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You forgot that the iPad does not play HD video, while a netbook can do at least HD 720p.

Steve Jobs needs to stop smoking that good stuff and get a reality check.

According to Steve the iPad is great for video, sure if you only plan on viewing mp4 content. Forget flash, avi or any other codec for that matter. All are inferior, however it's still great for video and the web. Seems people are finally waking up from the RFD effect.

I like the iPad, however will not buy it until it plays nice with other formats.
 
I have Flash disabled on Safari (ClickToFlash). How do I like it? MUCH BETTER.

Congratulations. But clicktoflash is different than how flash is NOT implemented for the iPhone, Touch and apparently iPad. ClickToFlash would be a GREAT solution for this line of products. That way when someone wanted to check out some Flash pieces, they could. It would be THEIR option, just like it is yours. With these products, Apple is deciding for buyers of these products. That's a BIG difference.

As an Articulate user myself, your argument makes no sense. Before tools like Articulate, you needed a Flash programmer to create something that Articulate now automates. Why couldn't there be a tool that did the same for HTML5 without an HTML programmer? Think please.

I am thinking. If by "user" you mean "developer" (someone who uses the tool), then why do you like Safari much better without Flash, yet develop Flash-based media with Articulate. And if clicktoflash is NEVER clicked to play Flash, how do you take a look at your Articulate creations?

HTML5 alone won't be enough to duplicate Flash renders from programs like Articulate. You would also very likely need Javascript and H.264. In unison, those won't all go into one nice little container, they'll have to be integrated to work together. So even if Articulate and similar would choose to support HTML5 + Javascript + H.264 renders, it would likely be much more complicated for users of those programs to deal with the end result of their work.

Completely incorrect. Flash Player on OS X sucks (as does the Linux version, I've heard). You're in a very small minority if you think Flash is "fine" on Macs.

Eye of the beholder. Flash plays back Flash-created content fine on Macs. Does it play it as smoothly as it does on Windows? No. But it plays back fine enough that Mac users can get the media experience targeted by the developer. How well does HTML5 + javascript + H.264 play back cross platform and cross browser?

Laughably wrong. I don't want any proprietary technologies controlled by a single company dominating the Web. Period. I don't care what Apple thinks. Though apparently on this issue they agree with me.

But you're fine with Apple making such decisions for you. You're fine with them deciding which apps you may use and which you may not? You're fine with them deciding you can use one company's 3G network but not anothers for you? You're fine with them letting one codec work but not another? Etc? Apple is the ultimate control-oriented company. Yet their proprietary stuff is fine, while others is not?

Your playing the "fanboy card" on this argument is weak and ignorant. I've been hating Flash on OS X (thus resenting its stranglehold on the Web) long before the iPhone came along.

Oh, I'm sorry. Apparently, I should have checked with you first. YOU are the authority on what is good and what is bad about technologies. My mistake. I thought each person could decide for themselves such things. All hail LagunaSol!

Again, these would have been very difficult to do in Flash without having to use a capable programmer before Articulate came along, though I can't believe I have to point this simple fact out to you. Who will be the Articulate of HTML5? Someone will be. Perhaps Articulate themselves Absurd.

I doubt that all that Articulate to Flash can do can be replicated in just HTML5... especially when we factor in the breadth of platforms and browser compatibilities. HTML5 won't even be out of DRAFT status until 2012 at the earliest, and is not expected to be accepted as a formal standard until 2022.

I appreciate that you worship Apple, and/or that you were a Flash hater even before Apple decided that all iDevice users shall not get to use Flash. But not everyone feels as you do. If you enjoy the Internet without Flash, more power to you. But it seems an awful lot of people- even those among the most Apple faithful on this board- would like Apple to give their BUYERS what those BUYERS want, rather than dictate to those BUYERS what those BUYERS should want.

Maybe Apple checked with you first to be sure they were making the right decision here?
 
Read the quote by steve jobs. If you have a problem with the comparison, you should equally have a problem with big brothers comments.
Yes but how is a small laptop better than a big laptop? Because that was the point of the quote.
It does the same things but with less processing power, a smaller screen and less storage, so I don't really see how the Netbook does it better.

That's not to say it DOESN'T do them, but it certainly doesn't do them BETTER.
 
