Apple COO Jeff Williams 'Very Aware Of' Concerns Over Apple Product Cost

[StellarVixen]

You’ve got to pay for leading tech like folding screens and 5G and hyper wide camera 180 degree photography ... oh no. That’s the others isn’t it? Still. Some great Emojis on the way!.

No way, these forums would be set on fire if Apple released ~$3000 foldable phone.

Wide angle camera is incoming on 2019 iPhones. 5G infrastructure is still not there, and it is Intel's fault 5G chips are still not available.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

This is just pure BS and corporate deflection.

Every time price comes up it’s the same comments from Apple. Analysts don’t know what they’re talking about and R&D costs come up. Every other tech company like Samsung, Huawei etc all have R&D costs. Yet their products are still cheaper than Apples.

If you think about it Samsung likes to cram the latest stuff into their phones whereas Apple likes to wait for that technology to be refined or become more mainstream. So you would think Samsungs costs would be higher implementing that newer technology sooner whereas by the time Apple do its been refined and probably reduced some of the manufacturing costs.

The Samsung Galaxy S10+ with 1TB storage and 12GB RAM is £1399 in the UK which is still cheaper than Apples iPhone XS Max with 512GB storage at £1449. This just shows how Apple is ripping off customers with its SSD pricing. On top of being cheaper if I pre-order the Samsung S10+ I get the Galaxy Buds that were announced at the same time for free!

 

[DamoTheBrave]

The iPhone XS entry level model costs more than $1800 in Australia. That is elitist.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

It's funny to me that people nowadays are so quick to criticize Apple and their products' prices. Apparently I'm old because I remember when Apple was a luxury brand... I mean, even the first iPhone was $699 for the 8GB model... something that was UNHEARD of at the time. I mean, I switched to that phone from a Motorola V600 which was, what, $160 at the time? And I went from a behemoth Gateway laptop that was huge and made out of plastic for somewhere around $550 to a 12" PowerBook G4 that was around $1,200. You're paying for not only performance, but the quality. I'm typing this on a 2013 MacBook Pro and I don't see myself getting rid of it anytime soon because it runs flawlessly and probably will for at least a few more years. And not only that, but when I *do* decide to upgrade to something new, I can guarantee that I'll be able to sell this laptop for at LEAST a third of what I originally paid for it... if not more. The resale value never seems to cross critics' minds for some reason.

It's entertaining because nowadays, everyone has/wants/needs a computer for their everyday lives, so everyone just assumes that every computer (or phone, or tablet, or whatever) should be priced to fit everyone's budget. That's just not how things work, whether millennials want to accept it or not. Want a cheap laptop? Go to Dell. Want a cheap phone? Check out Motorola. What a cheap tablet? Go to Costco and get some Amazon Kindle Fire Tablet Alexa blah blah blah. Want performance and quality and something that will cause you the least amount of headaches? Then work a few hours overtime and buy that Apple device you're complaining that you can't afford.
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If you're willing to spend a grand on a phone, a $15 charger isn't going to sway your decision. And here: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch-space-gray-2.3ghz-dual-core-128gb# ... literally right on Apple's website, a MacBook Pro without a Touch Bar, and it's not even in the refurb store (where there are more options).

The fact Apple is too stingy to include a $15 charger is more telling.

That MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar gets you an inferior graphics card and two less cores on the processor compared with the Touch Bar models.

In terms of Apple quality that hasn’t been up to scratch for a while now. I’ve returned many Macs, iPhones etc multiple times for defects. Most recently I’ve had to return 7 iPhone XS Max’s for scratched glass, misshapen stainless steel or gaps between the steel and glass.
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Wanna explain why macOS has been ignored for years if you care so much about products? It still has bugs from years ago that have never been patched, forget new features.
Why has the Mac Pro still not received an update? Why is the MacBook Pro forcefully sold with a Touch Bar? If you care so much about your products why are you still selling the 6th Generation iPod Touch or the 4th Generation iPad Mini? There are so many segments of Apple's product line that show a complete lack of care and attention to detail compared to just 10 years ago.

