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macrumors 68040
Mar 28, 2010
3,621
12,434
There is an irony with FineWoven; that although it is partly made from recycled materials, its lifespan is shorter than the leather version and thus the Co2 emissions from the product’s journey increases environmental damage - before it has reached landfill.

In short, it’s a pathetic PR stunt. Animals are slaughtered regardless of how morally correct it is to create leather.
 

Nautilus007

macrumors 68030
Jul 13, 2007
2,659
1,373
U.S
There is an irony with FineWoven; that although it is partly made from recycled materials, its lifespan is shorter than the leather version and thus the Co2 emissions from the product’s journey increases environmental damage - before it has reached landfill.
In short, it’s a pathetic PR stunt. Animals are slaughtered regardless of how morally correct it is to create leather.
Agreed.

Killing the leather products was a horrible idea.
I can't imagine they will ever backtrack on this initiative - at least not while Tim Cook is leading Apple.
 

Radin.Y

macrumors regular
Oct 12, 2011
128
324
Michigan
Can someone explain to me why leather is not eco-friendly? I consider myself a very cautious person when it comes to these topics. So I genuinely wonder. A large number of animals are slaughtered for meat every day. Using the skin from those animals should be considered an eco-friendly option instead of using plastic accessories. We'd be using a byproduct of the meat industry that otherwise, I assume, would go to waste. (I know silicone is not plastic, but I am asking in a more general sense)
 

gatorvet96

macrumors 6502
Apr 21, 2016
272
755
Vegan leather is a feel-good travesty. I much prefer full grain leather to some 100% man-made concoction straight out of the IG Farben recipe book. It would have to be proper leather, though, not this paper-thin leather veneer over a plastic shell that Apple used to sell as "leather".

And no, not a single cow has ever died for its skin. I eat beef, and I'm all for nose to tail utilisation of the animal.
The environmental issues are actually from the tanning process.
 

bradman83

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2020
1,244
3,125
Buffalo, NY
I'm still wondering, wouldn't it be eco-friendly if cases could be reused between multiple generations of the same device?
That sadly runs up against the prevailing mood in these forums of wanting substantial chassis redesigns every 1-2 generations or else it's "Apple can't innovate anymore!"

At least the iPad Pros retained a largely similar form factor from 2018-2022 so some of the cases could potentially be reused (I use the same regular case and Magic Keyboard from my 2018 iPP with my 2022 iPP).
 
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Radin.Y

macrumors regular
Oct 12, 2011
128
324
Michigan
... It certainly wouldn't be necessary to resize the camera bump every year. I mean, it's actually best not to buy a new phone every year because each successive generation adds less and less value.

All this eco-marketing pisses me off. Very hypocritical...
I wholeheartedly agree. They keep changing the damn thing so you can't ever resume a case. At least with watches they have graced us with some sensible reusable design. (watch it get jinxed and they kill the backward compatibility)

But if they keep the design the same, they won't be able to charge you 50 dollars for a piece of rubber. Just greenwashing 🤦‍♂️
 
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bradman83

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2020
1,244
3,125
Buffalo, NY
Can someone explain to me why leather is not eco-friendly? I consider myself a very cautious person when it comes to these topics. So I genuinely wonder. A large number of animals are slaughtered for meat every day. Using the skin from those animals should be considered an eco-friendly option instead of using plastic accessories. We'd be using a byproduct of the meat industry that otherwise, I assume, would go to waste. (I know silicone is not plastic, but I am asking in a more general sense)
I think the idea is to reduce the demand for products made from cattle in general - meat, dairy, and leather. Cows produce a tremendous amount of methane just from eating and methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. More demand means more cows are raised which means more cow flatulence spewing methane into the atmosphere. Additionally, high global demand for cattle products has led some countries like Brazil to clear vast swaths of rainforest and other woodland for additional grazing land.
 

Canubis

macrumors 6502
Oct 22, 2008
438
556
Vienna, Austria
Just got myself another fine woven watchband in rainforest color (apparently one of the last, stock seems low/partially sold out likely due to the upcoming event).

Really like its texture and feel despite all the negativity on forums around it. Hope Apple will continue to make them, I am up to buy a 2-3 more if new colors will be nice.
 

StuBeck

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2008
896
1,461
Can someone explain to me why leather is not eco-friendly? I consider myself a very cautious person when it comes to these topics. So I genuinely wonder. A large number of animals are slaughtered for meat every day. Using the skin from those animals should be considered an eco-friendly option instead of using plastic accessories. We'd be using a byproduct of the meat industry that otherwise, I assume, would go to waste. (I know silicone is not plastic, but I am asking in a more general sense)
The core idea is that leather comes from cows, and cows are bad for the environment. If they reduce the use of leather (and other use of cows is reduced) then the environment will be better. There are also harsh chemicals used to produce leather, but I'm not sure how much that affects things.

This isn't a simple equation because leather is not the primary reason for cows to be raised, their meat is still the primary reason. So simply saying "we're not using leather anymore" doesn't really equate to less cows being raised, and thus doesn't help the environment.

The problem many have is that using leather in this case isn't the real problem for the environment. Getting a new phone every year or two is going to be much worse for the environment, and there isn't a clear indication of what happens to your phone once its recycled by Apple either. The hope would be that it would be refurbished either for parts or for resale as a whole product, but there isn't a clear way for consumers to know exactly what happens to their old product.

