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Given that they've removed force touch from every device that supports it, I highly doubt this would ever happen
This is the one place where it makes sense. And there wouldn’t be the discoverability downside that made them remove it from other devices.

In other words, for the touchbar, it would ONLY work if there was pressure. No more “tap” to do anything. (Though maybe a setting allows it).

And you are wrong - force touch still works on the trackpads. So think of this like a trackpad. Press down to click the fake keys.
 
I love Touch Bar and hope it never goes away with that said a lot of the posts I am seeing on here are people saying "Touch Bar is hated by everyone in the universe blah blah blah". Maybe people on Macrumors dislike it however Macrumors doesn't even represent a speck in the amount of Mac users and people really need to stop speaking as if they know what every single Mac user wants.

While you may hate it and while I may love it that does not mean that everyone else equally loves it or hates it it means that is how you are viewing things thru your technology lens. The fact is there are people who both love it and hate it.
 
I love Touch Bar and hope it never goes away with that said a lot of the posts I am seeing on here are people saying "Touch Bar is hated by everyone in the universe blah blah blah". Maybe people on Macrumors dislike it however Macrumors doesn't even represent a speck in the amount of Mac users and people really need to stop speaking as if they know what every single Mac user wants.

While you may hate it and while I may love it that does not mean that everyone else equally loves it or hates it it means that is how you are viewing things thru your technology lens. The fact is there are people who both love it and hate it.

Cool. So make it optional on the bigger MacBook Pro’s, and then everyone can be happy.
 
The touchbar offer more functionality than a normal row of function key.

Apple will expand that functionality beyond the touchbar into the 64 keys which require a certain amount of leeway and key travel in order to make it usable.

The 64 keys have an individual screen that capable of displaying any visual image or animation. Therefore, the keyboard layout will be able to change based on the category of application.
 
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I love Touch Bar and hope it never goes away with that said a lot of the posts I am seeing on here are people saying "Touch Bar is hated by everyone in the universe blah blah blah". Maybe people on Macrumors dislike it however Macrumors doesn't even represent a speck in the amount of Mac users and people really need to stop speaking as if they know what every single Mac user wants.

While you may hate it and while I may love it that does not mean that everyone else equally loves it or hates it it means that is how you are viewing things thru your technology lens. The fact is there are people who both love it and hate it.
lol yeah but if they made it optional I bet a tiny tiny tiny amount of people would pay the extra $300.
 
Now, for the rest of your list. People complaining about app store are two subsets, those who genuinely want alternative software loading methods, and by now they must be on android,
Nope. You're just assuming. I can find many instances of people today complaining about a single app store but still have iPhones.

You're accusing me of oversimplifying when you literally did just that? Weird.

and by now they must be on android, and epic and spotify ceos. Oh, and also Mark Zuckerberg. They have a clear interest on that side. So I wouldn’t qualify this one as customer complaining en masse.

By your logic, epic, FB, and spotify would drop support of the platform since Apple is ignoring them. They haven't for the most part.

and apple will keep selling lots and lots of phones in spite of that.

This literally proves my point. People vote with their dollars. Apple listens to sales first, then checks complaints. If they're selling plenty then it's obvious their design team is right and the customers are wrong.

“an ipad is all you’ll ever need, you’re stuck in the past”.

Again you're over simplifying. Even Steve said Macs will still be around forever because they'll be like trucks and Tim has always said they weren't giving up on the Mac.

Then the situation was so bad that even Cook had to send an internal memo to reassure apple’s workers that the mac was a very important part of the company and it will get attention once again.

Don't know what memo you're talking about, but it sounds like it just appeared Apple wasn't focused on the Mac when really they were redesigning Mac Pro, creating iMac Pro, redesigning MacBook Pros, and laying the groundwork for ARM all of which took several years of development.

Speaking of the mac, you possibly remember the amount of criticism the trashcan mac pro received. In a never before seen movement, apple publicly acknowledged they were wrong.

They only admitted they were wrong about the thermal design. Apple was betting multi-gpu was going to be the way to go, but instead, the industry went towards single, larger GPU setups.