Not to mention selling those products at their current prices when taking into account how old the technology is inside them. The Mac Pro has 6 year old processors now!

 

[Abazigal]

People complain, and still enough consumers buy Apple products to make it insanely profitable every quarter.

What sort of lesson are you all expecting Apple to take away here?

 

[Winni]

osx used to be reliable to the point of insanity, now it's garbage.

There never was a reality when this was actually true. I've been using every release of OS X since Panther, and they all sucked in their respective ways and had their individual quirks, instabilities and bugs. There never was a time in which macOS/OS X actually was more stable or more robust than the NT-based Windows branches.

 

[44267547]

Hmm...a $1500 Hermès Apple Watch...no, you don’t want to be an elitist company.

I’m sure there was a lot of R&D involved there to justify its marked up price.

The is a poor example you chose for the Hermès Apple Watch. Let me explain.... [Also, the Hermès Apple Watch models start at $1299 and range to $1500 pending the band included].

Apple partnered with Hermes for an exclusive offering with that specific Apple Watch for a leather band, the box and a custom watch face. If you look at the price of Hermes leather band, they are priced extremely exorbitant, so when you factor in the cost of the Apple Watch, the Hermes leather band, the box and the branding, that’s literally what you’re paying for, it’s not just Apple ‘marking up’ that product when you factor in what Hermes charges also for their bands alone.

The Hermès Apple Watch really is intended for those who specifically want the highest quality leather band and branding, that’s it. Apple has their other Apple Watches priced where most purchase the aluminum, as they all experience the same watchOS. That’s what you’re not factoring into your post.

 

[Manzanito]

People complain, and still enough consumers buy Apple products to make it insanely profitable every quarter.

What sort of lesson are you all expecting Apple to take away here?

It’s the own apple the one who isn’t happy about its performance lately, it seems.

I know every company in the world would be over the moon if they had the results apple had last quarter, but the question is if last quarter was just an anomaly or if apple is declining. I think it’s the later, and apple is right in some of the rationalizations they offered, but refuse to acknowledge some of the reasons. Point in case, you can’t keep removing functionality, lowering quality and increasing price and expect a rise in sold units, like they did with the macbook pro.

 

[Abazigal]

It’s the own apple the one who isn’t happy about its performance lately, it seems.

I know every company in the world would be over the moon if they had the results apple had last quarter, but the question is if last quarter was just an anomaly or if apple is declining. I think it’s the later, and apple is right in some of the rationalizations they offered, but refuse to acknowledge some of the reasons. Point in case, you can’t keep removing functionality, lowering quality and increasing price and expect a rise in sold units, like they did with the macbook pro.

I won’t comment on removing functionality and lower quality, but I did mention in numerous earlier threads that I believe what Apple is doing is the right thing in today’s climate.

In a nutshell, as Apple’s growth stagnates, the next best thing to do is to focus inwards and further monetise their existing user base. This means more hardware, higher prices, and more services.

Unsurprisingly, this comment wasn’t very popular, because people think it seems to vindicate what Apple is doing, but I feel that it’s really the only option available to Apple at this point, until they find a new market to break into (which I believe is wearables).

Not liking what Apple is doing doesn’t mean they aren’t doing what’s best for them. Where this leads Apple, however, well, that’s anyone’s guess.

 

[DNichter]

As they should. This happens with new tech introduced. The same thing happened when the MacBook Air came out, super high cost, everyone freaked out, the rest of the market copied the design, and then Apple slowly dropped the cost back to normal levels once manufacturing improved. Same deal with the iPhone X. History repeats itself and people are still losing their minds.

 

[timber]

The question wasn't very well put. It was almost as the answer was included in it.

The problem with Apple's prices starts in its absolute number. It is a second or third order question if R&D is high or low, margins high or low or whatever.

