.

What’s pathetic is your claiming that you can’t connect the iPhone to a MBP that only has USB-C ports.

Why do you continue to post this lie, I already corrected you several weeks ago:

<snip>
Also, there’s no need to post/repeat wrong information like “you cannot even connect the best selling product from the same company (iPhone)” and “It is quite pathetic that you cannot connect Apple best selling product to your own computer.” As I corrected you, it certainly is possible—with just a simple cable. No adapters are necessary.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-at-slight-loss.2168059/page-21#post-27066137


I even provided a nice picture from the Apple store, maybe this will refresh your memory?

 

[tallscot]

slightly disagree. for future products, USB-C is key. iPad Pro with USB-C is only the start (and it's a huge win for UX)
[doublepost=1551390879][/doublepost]
I think you're misunderstanding me. What I'm saying is if you you have 2xUSB-A ports and 2xUSB-C ports along with 3xUSB-A devices and 3xUSB-C devices, I'll need double adapters.

Example: So in order to use 3 USB-A devices simultaneously, I'll need one adapter (USB-A female to USB-C male). In order to use 3 USB-C devices simultaneously, I'll need a different adapter (USB-C female to USB-A male). So now you have two different adapters. That's extremely ridiculous. Just go all in on USB-C and deal with one type of adapter (USB-A female to USB-C male).

Not to mention, if you had 2xUSB-A and 2xUSB-C, you'll likely be using 1 USB-C for power and 1 USB-C for video out which will discourage buying USB-C devices in general. That'll keep USB-A alive longer which isn't good.

Thunderbolt 3 can be daisy chained up to 6 devices.

I’ve seen an Alienware on set that has 3 USB 3 ports and a Thunderbolt 3 port. RED card reader is only USB 3, so that took one port. Mouse another USB port. External hard drive was Thunderbolt 3. That’s it. If it was a Mac, we’d have a TB 3 > USB hub for the reader and mouse.

At home, my kids bring usb thumb drives from school.

Sometimes, my clients use thumb drives when I’m on-site.

I don’t want a laptop that creates a problem for me to “encourage” developers to adopt the latest tech. It just “discourages” me from buying that laptop. We didn’t. We bought the Macbook Pro model before the new one, right when the new one came out - because of the ports.

BTW, my wife uses an HP laptop for her work. I bought a dock for it and set up a desk in our house with mouse, keyboard, Dell monitor. She just plugs the laptop into the dock and sits down and it fires up in the Dell monitor. I have no clue why Apple ditched the dock. I remember the first one with the Duo. Innovative.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Thunderbolt 3 can be daisy chained up to 6 devices.

I’ve seen an Alienware on set that has 3 USB 3 ports and a Thunderbolt 3 port. RED card reader is only USB 3, so that took one port. Mouse another USB port. External hard drive was Thunderbolt 3. That’s it. If it was a Mac, we’d have a TB 3 > USB hub for the reader and mouse.

At home, my kids bring usb thumb drives from school.

Sometimes, my clients use thumb drives when I’m on-site.

I don’t want a laptop that creates a problem for me to “encourage” developers to adopt the latest tech. It just “discourages” me from buying that laptop. We didn’t. We bought the Macbook Pro model before the new one, right when the new one came out - because of the ports.

BTW, my wife uses an HP laptop for her work. I bought a dock for it and set up a desk in our house with mouse, keyboard, Dell monitor. She just plugs the laptop into the dock and sits down and it fires up in the Dell monitor. I have no clue why Apple ditched the dock. I remember the first one with the Duo. Innovative.

It's been a few days since we discussed this so I don't recall the context of why you're bringing up Thunderbolt 3. All 4 ports on the Mac are TB3. And if you had 2xUSB-A and 2xUSB-C ports, you wouldn't have 4xTB3 ports since TB3 only works over the USB-C port.

I also don't recall what Apple dock you're talking about (did Apple ever make a dock?) but maybe I just haven't had my coffee yet. EDIT: I just googled it. Looks like these docks were before my time. Regardless, I think docks may be on their way out. Monitors are adopting displayport over USB-C with extra ports on the back of the monitor so it acts like a dock with a single connecting cable. My LG Ultrafine 4k monitor connects over USB-C and has 3 extra USB-C ports on the back in which I connect ethernet and 2x portable hard drives to it. It also powers my Macbook.