The complaints were more focused on the lack of upgradability, not thermal issues. Again, you're oversimplifying.

Lack of support for external drives on the ipad. After valid complaints they finally introduced it.

You're assuming they wouldn't have introduced external drives had they switched to USB-c which I don't think is the case.

And last but not least, the not enough bashed butterfly keyboard. A design so atrocious that even using it in the vacuum wouldn’t guarantee it wouldn’t break, and so cleverly designed that a broken key would mean changing half the computer. After four years of stubbornly refusing to address the problem, apple had to reverse course.

They listened to the sales which were in decline from 2018-2019. Like I said, check sales first, then look at the complaints.


So, is apple right disregarding every customer complaint?

Where did I say every? Again, you're oversimplifying.

I would categorize the touchbar as the headphone jack and usbc. It doesn’t make better the product,

Again, subjective.

but it won’t harm the sales, so I guess we’re stuck with it at least until a major redesign.

Again, proving my point.
 
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From normal viewing angles, the current touch bar really looks dim... if at least they made it so it's optimized for the angle where you'd normally see it from....

There's so much to be improved here. Haptic feedback, customization, the option of it just displaying the F keys or the dock or some widgets or the menu bar.

EDIT: Oh wow, better touch tool seems to do all that. Nice!
Yeah. I also think it looks blurry and out of focus from the normal 45 degree viewing angle. Overall, it looks cheap, and isn't really much use. I am trying, but overall, it doesn't seem to help me do anything any faster.
 
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lol yeah but if they made it optional I bet a tiny tiny tiny amount of people would pay the extra $300.
I doubt no touchbar would make a price difference. The MacBook Pro would still be the same price as it is now.

Margins matter as they should. You will never see a new MacBook Pro released by Apple for 999.00 never.
 
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Set up a business and disregard customers complains. Let us know how it went.

When you have tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of users you listen to the majority, not to an entitled vocal minority that immaturely speaks in absolutes and likes to pretend that everyone/the majority thinks like them to feel validated, it’s an easy choice.
 
If the Touch Bar is so great, why is it not on every Mac? As it is only on one machine, it isn’t used in the volumes needed for it to get the attention from developers to make it useful for more than for a niche of users, although I’m not sure if there is a real use for the Touch Bar that is greater than the price increase for it’s inclusion, and the lost utility of the missing function keys.
Seriously though. If they got rid of 3D Touch and Force Touch so quickly, they really need to either get rid of the Touch Bar or fully commit.
 
That’s simplifying the question. Apple is frequently making radical changes, so certainly there will be very loud critiques every time. But there’s a difference between noise at introduction time and complains that are sustained in time.

Let’s take a look at the examples you cited. I agree apple was right on the first two examples. I’ll add to that list removing the floppy drive, then removing the dvd drive. There was also a lot of fuss about Jobs refusing to support blu ray. Macs weren’t better products for that, but in time it stopped being relevant.

Now, for the rest of your list. People complaining about app store are two subsets, those who genuinely want alternative software loading methods, and by now they must be on android, and epic and spotify ceos. Oh, and also Mark Zuckerberg. They have a clear interest on that side. So I wouldn’t qualify this one as customer complaining en masse.

Now, on the jack and usb-c, apple is doing a worse product. Everyone qould be better if we had the same charging standard, and we are getting nothing in return by being forced to use lightning. Those are not fatal flaws, and apple will keep selling lots and lots of phones in spite of that.

Now let’s go through some examples of complains and apple backtracking because customers were right.

The mac being neglected. At first, people who would defend apple no matter what refused to acknowledge said neglecting, often stating that what apple was selling was more than enough for anyone (some models unchanged in specs and pricing for years). Then the argument changed to “an ipad is all you’ll ever need, you’re stuck in the past”. Then the situation was so bad that even Cook had to send an internal memo to reassure apple’s workers that the mac was a very important part of the company and it will get attention once again.

Speaking of the mac, you possibly remember the amount of criticism the trashcan mac pro received. In a never before seen movement, apple publicly acknowledged they were wrong.