They are very high numbers, across the board (plain iPad being the exception) and have only been getting higher.

 

[applepuree]

I love my iMac, and the MacOS, but now that I want to replace it, looking at the prices there is no way I can afford to do so. I feel almost like they are as out of reach as the original Macintosh from way back when. So my only option is to continue with my dated system until it dies then see what other options will work for me.

Due to my 3 main uses, an iPad is not an option.

 

[NBAasDOGG]

Apple aware of low prices?.... lel...

 

[BritishApple]

It's funny to me that people nowadays are so quick to criticize Apple and their products' prices. Apparently I'm old because I remember when Apple was a luxury brand... I mean, even the first iPhone was $699 for the 8GB model... something that was UNHEARD of at the time. I mean, I switched to that phone from a Motorola V600 which was, what, $160 at the time? And I went from a behemoth Gateway laptop that was huge and made out of plastic for somewhere around $550 to a 12" PowerBook G4 that was around $1,200. You're paying for not only performance, but the quality. I'm typing this on a 2013 MacBook Pro and I don't see myself getting rid of it anytime soon because it runs flawlessly and probably will for at least a few more years. And not only that, but when I *do* decide to upgrade to something new, I can guarantee that I'll be able to sell this laptop for at LEAST a third of what I originally paid for it... if not more. The resale value never seems to cross critics' minds for some reason.

It's entertaining because nowadays, everyone has/wants/needs a computer for their everyday lives, so everyone just assumes that every computer (or phone, or tablet, or whatever) should be priced to fit everyone's budget. That's just not how things work, whether millennials want to accept it or not. Want a cheap laptop? Go to Dell. Want a cheap phone? Check out Motorola. What a cheap tablet? Go to Costco and get some Amazon Kindle Fire Tablet Alexa blah blah blah. Want performance and quality and something that will cause you the least amount of headaches? Then work a few hours overtime and buy that Apple device you're complaining that you can't afford.
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If you're willing to spend a grand on a phone, a $15 charger isn't going to sway your decision. And here: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch-space-gray-2.3ghz-dual-core-128gb# ... literally right on Apple's website, a MacBook Pro without a Touch Bar, and it's not even in the refurb store (where there are more options).

As an old timer myself I share the sentiment of your opening paragraphs, but I’m afraid you’re now blinded by the past, as was I for too long.

Apple used to represent quality, but they don’t now. My Alu iMac is from 2008 and still going strong. I wonder how many of these iMacs sold today will be working as well in a decade. I’d wager the failure rate to be far higher.

iPhone 6 and touch IC “disease”, iPhone 7 and audio IC disease, both swept under the rug, both manufacturing issues, both used to try and entice upgrades by asking extortionate repair/replacement fees for a fault that had nothing to do with the user.

I used to defend Apple to the hilt, championed them to friends and family and wouldn’t hear a wrong word said ... them I woke up to reality.

The numbers guy in charge is a walking Jobs soundboard. He uses the quotes but he doesn’t live them; because he can’t, or simply doesn’t know how. Cook is not a product guy.

 

[tubomac]

Another liar, just like his accomplice Tim.
Nobody can deny that Apple watch required a lot of R&D and bla, bla bla.....but nothing can justify the complete absence of cables, dongles etc... in any product delivered at the moment. Even last Apple pencil is not only more expensive but they also stopped giving a spare tip. Anything now at Apple is about raising price and cannibalize things put in the boxes. The imperative for Apple is squeeze every penny they can from customers who need spare accessories. And no Apple, you are not the most innovative company anymore. There are other companies who innovate more and are more generous with their customers and they don't treat them like cows when they need a SSD or a memory upgrade.

 

[timborama]

Apple was producing higher quality products a decade ago with the fraction of the workforce. They need to cut the staff bloat, and maybe then quality will go up and even possibly prices can recede.

