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Do they need a new marketing perspective, because they need new ways to sell computers not updated since 2012 and the same iPad, over and over...? Did they not already successfully re-market the iPad, gave it a bigger screen (and then a smaller screen) and called it Pro...?

I can see the fruits of this venture now, in Tim Cooks Keynote:

"As all our iPad's are now essentially 'Pro' specification, we have decided to call the entire range.....[dramatic pause].....iPad.

Genius... Now give me my bag of peanuts!
 
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The very best marketing Apple can get - and has EVER had - was word of mouth from satisfied customers.

This. They don't have as good word of mouth anymore because nothing Apple does is "simple" anymore. They are not solving real peoples' problems.

Both OSes are filled with features and more complexity than should be. I look at their features and ask myself, "How does this reduce the number of things my Mom is going to need help with?" If it doesn't help, then it's more complexity and crap to manage.

Take the new tentpole "Store in iCloud" and "Optimize Storage" features in macOS Sierra. Who was asking for this? Most people live with pretty crappy "broadband" speeds so now fast access to files turns into slow access just to save some space. But they'd have space if Apple didn't ship small storage options and then fill their OSes with crap! But wait, they only have 5 GB of free iCloud storage, so it looks like people don't have space! Then you have privacy concerns - I advise people keeping personal files out of "the cloud", as most people just use their Desktop as a dumping ground for all sorts of personal things. Then you have implementation details, how people with multiple Macs who use this feature suddenly "lose" their desktop files on one Mac when they get put in some other folder without warning. On top of all of that, both of these things are off by default, so all of this development effort was expended for something that maybe only 10% of people will bother to figure out and turn on. Again, who was asking for this? How does this reduce the number of technical conversations I need to have with Mom?

Meanwhile, I have an Airdrop that's still flaky, new bugs to deal with, and other longstanding issues that will probably never be fixed.

Apple has become the new Microsoft. It was not only about Steve putting his foot down and saying "NO" – this company is very lacking in direction. I don't get the sense of an overarching product roadmap or any particular strategy. There's no "on the internet in 15 minutes" or "digital hub" strategy. There are lacking in vision.
 
This. They don't have as good word of mouth anymore because nothing Apple does is "simple" anymore. They are not solving real peoples' problems.

Both OSes are filled with features and more complexity than should be. I look at their features and ask myself, "How does this reduce the number of things my Mom is going to need help with?" If it doesn't help, then it's more complexity and crap to manage.

Take the new tentpole "Store in iCloud" and "Optimize Storage" features in macOS Sierra. Who was asking for this? Most people live with pretty crappy "broadband" speeds so now fast access to files turns into slow access just to save some space. But they'd have space if Apple didn't ship small storage options and then fill their OSes with crap! But wait, they only have 5 GB of free iCloud storage, so it looks like people don't have space! Then you have privacy concerns - I advise people keeping personal files out of "the cloud", as most people just use their Desktop as a dumping ground for all sorts of personal things. Then you have implementation details, how people with multiple Macs who use this feature suddenly "lose" their desktop files on one Mac when they get put in some other folder without warning. On top of all of that, both of these things are off by default, so all of this development effort was expended for something that maybe only 10% of people will bother to figure out and turn on. Again, who was asking for this? How does this reduce the number of technical conversations I need to have with Mom?

Meanwhile, I have an Airdrop that's still flaky, new bugs to deal with, and other longstanding issues that will probably never be fixed.

Apple has become the new Microsoft. It was not only about Steve putting his foot down and saying "NO" – this company is very lacking in direction. I don't get the sense of an overarching product roadmap or any particular strategy. There's no "on the internet in 15 minutes" or "digital hub" strategy. There are lacking in vision.
And with greater complexity comes reduced stability, which I've been having more and more issues with over time.
 
Sounds like for you innovation is more about form. Rather than the underlying hardware and software tech under the hood.

No. It's about both. Apple used to get that, thanks to Jobs. Their priority to unapologetic detail, ahead of quantity and record profits, earned them their status and reputation. What parallel universe have I awoken in, where Apple doesn't care about aesthetics but focuses on specs?

Software is key, yes. The ecosystem too. So explain to me why iOS 10 was beaten with an ugly stick and Mac OS's only innovation was adding an "intelligent" assistant nobody asked for.

I'm much more interested in the tech below the surface.

Like the 4-year old tech in Macs? It's very interesting indeed.

Also seems you put a lot of weight on tech press "journalists" whose real goal is to generate controversy and clicks. That's OK too. Consumer vision? What do you recommend? Be specific. And what should the end result be, an additional 55million phones sold per quarter?

You're assuming things. I'm not informing my opinion based on disgruntled Forbes or IBT journos. I've been following Apple since Jobs' return. You're obsessed with a number, 55mil. Snap out of it. This isn’t 2012. The entire Mac line is dying on the vine. iPad sales have been in steady decline. The iPhone isn’t exactly setting the world on fire (pun) either. May I remind you that Steve Ballmer also had record setting profits for years before his pisspoor decisions caught up and ****ed over Microsoft.

But if you insist on tech journos, read around. It's not just a disgruntled few that carp about the iPhone's sameness. It's all of them. That's telling.

And then having to suffer through a six year drought of "no innovation" before the next big thing, with Apple apparently not doing anything in the background.