Hopefully this will get more of those sites to offer non-Flash alternative content.
Flash is just a tool for delivering the content that people want to deliver... don't shoot the messenger. If you replace Flash with something else they'll create exactly the same battery draining content. Banners, intros, video, music, games... and the day they start doing that in HTML5 you'll wish it would have stayed in the Flash sandbox.

The internet is moving away from a text medium and becoming more like interactive TV. There's no stopping this, unless you're planning on bombing bandwidth back to the early 1990's.
 
Read the quote by steve jobs. If you have a problem with the comparison, you should equally have a problem with big brothers comments.

The quote was referring to netbooks vs. a laptop or phone. Not netbooks vs. the iPad. The whole point is that the third device shouldn't be a dumbed down laptop, it should be something completely different. I love how iPad haters just pick and choose things that the iPad lacks and take quotes out of context. You don't get it and you never will.

Isn't your laptop just a big netbook?
 
As a Windows-fanboy, you obviously know little about Apple and its relevant markets...so apart from your usual trolling, just tell me one reason why this is "fantasy":

1 - Adobe's value is spare change for Apple;

2 - there is great synergy between Adobe's and Apple's software products, especially considering Apple's great clout on the creative segment, as well as its strategic objective of dominating media content creation and manipulation;

3 - SJ has more than enough reasons to execute a hostile takeover of Adobe, with little to no antitrust concerns.

You forgot to end that with
ADOBE IS DEAD
:rolleyes:
 
As a web developer, I'm on the flip side. I don't waste too much of my time trying to get IE 6 to perfectly integrate with a new design. It's not going to happen. For me, I wish people would get off their @ss' and get the latest browser. And why on Earth would anyone use IE, any version?

You see, actually you wanna quite the same, … the latest browser so they are nice standard compatible.
 
Or you could make a list that pits a cheap netbook against a half-eaten artichoke, which costs less, is more portable, and never runs out of battery.

You can invent a checklist that says anything :) but I’d suggest one that mentions the actual features of the iPad:

* Ease of use

* Multitouch

* Tilt control

* Speed! (Compare app launching with a sluggish netbook.)

* Solid state drive (not a spinning platter)

* Physical volume (super thin)

* Metal and glass, not cheap plastic

* Battery life

* Ambient light sensor

* Keyboard that adapts to different circumstances (like typing accents by holding a key, or the URL keyboard with a .com button, or the Emoji emoticons keyboard, or all the non-English keyboards)

* Built-in app store, music store and book store

* Lack of crashy, battery-sucking Flash :D



So, let me see if I get this....it's a.....uh..... BIG IPOD TOUCH???


No Camera and same crippled functionality as an iphone... GOT IT!!! I understand now. Now I really want one!!! Oh wait... I like videos... I guess I might want to wait until apple pulls it's head out of it's arse so I can watch the 80% that I won't be able to see without flash... SHUCKS....
 
Yeah steve-o should stop playing games and just buy adobe. Then he can make flash open source. Plus apple really needs to show the pro creative crowd that there business is still welcomed.
 
Kudos to Apple for correcting the incorrect advertisement.


The truth is nice isn't it???

Now disable flash in safari and go to the most popular video sites on the web. The blue cubes must be from a very special, magical kingdom. It's almost "too magical" to handle... ohhhh, I just got GOOSEBUMPS!.... (but NO VIDEO).
 
35tkx.jpg


/End thread.

Brilliant. Perfect example of specwise thinking. Here's some marketing 101 for you, a free lesson. People buy benefits, not features. Let me say that again. People buy benefits, not features.

With this in mind, your comparison does NOT invalidate the Jobs quote shown. Let's try to insert some of your comparison points into the Jobs quote and see how they fit:

"The problem is, netbooks aren't better at open platform". HUH?
"The problem is, netbooks aren't better at physical keyboard". HUH?
"The problem is, netbooks aren't better at widescreen". HUH?
"The problem is, netbooks aren't better at removeable battery". HUH?

Your graphic would only be able to disprove Jobs' quote if the above sentences made sense grammatically (note: it doesn't matter if they are true or not, that is what your comparison is supposed to determine).

