Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It is a simple fact that anytime you give your information to another company it will get sold at some point. Let's not try to pretend it doesn't. Every TOS says they have the right to do so, including Apple's. Apple buries it in legalese, but it is there.

That's not necessarily true though. I want to know specifically what Apple sells to other companies.
 
Just because Apple has billions of dollars stored away somewhere doesn't mean they can try to influence other countries politics. Deal with it!
Eggheaded legislation (like EU's Right to Whitewash History) have far reaching and global implications. I would hope companies would have a classical liberal rights (freedom of speech and individual freedom) view in mind when dealing with any countries government when those countries discuss enacting draconian laws. Deal with it.
 
Our local Federal Member was recently, after the last leadership tussle, made Minister for Science and Technology. And her background and experience? Well, we don't actually need any professional skillset to do these jobs. Sigh. No doubt she is across all of the implications of this push for decrypting... hahaha.

For too long, we have had governments with no vision. Apart from getting their perks at the end of four years. It's a joke how many Prime Ministers we've had (and who hangs around hoping one day again he will be Prime Minister).

This same government annoyed at encryption is the same government who a few days ago was happy to legislate that gay kids and teachers could be expelled from publicly funded church run schools. Human Rights breach? Um, geez, didn't think of that...

And today PM Morrison turns around and wants to enhance anti-discrimination laws. HUH??? No, no, no, yes. Let's just turn on a dime when social media turns against us.

Time for a voting change. Neither major party has the interests of the people foremost in their minds.

We seriously need enough SENSIBLE, EDUCATED, NORMAL, independent members who can force minority governments to stay on track. We have no leadership.

The general public are so far ahead of the political climate. Bring on euthanasia laws. The public don't want to die in badly run and poorly monitored aged care facilities. Dignity. Choice.

Our government also wasted $120,000,000 on a non-mandatory, non-binding vote over Same Sex Marriage. That money could have been better spent in so many ways including drought stricken farmers. In the end, the spineless "leaders" went along with the public vote so they could do what they weren't brave enough to do themselves for fear of losing their jobs.

Please don't judge everyone here on the dimwits currently holding the reigns.
 
Apple only follows the law in China.

In China, there is no open, unencumbered debate. There is no freedom of expression. Either Apple deal with it or doesn't do business there. In Australia, there is open debate. Parties affected by proposed legislation have a forum to make their concerns known in open debate. Notice that Apple is criticizing a PROPOSED law.

Even in Australia, Apple has to follow the law. If this law gets passed, the time for speaking out is over. Apple has to comply.
 
I’m glad that Apple is standing up for the consumer when it comes to invasion of privacy. It’s one of the core reasons I solely use Apple products over Google/Microsoft/Amazon. The day that a manufacturer has the ability to let the government secretly record me is the day that device goes out the window. I will not allow such a product in my home. It’s why my Samsung Smart TV, is a dumb TV, unconnected to the internet. Because Samsung requires the ability to monitor my actions, and for a while could remotely enable the microphone and camera. https://www.cnet.com/news/samsungs-warning-our-smart-tvs-record-your-living-room-chatter/
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline
While I'm firmly against most of these kinds of regulations, this article is totally biased because it only shows Apple's side. I don't see anything about this bill weakening the encryption methods, nor do I have much idea of what the bill says.

There's always a danger of losing people's trust and having them turn against you because of dishonesty. That's kinda what happened with Net Neutrality.
 
Australians don’t talk like that? Really? I had no idea.

Next you’re going to tell me that Americans don’t hyuck-hyuck and punctuate every sentence with a gunshot as an eagle soars above their head to the background chant of U-S-A! U-S-A!

Thanks for keeping me right.


Sounds like a Trump rally ;-)
[doublepost=1539392290][/doublepost]
While I'm firmly against most of these kinds of regulations, this article is totally biased because it only shows Apple's side. I don't see anything about this bill weakening the encryption methods, nor do I have much idea of what the bill says.

There's always a danger of losing people's trust and having them turn against you because of dishonesty. That's kinda what happened with Net Neutrality.