Lack of support for external drives on the ipad. After valid complaints they finally introduced it.

And last but not least, the not enough bashed butterfly keyboard. A design so atrocious that even using it in the vacuum wouldn’t guarantee it wouldn’t break, and so cleverly designed that a broken key would mean changing half the computer. After four years of stubbornly refusing to address the problem, apple had to reverse course.

So, is apple right disregarding every customer complaint? No, because they don’t. Apple is a company that is led by very smart people, who know that taking risks has some inherent criticism associated, but that also know how to listen to their customers.

I would categorize the touchbar as the headphone jack and usbc. It doesn’t make better the product, but it won’t harm the sales, so I guess we’re stuck with it at least until a major redesign.

USB/Lighting:
Lightning has a massive ecosystem of accessories so changing it wouldn't be painful for many the customers while moving to USB would add very little benefits compared to the loss. Not everyone has your same needs.

MAC neglecting:
It turned out they were actually working on a lot of macs. If today society wasn't so similar in behavior to a self-entitled and spoiled crybaby you wouldn't have seen all that noise. Cook had to send the memo because of the noise from the outside, only selected people that work on them knows about new machines or new designs at Apple.

Previous than current Mac Pro:
When you try new products you don't always get them right, nobody is perfect. The fact that it took them some years to change it doesn't necessarily mean they were stubborn, perhaps they were redesigning it? Also, I don't think you know how thing works in very large company (very very differently than in large companies, that in turn are very very different from how they work on medium sized companies, and so on and so on), expecting them to react to feedback and create a new product in a matter of a year or two it's just ridiculous.

Hard drive support:
Products evolve in time. That for a year or two some people asked for external hard drive and got them a year later than they wanted, it doesn't mean Apple execs didn't want external drive support or weren't working on it; thinking otherwise clearly shows bias, you are trying to determine the cause (you want it to be) from the outcome.

Butterfly keyboard:
They tried a new design, they tried to fix it, they weren't able to, they changed it. Again, your expectations are not realistic if you think they were being stubborn because it tooks more than you liked, given massive companies timings, dynamics and all.

Don't you see that your thesis are only based on the fact that you didn't get what you wanted IMMEDIATELY, an ignorance of how the industry, large organizations and the craft actually work and totally unrealistic expectations about time to market of this kind of product?

I will leave you with an example:
Year 1: Mac Pro launch betting on dual video cards setup that at the moment looks like the future.
Year 2: The industry eventually starts to go on a different direction with single more powerful cards
Year 3: It's clear that the design bet didn't work, they revaluate, research and start conceiving a different design (digression: do you really think that after investing tens or hundred of millions in designing, building, marketing, distribution on a product you just drop it after 12 months?).
Year: 4 They keep designing and testing the new product (again: do you really think that designing a computer system it's easy? That you don't make any mistake, you never have to drop part of you plans, get back to the drawing board and son?) and they release the new Mac Pro.

Curious: how would you have done it faster than this?
 
So you’re still on iOS12 I take it. The stealth castration and death of 3D Touch in iOS13 in phones where the hardware was promoted as a feature, like the X, was a absolute disgrace. Nothing to do with “discoverability”, just penny pinching in new phones and wanting the lowest common denominator across the range.

Hearing about Force Touch possibly being reintroduced in other Apple products just rubs salt in that festering wound.
I’m on iOS 14 actually, but 3D Touch still works for me. I’ve been slightly puzzled as I’ve read from time to time that one of the earlier iOS versions killed off the 3D Touch functionality (like watchOS 7 did for Apple Watch), but it still works for me
 
If the Touch Bar is so great, why is it not on every Mac?

Because at the moment it's not feasible to add them to wireless keyboard without having a big impact on battery life and increase its price too much?

It's how technology works, you don't see a new technology (any of them: LED, Retina Display, OLED, 5G, Pro Motion, whatever) just being adopted EVERYWHERE AT ONCE. There are cost issues, technical issues when moving to a different device (some devices use a battery, other are plugged, massive difference, some have a lot of thermal headroom some are very constrained, massive difference, some sells in volumes that make the technology sensible for the product other sells at lover volume and you don't get the same benefit from scale and so on and so on) mass–production issues etc.
 