The fact that they don't make sense shows that you are completely missing the point. To unpack this further, Jobs' quote can be restated:

"The problem is, netbooks aren't better at <benefit>", while the above (driven by your comparisons) are of the form
"The problem is, netbooks aren't better at <feature>"

In order for your comparison to make any sense, you need to start again, this time listing the benefits that each feature provides, if any. Even then, you're not done. You have to prioritise these benefits, and work out which have the most utility, and cost/benefit. Finally, you will have to make a choice which to implement in your product, and how to keep the costs down.

I'm not saying iPad doesn't have issues. I'm saying, lets debate the real issues properly, and stop acting like asses with pathetic name calling and useless comparisons that completely miss the point.
 
AND it still runs like crap on my Mac Pro.

Well duh since when has a MBP been a mobile device or had mobile hardware in it. You MBP is a portable device not a mobile device big difference in size and hardware.

most mobile devices use a arm or mips cpu not a x86 like the MBP does, diffrent architectures meaning a diffrent way they have to be written.

Plus flash content always sucked on Macs.
 
Why would you consider him mentally stronger? Maybe you are so mentally week, that you actually believe what Jobs tells you about Flash and Blu-ray being a "bag of hurt", while his laughs all the way to the bank.

Jobs does not like Flash and Blu-ray because it cut's into his profits. So he belittles it, and ignores it, and and then he is joined by the "mentally weak" army of fanboys who's lives hang on every word he says. Guess what boys, the joke is on you, Jobs is laughing at YOU. Carry on. :D
How do you know he's laughing at us? Are you his personal assistant?
 
Os 4.0

I haven't read all 500 plus comments, but it is apparent to me that Apple wants to keep a certain symmetry between the iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad. Hence we have OS 3.2 for the iPad, not 4.0. The iPad will launch with 3.2, but come June, or thereabouts, a brand new iPhone will be announced and with it OS 4.0. At the same time we will get 4.2 (or whatever) for the iPad. It will have multi-tasking and will allow for a version of Flash to run, if the demand is there. It will all be okay...
 
Well duh since when has a MBP been a mobile device or had mobile hardware in it. You MBP is a portable device not a mobile device big difference in size and hardware.

most mobile devices use a arm or mips cpu not a x86 like the MBP does, diffrent architectures meaning a diffrent way they have to be programmed.



He said Mac Pro. Not Macbook Pro.
 
Yes but how is a small laptop better than a big laptop? Because that was the point of the quote.
It does the same things but with less processing power, a smaller screen and less storage, so I don't really see how the Netbook does it better.

That's not to say it DOESN'T do them, but it certainly doesn't do them BETTER.

Well let's see... Lighter is better. Faster is better. The operating system is better suited for the small form factor. Touch is better than mouse or trackpad. The screen is bigger and better quality. There is an app store to quickly get apps. The iBooks are better than kindle or reading PDFs. The lust goes on. It's not brain surgery. It is pretty much the same scenario as the iPhone. Better is Better. Interface, design and hardware are better. User experience is better. It's pretty easy to get. And in a world where we're putting an LCD tv in every room and we all have cell phones in our pockets, why shouldn't we have more cool Internet devices laying around? It's like people are in denial of the Internet and how it IS such a big part of our life. Netflix, hulu, facebook, Twitter, email, web surfing, maps, photos, music, forums. It's the new telephone and tv of our world. I don't understand why this can't be a complimentary must have device as yet another add on to our web centric world. My god we've got multiple tivos and cable boxes and blue Ray players and hd cable and satellite recievers and 4 cars and 6 phones and a cell phone and towers and laptops and old ones of everything in the closet. Why are we trying to not allow a new category of device? One thr actually suits the needs of the nongeekoids better? This closed Os doesn't need disk doctor. Doesn't need permission repair or defrAgging. It doesn't have corrupted prefs or kernel panics. The iPhone, touch, and pad are the new simpler product. The tv of the Internet world. Simple, efficient, intuitive.
 
Ok.. here come the flames...

First, let me say I have always hated Microsoft and I think bill gates is a liar (or a master exaggerator). I've owned apple products all my life, except for one brief slip where I needed a PC for day trading (no mac software). I had high expectations for the maxipad, given the hype. Then reality slapped me in the face with a big ipod touch.