 

[tallscot]

It's been a few days since we discussed this so I don't recall the context of why you're bringing up Thunderbolt 3. All 4 ports on the Mac are TB3. And if you had 2xUSB-A and 2xUSB-C ports, you wouldn't have 4xTB3 ports since TB3 only works over the USB-C port.

I also don't recall what Apple dock you're talking about (did Apple ever make a dock?) but maybe I just haven't had my coffee yet. EDIT: I just googled it. Looks like these docks were before my time. Regardless, I think docks may be on their way out. Monitors are adopting displayport over USB-C with extra ports on the back of the monitor so it acts like a dock with a single connecting cable. My LG Ultrafine 4k monitor connects over USB-C and has 3 extra USB-C ports on the back in which I connect ethernet and 2x portable hard drives to it. It also powers my Macbook.

I said I wanted more ports on a pro laptop and I think you were trying to convince me I don’t?

Duo with dock was the bomb! (I’m 51)

 

[DeepIn2U]

Wanna explain why macOS has been ignored for years if you care so much about products? It still has bugs from years ago that have never been patched, forget new features.
Why has the Mac Pro still not received an update? Why is the MacBook Pro forcefully sold with a Touch Bar? If you care so much about your products why are you still selling the 6th Generation iPod Touch or the 4th Generation iPad Mini? There are so many segments of Apple's product line that show a complete lack of care and attention to detail compared to just 10 years ago.

Simple explanation:

Changing OSX (suposed to last 20yrs by Jobs statement at launch), to macOS for nostalgia and stupid cause it revokes a dead OS get it?

More simplistic explanation:
Federighi !
- sudo terminal failure where macOS shipped with no default admin pw LMAO!! And THIS guy is in charge of macOS?! Compare that to Bertrand Serlet and this never happened under his watch. In fact OS X back the. Got real tangible feature sets not a Touch Bar which barely escapes emoji advertisement. Has so much potential but meh.
More bugs which are eye opening, yet default system admin really should be the very first thing checked before getting the check box marked for golden master.

Too much old brass not enough real energetic & fruitfully intelligent young blood climbing internal ladder to really push Apple forward.

Samsung has Dex! That along makes Android really interesting and worth close to iPhone XS pricing cause at least you have a real desktop experience not a screen mirrored. Why the hell can we not have OS X via USB-C or lightning for desktop mode? Oh wait Apple wants iOS apps on desktop ?!
[doublepost=1551758672][/doublepost]

You are correct about heaviness; however, steel alloys have considerable more durability than aluminum variants. Aluminum has two pluses: light weight and rust resistance. Just look at bicycle manufacturers. Aluminum is lighter, but aluminum tubing must be larger in circumference than steel tubes to adjust for strength/stress issues. Titanium is probably the best of all worlds - fairly light weight, rust resistant, and strong. Its main drawback is high price. Pro cyclists rarely ever use steel anymore, generally preferring carbon fiber with aluminum being second in preference. They also have the luxury of only needing their bicycles to last through one racing season. Sporting autos also use carbon fiber and aluminum for the same reasons - light weight and corrosion resistance, but not for durability. Bent or dented aluminum or cracked carbon fiber is next to impossible to repair, but that's a secondary issue for people who purchase products made of these materials. It makes a lot of sense to construct laptops with either aluminum or carbon - their light weight and corrosion resistance, combined with relative low stress in common use, make them good choices.

You mention aluminum as a choice for making laptops due to corrosion. Laptops should never be in a state to corrode until after a decade in humid environments.

Apple seals and solders storage on board and it’s not for any reason other than to lock you in for any high cost repair for replacement or within a few short years full upgrade. If Apple made their MBPs with splash or spill resistance that would be great for their current cost. As it stands it’s ridiculous.

 

[farewelwilliams]

I said I wanted more ports on a pro laptop and I think you were trying to convince me I don’t?

Duo with dock was the bomb! (I’m 51)

You're saying the Alienware that has 3 USB-A 3.0 ports and a thunderbolt 3 port...Macbook Pro has 4 USB-C ports where all are Thunderbolt 3 capable (so essentially you have 4x thunderbolt 3 ports). Not sure how Alienware is considered "more"