The dollars per value are the lowest in the industry. lol margins
That's fine. You will never see a MacBook Pro released without a Touch Bar again and this makes me happy. You can dislike my posts all you want I really don't care as that is some passive aggressiveness because you can't stand people who like things other than you do. Happy Holidays and Happy Touch Bar days 😎
 
Nope. You're just assuming. I can find many instances of people today complaining about a single app store but still have iPhones.

You're accusing me of oversimplifying when you literally did just that? Weird.



By your logic, epic, FB, and spotify would drop support of the platform since Apple is ignoring them. They haven't for the most part.



This literally proves my point. People vote with their dollars. Apple listens to sales first, then checks complaints. If they're selling plenty then it's obvious their design team is right and the customers are wrong.



Again you're over simplifying. Even Steve said Macs will still be around forever because they'll be like trucks and Tim has always said they weren't giving up on the Mac.



Don't know what memo you're talking about, but it sounds like it just appeared Apple wasn't focused on the Mac when really they were redesigning Mac Pro, creating iMac Pro, redesigning MacBook Pros, and laying the groundwork for ARM all of which took several years of development.



They only admitted they were wrong about the thermal design. Apple was betting multi-gpu was going to be the way to go, but instead, the industry went towards single, larger GPU setups.

The complaints were more focused on the lack of upgradability, not thermal issues. Again, you're oversimplifying.



You're assuming they wouldn't have introduced external drives had they switched to USB-c which I don't think is the case.



They listened to the sales which were in decline from 2018-2019. Like I said, check sales first, then look at the complaints.




Where did I say every? Again, you're oversimplifying.



Again, subjective.



Again, proving my point.
Agree in almost everything, though if they listen, I’m curious to see the user upgrade options in future ARM Mac Pro (allready lost hope for MBP and iMac)
Also I know I’m alone on this but really liked the trashcan concept (design wise, except for the plastic shell which felt “cheap”-aluminum would be stunning)-it looked like anything else and not just a fancy enhanced PC, very nostalgic of the Original and the G’s like today. I understand tech was more important specially in that product line, but still...The 3D metal pattern of the current Mac Pro and Display, though it seems very creative and effective for heat dissipation, looks very troublesome for dust accumulation.
 
Agree in almost everything, though if they listen, I’m curious to see the user upgrade options in future ARM Mac Pro (allready lost hope for MBP and iMac)
Also I know I’m alone on this but really liked the trashcan concept (design wise, except for the plastic shell which felt “cheap”-aluminum would be stunning)-it looked like anything else and not just a fancy enhanced PC, very nostalgic of the Original and the G’s like today. I understand tech was more important specially in that product line, but still...The 3D metal pattern of the current Mac Pro and Display, though it seems very creative and effective for heat dissipation, looks very troublesome for dust accumulation.

I enjoyed the trash can design too.
 
I’m on iOS 14 actually, but 3D Touch still works for me. I’ve been slightly puzzled as I’ve read from time to time that one of the earlier iOS versions killed off the 3D Touch functionality (like watchOS 7 did for Apple Watch), but it still works for me
You’re not using 3D Touch (killed in iOS13 as I mentioned) but it’s inferior replacement Haptic Touch.

Difference?

Whereas 3D Touch is pressure-based, Haptic Touch is just a long press with a vibration. You don't need to press harder to activate Haptic Touch. ... Some ways 3D Touch is better: the vibrational feedback is stronger and more satisfying to the press, and 3D Touch is also noticeably faster than Haptic Touch.”
 
You’re not using 3D Touch (killed in iOS13 as I mentioned) but it’s inferior replacement Haptic Touch.

Difference?