I was then looking for alternatives and found this video. I don't know if this is real product, or just a dream, but is is close to what I thought the maxipad would be (minus the two screens). It's a potential microsuck product. I'm sorry. No sarcasm. This is something I thought apple would bring us. If you watch the video, you'll see what could have been, instead of the pad.

Perhaps they stole apple's real tablet and associated ideas and files? That would explain a lot, seeing that microsoft has always claimed innovation and lied about it...my opinion (and the fact that apple just released a big ipod touch).

Watch if you dare. And, I really am sorry it has anything to do with ms. Not sure how it's possible... SERIOUSLY. Maybe it can be hackintoshed if it ever sees the light of day... from gizmodo...

500x_courier8.jpg


VIDEO LINK:...http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-first-details-of-microsofts-secret-tablet



... and, the video is in flash...

And a quote from a reviewer of the video:


Come on Apple, bring it on. This is exactly what I've been looking for in a tablet device. Not these rumors of an extra large iPhone or a smaller MacBook. Something truly useful that takes advantage of its form factor, something truly groundbreaking!

I dare say, this could be the Newton finally done right!
 
I am thinking. If by "user" you mean "developer" (someone who uses the tool), then why do you like Safari much better without Flash, yet develop Flash-based media with Articulate. And if clicktoflash is NEVER clicked to play Flash, how do you take a look at your Articulate creations?

Yes, I'm an Articulate developer. And since Articulate is Windows-only, I obviously am not using ClickToFlash (which is an OS X plugin) while I'm doing my Articulate work (which I do on my Mac using Fusion).

In unison, those won't all go into one nice little container, they'll have to be integrated to work together. So even if Articulate and similar would choose to support HTML5 + Javascript + H.264 renders, it would likely be much more complicated for users of those programs to deal with the end result of their work.

And why couldn't they go into one nice little container? Articulate seems to lump Flash, HTML and javascript into one nice little container just fine.

And this wouldn't have to be any more complicated for the end user at all. Good grief, you click the Publish button and Articulate does its thing. Whether via Flash, HTML5 or Web Voodoo, you wouldn't know the difference (nor need to).

Eye of the beholder. Flash plays back Flash-created content fine on Macs. Does it play it as smoothly as it does on Windows? No. But it plays back fine enough that Mac users can get the media experience targeted by the developer.

Sorry, for some of us "good enough" isn't good enough. Why should I have to endure Flash-based mediocrity in my Web experience just because I choose to use a Mac? I'm sick of it. Apparently Apple is sick of it too.

You're fine with them deciding which apps you may use and which you may not? You're fine with them deciding you can use one company's 3G network but not anothers for you? You're fine with them letting one codec work but not another? Etc? Apple is the ultimate control-oriented company. Yet their proprietary stuff is fine, while others is not?

You're fabricating a make-believe argument for me.

And you don't seem to have a problem with the fact that you are effectively shackled to a Flash-based Web (I guess since it's controlled by Adobe and not Apple you're just fine with it, since only Apple is evil?).

Please tell me more about these Apple proprietary Web standards. They use h.264 (not Apple's). They produce one of the most standards-compliant browsers on the planet. They use AAC (not Apple's) for their #1 digital music store (hmm, what does Microsoft use for its Zune tunes?).

HTML5 won't even be out of DRAFT status until 2012 at the earliest, and is not expected to be accepted as a formal standard until 2022.

The W3C is now about as relevant and effective today as the U.N. No one needs W3C approval to use HTML5, and you better believe that it won't be 2022 before HTML5 is the default Web standard.

I appreciate that you worship Apple

Strawman fails.

But not everyone feels as you do. If you enjoy the Internet without Flash, more power to you. But it seems an awful lot of people- even those among the most Apple faithful on this board- would like Apple to give their BUYERS what those BUYERS want, rather than dictate to those BUYERS what those BUYERS should want.

Good. Let the market decide. It's what capitalism is all about.

Maybe Apple checked with you first to be sure they were making the right decision here?

Yes, I have a red telephone in my office that Steve calls. Some days we have lunch. I always order the bacon cheeseburger just to torment him.
 