There's a link to the Bill in the article, and there are responses to it from Government bodies, and the public and industry.
[doublepost=1539392570][/doublepost]
Our local Federal Member was recently, after the last leadership tussle, made Minister for Science and Technology. And her background and experience? Well, we don't actually need any professional skillset to do these jobs. Sigh. No doubt she is across all of the implications of this push for decrypting... hahaha.

For too long, we have had governments with no vision. Apart from getting their perks at the end of four years. It's a joke how many Prime Ministers we've had (and who hangs around hoping one day again he will be Prime Minister).

This same government annoyed at encryption is the same government who a few days ago was happy to legislate that gay kids and teachers could be expelled from publicly funded church run schools. Human Rights breach? Um, geez, didn't think of that...

And today PM Morrison turns around and wants to enhance anti-discrimination laws. HUH??? No, no, no, yes. Let's just turn on a dime when social media turns against us.

Time for a voting change. Neither major party has the interests of the people foremost in their minds.

We seriously need enough SENSIBLE, EDUCATED, NORMAL, independent members who can force minority governments to stay on track. We have no leadership.

The general public are so far ahead of the political climate. Bring on euthanasia laws. The public don't want to die in badly run and poorly monitored aged care facilities. Dignity. Choice.

Our government also wasted $120,000,000 on a non-mandatory, non-binding vote over Same Sex Marriage. That money could have been better spent in so many ways including drought stricken farmers. In the end, the spineless "leaders" went along with the public vote so they could do what they weren't brave enough to do themselves for fear of losing their jobs.

Please don't judge everyone here on the dimwits currently holding the reigns.

Hear hear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SMacDuff
Just because Apple has billions of dollars stored away somewhere doesn't mean they can try to influence other countries politics. Deal with it!
Care to share why you even think the people of Australia want this, I'm guessing you are not in Australia or versed in the pros and cons of encryption.

I suggest the rest of us in Australia make a submission quoting and agreeing with the ACS submission https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=b46fc472-5d30-496a-8b74-393e2b80a07a&subId=660366 or any of the other submissions - https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentar...d_Security/TelcoAmendmentBill2018/Submissions

Submit your submission here - https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/OnlineSubmission
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There's a link to the Bill in the article, and there are responses to it from Government bodies, and the public and industry.
I followed the link, and it doesn't really say anything. Sure anyone can look it up, but it's the news aggregator's job to make that not necessary.
 
If there’s one thing that you can’t criticize Apple for, it’s their stance on your right to privacy.

True,but the government refuses to set their facts straight on building NBN... They choose just to at it on a shabby network, and turn a blind eye to all the evidence by experts outside he government/NBN.

BUT when it comes to privacy they must listen ? I don't get it..

If our government wants to go at something, full force, do it... don't pop holes in a plastic bag for your own amusement. ,

I want privacy as well, i just don't understand why this multi-door concept. Apple doesn't run the govenment, yep they can THEM with backing off?
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline
Wich only counts for people outside of China.


They didn’t try much in China. Instead they gave iCloud keys over to government. Apple is a joke when it comes to privacy where it is really needed.
iCloud keys? Where did you learn this valuable information from?
 
