Apple Criticizes U.S. Antitrust Bill That Targets the App Store

[visualseed]

If it was supposed to
be exactly for a decade, why did USB-C connectors appear on Apple devices instead of Lightning connectors before the 10 year mark?

Apple switched the Pro iPads and Airs to USB-C when they stopped marketing the iPad as just a “big phone.” They began positioning it as a modular computer to compete with laptops, needing USB-C and Thunderbolt to support storage and external displays rather than just charging and basic USB 2.0 connectivity. The USB 3 Lightning connectors in the first two iPad Pros technically worked, but performance was poor and accessory makers avoided them. It was awkward and required an extra passthrough power connector to supply power to external drives and hubs that needed it. iPad Lightning accessories were never a major focus of the MFi program the way they were for the iPhone anyway.

 

[visualseed]

The Lightning Connector was the exact reason why forcing Apple to adopt USB-C was the right choice. The industry was adopting standards (Micro-USB was already the natural standard at the time and USB-C was emerging pretty much everywhere as its replacement). LC was better than MicroUSB in literally only one way: it allowed people to plug a cable in without worrying about its orientation. It was also proprietary in a world moving toward standardization, and worst of all, it was incredibly fragile. It only lasted as long as it did because of Apple's early dominance in the smartphone market and third-party manufacturers needing to support iPhones.

Had Apple moved to a standard USB connector along with the rest of the industry, there would have been no need to make connection standards a part of the DMA. The most egregious parts of the DMA that people are complaining about in this thread (and every other thread that talks about the DMA) are things that are there because Apple abused their market position.

Micro-USB was terrible and the EU's first pass at this was to standardize on it. USB-C didn't even exist as a standard when Apple introduced lightning. USB-C charging is also not required by the DMA. It's part of the EU's Common Charger legislation. Were the 1500+ vendors still shipping devices using Micro-USB long after USB-C was released abusing their market position?

 

[jakey rolling]

Were the 1500+ vendors still shipping devices using Micro-USB long after USB-C was released abusing their market position?

LOL.

How about we sit on this question for just a few minutes and let you have a think for a while on what it means to "abuse a market position" in the context of this discussion. I think you might actually be able to come up with an answer yourself if you really try.

 

[visualseed]

LOL.

How about we sit on this question for just a few minutes and let you have a think for a while on what it means to "abuse a market position" in the context of this discussion. I think you might actually be able to come up with an answer yourself if you really try.

It is adorable that you think "market position" only applies to a single multi-trillion-dollar company. A swarm of thousands of vendors flooding the market with cheap, fragile, e-waste-generating garbage absolutely dominates the consumer market. They abused that collective position to stall a global tech standard purely to pad their margins. Apple abusing a premium ecosystem market is bad, but Chinese companies acting as a decentralized cartel to sabotage a universal standard because cheap Micro-USB ports saved them a few pennies is infinitely worse for both consumers and the environment. Take your time digesting that one and let me know if you need me to draw a diagram.

 

[germanbeer007]

You know how democracy works? It's not Amy Klobuchar's decision, a person elected by the people present a law that gets voted by a parliament elected by the people to represent them

Amy Klobuchar received $2 million in campaign donations last year such as pro-israel donors and she voted for legislation sending billions to Israel. "democracy" lol

Odd how Amy listens to her donors using their wallets, yet Apple can't listen to customers voting with their wallets and instead has to listen to Amy.

Like I said, hypocritical.

 

[germanbeer007]

Nothing is stopping you from staying inside apple’s walled garden.
Why do you want to force others to do the same?

Amy Klobuchar is changing the walled garden. What do you mean?

 

[Luis Ortega]

Amy Klobuchar is changing the walled garden. What do you mean?

Nothing proposed affects your choice to live within the walled garden.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Godspeed, Amy and Chuck 🫡

 

[surferfb]

Nothing proposed affects your choice to live within the walled garden.

Adding alternate app stores and sideloading absolutely affects my choice to live in the walled garden. Because someone has knocked a big hole in the wall. Just because I don’t go in and out of the hole doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

If not being in a walled garden is important to you, there’s a really easy way to solve that problem without making those who do want a walled garden significantly less safe and secure.