Well let's see... Lighter is better. Faster is better. The operating system is better suited for the small form factor. Touch is better than mouse or trackpad. The screen is bigger and better quality. There is an app store to quickly get apps. The iBooks are better than kindle or reading PDFs. The lust goes on. It's not brain surgery. It is pretty much the same scenario as the iPhone. Better is Better. Interface, design and hardware are better. User experience is better. It's pretty easy to get. And in a world where we're putting an LCD tv in every room and we all have cell phones in our pockets, why shouldn't we have more cool Internet devices laying around? It's like people are in denial of the Internet and how it IS such a big part of our life. Netflix, hulu, facebook, Twitter, email, web surfing, maps, photos, music, forums. It's the new telephone and tv of our world. I don't understand why this can't be a complimentary must have device as yet another add on to our web centric world. My god we've got multiple tivos and cable boxes and blue Ray players and hd cable and satellite recievers and 4 cars and 6 phones and a cell phone and towers and laptops and old ones of everything in the closet. Why are we trying to not allow a new category of device? One thr actually suits the needs of the nongeekoids better? This closed Os doesn't need disk doctor. Doesn't need permission repair or defrAgging. It doesn't have corrupted prefs or kernel panics. The iPhone, touch, and pad are the new simpler product. The tv of the Internet world. Simple, efficient, intuitive.
You misunderstood me. You are telling my why the iPad is better than a laptop, I was actually asking why would a small laptop (a Netbook) be better than a big laptop :)
 
Read the quote by steve jobs. If you have a problem with the comparison, you should equally have a problem with big brothers comments.

Listen to the entire conversation by Steve leading up to your quote.

Steve said that for a new category of devices to exist between smart phones and laptops, it would have to do certain key tasks better than the two. Those tasks being browsing the internet, email, displaying and sharing photos, enjoying music collection, playing games, and eBooks. He then goes onto say that some think that the answer is a netbook, and then goes on to your quote. He explains though that netbooks are generally slow with cheap displays and clunky software. In effect, the netbook is not a new category of product between smart phones and laptop, but is rather a cheap laptop, which is accurate and proves his position.

Your list is inconsequential because you are comparing a laptop to a new category of product. Since you posted it, let's go ahead and discuss it and see how it relates to Steve's point.

1.) Physical Keyboard
OF course a laptop has one. The iPad is new breed of tablet and no need for physical input. The work done on this device will not warrant it and is silly to include on the list. If you want one, you can attach a bluetooth one or the dock.

2.) Widescreen
Widescreen in a laptop makes sense. In a handheld device, not so much. The iPad would be too damn skinny and wouldn't be optimized for the plethora of other things the device does, all which require screen real estate.

3.) Webcam
I think maybe the angle is an issue. This I will concede because I can see the value in a webcam.

4.) Card Reader
There is an adapter for that

5.) USB, LAN, expansion ports
Again, this isn't supposed to be a laptop. It is supposed to be a standalone device. LAN negates its point, and there is a USB adapter for that when needed.

6.) Removable Battery
10 hours+ of battery life is more than enough for most people.

7.)Flash Support
I won't be baited into a flash/no flash argument here. However, Apple's position is that omitting a proprietary plugin that routinely crashes the browser and hogs resources in OS X makes for a better browsing experience. Before giving me a cute photo with a bunch of blue symbols, check this one out too.

8.) Video Out
This supports Apple composite and component out cables.

9.) Open platform
It is Apple's position that acting as the intermediary allows for a more stable experience for users and a sound distribution method for devs. Looks at income stats for iPhone devs vs. Android or Microsoft.

10.) Multitasking
The final product isn't confirmed, but even if it just as it is on the iPhone, most multitasking isn't needed as background processes. Quick app switching works fine. I will concede the ever popular pandora example, but given that the iPod app will likely still be able to run in the background, who cares?

11.) Storage
Yet again, this is a new type of device, not a laptop. For most people 16GB works fine for the purpose of this device.

12.) Touch screen
This should be expanded to note the amazing multitouch technology that Apple has. This alone is one of the biggest reasons that Jobs claims the iPad works as a new category of device doing things better than a smart phone or a laptop. The way in which users interact with the iPad, i.e. with the internet, email, photos, music, games, ebooks, and any other applications is the point Steve is trying to make.
 
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