It's an interesting topic and only going to become more and more heated as the years pass. I assume governments will eventually mandate backdoors into devices and all sorts, but this leaves me questioning two things:
  • First up, many governments politicians criticise encryption, while using it themselves to communicate. I wonder what they'll use to communicate when they've broken their own tools for communication and/or if they'll complain and get shirty when private communications are leaked/hacked/whatever else you want to call it. I guess, the public wins in this case as we get to hear all their dirty little secrets, and they opened the doors, stupidly.
  • Second, what is to stop a bunch of the big companies who have encryption on devices and services from joining together and simply saying, "no"? Yes, you'll all tell me that these countries will fine them and place restrictions on their devices being sold in the country, but indulge this scenario for me if you will. Facebook, Google, Amazon, Apple, Samsung and Microsoft all say no, they're not going to build a backdoor/weaken encryption. They state they're happy to continue complying with legal requests for help, but nothing else. How many governments would be willing to stop the sale of any Android, iOS/macOS and Windows products to prove their point? How long do you think the government would last before public revolt set in, what would happen to those countries economies during this period?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Google doesn't care for my privacy, and probably have secrets stored on a lot of people, but it would seem unlikely a country like Australia, or any of the others, would have the balls to cripple their own economy and in the process, shoot themselves in the foot as all their private conversations suddenly become a lot easier to eavesdrop on. It's a hot topic right now for sure. I just think these big companies, regardless of if they're friend or foe, aren't likely to simply comply considering the market power they hold these days.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The answer for Apple is simple. Cease supply to Australia. Problem solved. It's not like the AU market is more than a morning tea break to Apple.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DVD9
I understand the Left and Right Political continuum. I'm talking about Australian Conservatism, which is strikingly different than in the US. For instance, a ban on automatic rifles, handgun etc and tight control over who can own a Gun was introduced and enforced by the Australian Conservatives - The LNP. Today a majority of Australian's and Conservatives still support that legislation. Although, I believe US influences have had some effect. And this type of legislation is typical of Conservative Australian Governments. You're comparing our Politics to an Americanized standard, ours is closer to the UK. Even our Parliamentary system somewhat mirrors the UK's (Westminster). It's not as black and white as you suggest. And I see there are moves away from the major parties and I understand the dissatisfaction of the electorate, but turning to minor party's as an answer to our problems could very well cause even more divisions and problems.

That's not true at all. Both left and right wing governments want more and more totalitarian control. Who do you think came up with PNAC, the war on terror, Homeland Security, the NSA, warrantless wiretaps, in the US etc.? Who wanted more and more totalitarian surveillance in the name of 'law and order' It was the neo-cons.

No need for tribalism, there's plenty of blame to go around.

But these people are not true conservatives. They are liberals or marxists masked as conservatives. A true conservative is one who believes in the constitution, patriotism and Christian faith. You can’t be a true Christian and advocate for loss of freedom for your citizens or taking away their privacy rights and more importantly going to foreign countries
to loot and slaughter innocent men women and children, instead of liberating them from oppressive regimes.

Father Bush and son were in no way true Christian conservatives who respected the constitution compared to people like Ron Paul, Trump and his administration. That is why Trump didn’t start any new war like his predecessors did. Because he is a man of God and believes in conservative values and leading the country to a path of prosperity, contrary to what most of people believe about him, his actions prove that.
 
Last edited:
But these people are not true conservatives. They are liberals or marxists masked as conservatives. A true conservative is one who believes in the constitution, patriotism and Christian faith. You can’t be a true Christian and advocate for loss of freedom for your citizens or taking away their privacy rights and more importantly going to foreign countries
to loot and slaughter innocent men women and children, instead of liberating them from oppressive regimes.

Father Bush and son were in no way true Christian conservatives who respected the constitution compared to people like Ron Paul, Trump and his administration. That is why Trump didn’t start any new war like his predecessors did. Because he is a man of God and believes in conservative values and leading the country to a path of prosperity, contrary to what most of people believe about him, his actions prove that.

The 'ol Conservative "No True Scotsman " ... good luck with that.


Edit: It's so humorous that you even label conservatives who aren't "True Scotsman " as Leftists or Marxists haha
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline
The 'ol Conservative "No True Scotsman " ... good luck with that.


Edit: It's so humorous that you even label conservatives who aren't "True Scotsman " as Leftists or Marxists haha

Well, what do you call these politicians that don’t advocate Liberty and privacy rights for their citizens and they don’t respect the Constitution and the rights of people to own wealth and firearms? These are policies and values of a leftist, marxist ideology.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OLDCODGER
Well, what do you call these politicians that don’t advocate Liberty and privacy rights for their citizens and they don’t respect the Constitution and the rights of people to own wealth and firearms? These are policies and values of a leftist, marxist ideology.

Conservatives ,who people like you voted for.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.