Whereas 3D Touch is pressure-based, Haptic Touch is just a long press with a vibration. You don't need to press harder to activate Haptic Touch. ... Some ways 3D Touch is better: the vibrational feedback is stronger and more satisfying to the press, and 3D Touch is also noticeably faster than Haptic Touch.”
That’s what my brother thought when I told him but this isn’t the case. I can test it now just writing this post. If I used Haptic Touch, I’d have to long press the space bar to go into the cursor mode. Instead, I delightfully am able to hard press anywhere on the keyboard (I often hit around the g or the h button) and I enter cursor mode. From here, while still holding down my finger, I can apply pressure once to highlight a single word, and if I apply pressure again, I’ll highlight the entire sentence. Applying pressure again and I’ll unselect everything.

So 3D Touch still works on iOS14
 
That's fine. You will never see a MacBook Pro released without a Touch Bar again and this makes me happy. You can dislike my posts all you want I really don't care as that is some passive aggressiveness because you can't stand people who like things other than you do. Happy Holidays and Happy Touch Bar days 😎
That's pretty ridiculous since you were the one disliking posts on the previous pages.
 
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USB/Lighting:
Lightning has a massive ecosystem of accessories so changing it wouldn't be painful for many the customers while moving to USB would add very little benefits compared to the loss. Not everyone has your same needs.

MAC neglecting:
It turned out they were actually working on a lot of macs. If today society wasn't so similar in behavior to a self-entitled and spoiled crybaby you wouldn't have seen all that noise. Cook had to send the memo because of the noise from the outside, only selected people that work on them knows about new machines or new designs at Apple.

Previous than current Mac Pro:
When you try new products you don't always get them right, nobody is perfect. The fact that it took them some years to change it doesn't necessarily mean they were stubborn, perhaps they were redesigning it? Also, I don't think you know how thing works in very large company (very very differently than in large companies, that in turn are very very different from how they work on medium sized companies, and so on and so on), expecting them to react to feedback and create a new product in a matter of a year or two it's just ridiculous.

Hard drive support:
Products evolve in time. That for a year or two some people asked for external hard drive and got them a year later than they wanted, it doesn't mean Apple execs didn't want external drive support or weren't working on it; thinking otherwise clearly shows bias, you are trying to determine the cause (you want it to be) from the outcome.

Butterfly keyboard:
They tried a new design, they tried to fix it, they weren't able to, they changed it. Again, your expectations are not realistic if you think they were being stubborn because it tooks more than you liked, given massive companies timings, dynamics and all.

Don't you see that your thesis are only based on the fact that you didn't get what you wanted IMMEDIATELY, an ignorance of how the industry, large organizations and the craft actually work and totally unrealistic expectations about time to market of this kind of product?

I will leave you with an example:
Year 1: Mac Pro launch betting on dual video cards setup that at the moment looks like the future.
Year 2: The industry eventually starts to go on a different direction with single more powerful cards
Year 3: It's clear that the design bet didn't work, they revaluate, research and start conceiving a different design (digression: do you really think that after investing tens or hundred of millions in designing, building, marketing, distribution on a product you just drop it after 12 months?).
Year: 4 They keep designing and testing the new product (again: do you really think that designing a computer system it's easy? That you don't make any mistake, you never have to drop part of you plans, get back to the drawing board and son?) and they release the new Mac Pro.

Curious: how would you have done it faster than this?
USB/Lightning. Apple is always “out with the old, in with the new”. I don’t need usbc, by the way, I only have one device using such port. Why do you assume it would suit my needs. I only think it’s better to switch to an industry standard.

Mac neglecting: If apple was a little more reliable and less opaque with their pipeline, Cook wouldn’t have needed to say a word. By the way, that wasn’t in the middle of an architecture shift like the one their going through. On that aspect, apple has changed for the better, imho.

tcMP: It didn’t take them one year. Or two. Or three. It took them six friggin years. For the wealthiest company in the world, it’s quite a feat.

Butterfly keyboard, I think it was a mistake not switching back earlier, no matter how you rationalize it. You may think apple was right trying for four years to salvage the thing, that’s fine, we can agree to disagree on that one.

Anyway, my point was, and I stand behind it, that sometimes people complain for good reasons about changes apple introduces, and apple sometimes listens to them. With that list I was trying to provide examples of ocassions when apple was critiziced and subsequently changed course.
 
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