Apple went on a big environmental push with these products, which many saw as a way to sell more products...which is always going to be way worse than simply reusing the one you already have. I would hope that they continue to work on and improve battery replacement for their products as that seems to be the core reason people upgrade these days.
 

John_Blackthorne

macrumors regular
May 4, 2024
135
146
Chiraq
And my beautiful leather case on my iPhone SE still looks great after 4 years. Just a little bit of patina. So who's more eco-friendly?

I'm still wondering, wouldn't it be eco-friendly if cases could be reused between multiple generations of the same device? It certainly wouldn't be necessary to resize the camera bump every year. I mean, it's actually best not to buy a new phone every year because each successive generation adds less and less value.

All this eco-marketing pisses me off. Very hypocritical...
One can only hope Apple receives the message we are all giving it.
 

aDRock1154

macrumors 65816
Nov 15, 2011
1,399
9
Ohio
My wife has one of these cases and it looks terrible after only a few months, with light usage. The silicone cases are garbage, as well. I'm on my second silicone case for my 14 Pro & won't be purchasing another.
 

John_Blackthorne

macrumors regular
May 4, 2024
135
146
Chiraq
Finewoven is plastic. 'Vegan leather' is plastic. There is no improvement going from one to another. Plastic degrades, and is just as disposable and non-recyclable when glued to other plastics, regardless of how 'vegan' it is. Calling plastic 'vegan leather' is the attempt to re-brand disposable, non-recyclable, degradable plastic I've encountered.

Just use leather. The animals are getting killed for their meat anyway, might as use all of their parts. It's much more environmentally friendly. Apple absolutely has the resources to dictate what tanning chemicals and procedures occur, and how any potential waste is managed.
It's not about the environment and "eco-friendly." It's a virtue signal, nothing more.
 

John_Blackthorne

macrumors regular
May 4, 2024
135
146
Chiraq
The core idea is that leather comes from cows, and cows are bad for the environment. If they reduce the use of leather (and other use of cows is reduced) then the environment will be better. There are also harsh chemicals used to produce leather, but I'm not sure how much that affects things.

This isn't a simple equation because leather is not the primary reason for cows to be raised, their meat is still the primary reason. So simply saying "we're not using leather anymore" doesn't really equate to less cows being raised, and thus doesn't help the environment.

The problem many have is that using leather in this case isn't the real problem for the environment. Getting a new phone every year or two is going to be much worse for the environment, and there isn't a clear indication of what happens to your phone once its recycled by Apple either. The hope would be that it would be refurbished either for parts or for resale as a whole product, but there isn't a clear way for consumers to know exactly what happens to their old product.

Apple went on a big environmental push with these products, which many saw as a way to sell more products...which is always going to be way worse than simply reusing the one you already have. I would hope that they continue to work on and improve battery replacement for their products as that seems to be the core reason people upgrade these days.
It's marketing. Nothing more.
 
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tenthousandthings

Contributor
May 14, 2012
217
262
New Haven, CT
I think the idea is to reduce the demand for products made from cattle in general - meat, dairy, and leather. Cows produce a tremendous amount of methane just from eating and methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. More demand means more cows are raised which means more cow flatulence spewing methane into the atmosphere. Additionally, high global demand for cattle products has led some countries like Brazil to clear vast swaths of rainforest and other woodland for additional grazing land.
This, plus FineWoven is not plastic or silicone. That’s the heart of Apple’s case for it. From my point of view, in terms of ecology, plastic is the #1 enemy, so alternatives for it are very welcome. I despise plastic and I would eliminate it from my life if I could.

My iPhone 11 Pro will be replaced by an iPhone 16 Pro, soon. My 11 has a leather case that has stood up well over time. I refuse to replace it with plastic/silicone. I will use leather (I’m sitting here wearing leather shoes), but an alternative to all of the above is welcome. So I will give FineWoven a shot. If it sucks I’ll move on.
 

mikedis

macrumors 603
Dec 30, 2019
5,942
12,624
Oklahoma
FineWoven has reentered production and will be released in new fall seasonal colors. The colors they've tested (not exactly sure which ones will be released) are almost the same as last time. We'll have a purple, a green, a blue, a brown, and a yellow. It's most likely the purple and yellow did not make it to final production, but we'll see for sure soon.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,062
25,117
Gotta be in it to win it
There is an irony with FineWoven; that although it is partly made from recycled materials, its lifespan is shorter than the leather version and thus the Co2 emissions from the product’s journey increases environmental damage - before it has reached landfill.

In short, it’s a pathetic PR stunt. Animals are slaughtered regardless of how morally correct it is to create leather.
I like my fine woven case and feel good no animals were harmed in the making. Don’t give a hoot about the c02.
 

klky

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2015
470
853
I feel Apple is too arrogant and prideful to just drop FineWoven. I hope I'm wrong. Either way, now that I've discovered Bullstrap, they're getting all my case accessory money.
 
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ricketysquire

macrumors regular
Oct 24, 2020
176
734
Like if they want to truly be green, why don't they make a case that will survive the 7+ year expected life of a new iPhone model? It's better to continue to use something rather than create something new.
 
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nikaru

macrumors 65816
Apr 23, 2009
1,154
1,467
Not using a genuine leather which is a waste product from the meat industry in favor of completely artificial and synthetic product is DUMB idea from environmental standpoint. Nobody sacrifices a cow for its skin alone.

I have even a better idea. Build the iPhone with durable polycarbonate enclosure which can easily changed and we won't need cases at all.
 
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