Well it does seem that since 2013 all of Apple's designers have been on a sabbatical. Also, the context (competition, knowhow and expectations) has changed. Can't compare the tech scene of the early noughts with now.

OTOH, for 2016 55million people will open their wallet every quarter and buy an iPhone. Many here who are angry with Apple will dismiss them as sheep, uninformed, or ignorant, but that really says a lot more about those holding others in judgment.

You noticed sales across the whole product range are on a quarter-by-quarter decline, yes? Looks like you're responding to a different commenter here. My beef is with Apple's design and refresh stagnation, not judging people.
 
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The sarcasm within certain comments needs addressing. Apple products are mostly of a quality second-to-none, and a cut above the competition. Function is really all that matters, and any computer may do, but Apple products are, most times, the standard others copy from and attempt to perfect.

I pushed and keep adding any of my chips on my own ideas, and keep out of the stock market. There's no way small fries influence the big boys and girls at board meetings, so cross yer fingers is all. I hope my strategy pays off big time, … someday.

Like any large group, Apple has its flaws. Now where to go? except FORWARD.
 
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So what I am seeing here is that the millennial college educations are so bad, Apple has to breed/educate its own people. Not surprising with the current educational standards. Now that college attendance is up, the quality of graduates goes down. Mix that with the "everyone is a winner" mentality and we are left with a bunch of marketing majors that did well at trying and not succeeding. We now have crap marketing people....but no feelings were hurt. So yay!
 
The goal of the program, according to Apple, is for the "mutual learning and growth of the next generation of Apple thinkers and creators."

Ummm. No. What this really is, is a marketing stunt about marketing stunts. Its as Kardashian a moment as Apple has ever had.
 
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they like crazy? why dont they just open a program called 'The Customers' they've driven a fair chunk of us crazy over the past few years..
 
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No. It's about both. Apple used to get that, thanks to Jobs. Their priority to unapologetic detail, ahead of quantity and record profits, earned them their status and reputation. What parallel universe have I awoken in, where Apple doesn't care about aesthetics but focuses on specs?
...
You did notice sales across the whole product range are on a quarter-by-quarter decline, no? Looks like you're responding to a different commenter here. My beef is with Apple's design and refresh stagnation, not judging people.


Record profits are due to people demanding Apple products and opening their wallets to purchase them. Are you in the camp that thinks all of those people are simply stupid unintelligent sheep with an unrefined sense of design and detail? And perhaps believe you are one of the few that know better, with your better assessment of what excellent design is really about?
...

Yes. And are you familiar with the concept of market saturation, particularly with respect to phones, and what that results in? In spite of that, Apple is currently manufacturing 800K+ iPhone 7 units every day, and selling every one, in order to meet initial demand. To put that in perspective, before the recall Samsung manufactured 2.5million Note 7 phones, over a two week period.
 
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Record profits are due to people demanding Apple products and opening their wallets to purchase them. Are you in the camp that thinks all of those people are simply stupid unintelligent sheep with an unrefined sense of design and detail? And perhaps believe you are one of the few that know better, with your better assessment of what excellent design is really about?
...

Yes. And are you familiar with the concept of market saturation, particularly with respect to phones, and what that results in? In spite of that, Apple is currently manufacturing 800K+ iPhone 7 units every day, and selling every one, in order to meet initial demand. To put that in perspective, before the recall Samsung manufactured 2.5million Note 7 phones, over a two week period.

Lol I didn't say any of that, you did. Back off with forcing assertions and answering your own questions. My argument is consistent and clear: Apple is dropping the ball in terms of product design and innovation (most notably the Mac). If you have a chip on your shoulder the size of the infinite loop about offending people, that says more about you than me.
 
Traditional marketing tactics are changing to appeal to millennials. If you look at some of the major ad agencies you'd be shocked how young some of their top creative directors are. I'm not at all surprised to see Apple trying to develop this effort internally.
 
I don't have a college degree in marketing. but I'm 100% sure! that the number 1 most imortant thing in marketing.. is to have a great product! the majority of people are not stupid

Majority of people are stupid even when they believe they aren't.

Psychology of marketing is powerful stuff.
 
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Lol I didn't say any of that, you did. Back off with forcing assertions and answering your own questions. My argument is consistent and clear: Apple is dropping the ball in terms of product design and innovation (most notably the Mac). If you have a chip on your shoulder the size of the infinite loop about offending people, that says more about you than me.

You are making personal assertions about design and innovation and projecting that as fact. Many people feel differently and continue to purchase Apple product in huge numbers. Simple as that.
 
You are making personal assertions about design and innovation and projecting that as fact. Many people feel differently and continue to purchase Apple product in huge numbers. Simple as that.

And now so are you.
 
And now so are you.

How do you figure? One is opinion and the other can be backed up with data.

Apple is dropping the ball in terms of product design and innovation (most notably the Mac).

Whether you agree or not, this is purely opinion.

Many people feel differently and continue to purchase Apple product in huge numbers.

The word "many" in this case is somewhat ambiguous, but despite sales numbers not being as strong in some areas Apple is still selling a large quantity of products. Seems to me that would make this statement more verifiable than the former.
 
Quote:
Platitudes...

Some of the best Dilbert cartoons are when he is ordered to go talk to marketing.
The sign over the marketing department reads: "Welcome to Marketing, Two drink minimum"
 
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