 

[RowellE]

Hi Jeff, one iPhone costs one grand, two for 2, and 3 for 3.... simple right? The thing is we do have to replace 3 iPhones in short, very short period of time, and periodically. And MacBooks, speakers, watches. They add up. You knew that, for sure, right? Good. Great!

You don’t “have to replace” your Apple products in such a “short, very short period of time, and periodically.” If you feel the need to upgrade your tech with each new iteration and are mad about it, don’t blame Apple, that’s *your* problem. You knew that, for sure, right? Good. Great!

 

[UK-MacAddict]

As they should. This happens with new tech introduced. The same thing happened when the MacBook Air came out, super high cost, everyone freaked out, the rest of the market copied the design, and then Apple slowly dropped the cost back to normal levels once manufacturing improved. Same deal with the iPhone X. History repeats itself and people are still losing their minds.

MacBook Air prices dropped immediately with the 2nd generation. The iPhone XS Max just went up in price with little change.

 

[farewelwilliams]

I recently needed a new keyboard with numeric keypad. Apple discontinued the wired version and is now selling the “magic” keyboard for 150€. How much R&D do you need for a Bluetooth keyboard to sell it for 150€? This is ridiculous ...
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That’s what PR would say...

If you're complaining about price, why would you want an Apple branded keyboard? You do know you can plug in any keyboard. Plenty of third party Mac keyboards work and are quite cheap.

From what I've seen, all Logitech keyboards (and most of their other products) and most other third party companies use materials that California considers to be toxic (prop 65, BPA plastics, etc...), but the materials are cheaper so it costs less to the customer. Apple doesn't use those chemicals or those types of plastics which is why it's more expensive. I don't think I've ever seen a prop 65 warning on any of Apple's products ever, but take a look at nearly any Logitech product and you'll see that prop 65 warning somewhere on the box.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Apple products used to lower a little in price with each new generation during the Steve Jobs era. This makes more sense since the technology inside especially on S generations are refined versions of previous years product.

The iPhone XS should have lowered in price not increase by another £100 here in the UK.

 

[kdarling]

Dear COO,

Stop treating your customers as ignorant sheep.

Even kids know that your huge profits come AFTER the R&D is already accounted for.

The Jobs RDF shield is long gone. You new Emperors have no clothes and everyone can see it.

 

[cosmichobo]

Dismissing huge margins by citing stuff like R&D etc ... meanwhile, just look at the actual profits (profit, not revenue) they have according to their own earning reports. The whole argument falls apart when looking at the actual numbers.

Example: NOTHING can justify the ridiculous SSD upgrade prices (even with same performance metrics) but pure greed. Greed which begins to damage their image.

As long as I can remember (by which I mean - early 90s), Apple have charged a premium for "their" RAM / HDDs etc etc. So - their SSD pricing is nothing new. Has it damaged Apple's image? Sadly I don't think it's a huge factor in people's pocket choices. Apple still has a huge market share in most everything it does.

Sure - I'd love for Apple to charge realistic prices for its upgrade paths... but it isn't going to happen, and probably wont even be an option before long anyways.

 

[MoreRumors?]

It's simple. If the prices are too high don't buy it. If the products don't meet your needs or value, don't buy it. When less people buy Apple products and the revenue goes down for consecutive quarters, I can't see them sitting idly and not doing anything. Look at the current iPhones, Apple lowered prices in China and offer trade-in program here in the U.S. Let's see what happen for the next quarter results.

 

[Martius]

R&D is one thing, but selling 1TB for $900-1000 in 2019 is a pure greed. What a liar... !

...Well, he might not be a liar, maybe he believes he's telling the truth.

 

[DNichter]

MacBook Air prices dropped immediately with the 2nd generation. The iPhone XS Max just went up in price with little change.

It was released in 2008 for I think $1799, dropped to $1,299 2 years later in 2010, then I think back acceptable levels in 2012. So about 4 years to recover back to consumer levels. The XR was already a step back in cost so they are ahead of schedule.

This isn’t an exact science by the way. Just an example of costs coming down, which obviously will happen.