 

[jakey rolling]

It is adorable that you think "market position" only applies to a single multi-trillion-dollar company.

I don't. I am fully aware that it can also apply to a few very big players making up the majority of a market (for reference see: Apple/Google/Microsoft, Exxon/Imperial Oil/Shell, or here in Canada: Sobeys/Loblaws/Overwaitea). What it specifically does not apply to is "thousands of vendors", each with a very small piece of a market. Outside of there being a cartel (such as OPEC) driving all of those thousands of vendors to collude, that is literally the opposite of a vendor having a "dominant market position" to "abuse."

A swarm of thousands of vendors flooding the market with cheap, fragile, e-waste-generating garbage absolutely dominates the consumer market. They abused that collective position to stall a global tech standard purely to pad their margins.

Again, you're beating up a strawman. Every other phone manufacturer had already adopted USB-C long before the EU adopted it as its standard (which is why the EU changed its direction), which by itself already shows your claim that they were somehow collectively holding back USB-C adoption as being utter nonsense. Just because some had not immediately jumped on board with it as soon as it became available doesn't mean they were "abusing their (non-)dominant market position" to keep USB-C from getting adopted. None of those 1500 vendors (either separately or collectively) were ever in any position to drive the market either toward or away from a charging standard. Apple has always been alone in this regard.

 

[I7guy]

[…]. Apple has always been alone in this regard.

agree. When Apple removed the headphone jack, that act literally forced other phone manufacturers to follow suit.

 

[turbineseaplane]

America alone is a larger iPhone market than Europe & China combined.

Why doesn't Apple keep innovating beyond USB-C for iPhone and lead the way in their largest and most important markets?

57% + of iPhone users could take advantage!

 

[Luis Ortega]

Adding alternate app stores and sideloading absolutely affects my choice to live in the walled garden. Because someone has knocked a big hole in the wall. Just because I don’t go in and out of the hole doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

If not being in a walled garden is important to you, there’s a really easy way to solve that problem without making those who do want a walled garden significantly less safe and secure.

How is it making you less safe if you don’t venture outside of it?
Nobody is forcing you to use anything you consider dangerous if you prefer security to freedom.

 

[turbineseaplane]

How is it making you less safe if you don’t venture outside of it?
Nobody is forcing you to use anything you consider dangerous if you prefer security to freedom.

The theory of that case is that large players with clout will leave the Apple App Stores and force users to do 3rd party App stores. (folks like Meta come to mind)

I'm not sure how true or not any of that is, or to what degree that happens on Android now (anyone?).

 

[visualseed]

I don't. I am fully aware that it can also apply to a few very big players making up the majority of a market (for reference see: Apple/Google/Microsoft, Exxon/Imperial Oil/Shell, or here in Canada: Sobeys/Loblaws/Overwaitea). What it specifically does not apply to is "thousands of vendors", each with a very small piece of a market. Outside of there being a cartel (such as OPEC) driving all of those thousands of vendors to collude, that is literally the opposite of a vendor having a "dominant market position" to "abuse."


Again, you're beating up a strawman. Every other phone manufacturer had already adopted USB-C long before the EU adopted it as its standard (which is why the EU changed its direction), which by itself already shows your claim that they were somehow collectively holding back USB-C adoption as being utter nonsense. Just because some had not immediately jumped on board with it as soon as it became available doesn't mean they were "abusing their (non-)dominant market position" to keep USB-C from getting adopted. None of those 1500 vendors (either separately or collectively) were ever in any position to drive the market either toward or away from a charging standard. Apple has always been alone in this regard.

You keep propping up Apple as the ultimate strawman, which just proves you have not actually looked at European market share. Apple does not even hold a monopoly on smartphones in the EU. Android controls roughly 65 to 70 percent of the market, and Samsung routinely beats Apple in annual European shipments.

Now take that minority smartphone share and dilute it across the 13 different device categories the EU mandate actually regulates like keyboards, mice, e-readers, portable speakers, powerbanks, vapes, and earbuds. Apple’s volume in that broader market is a rounding error.

But here is the absolute best part that completely destroys your entire premise. While the legislation was still being drafted, Apple had already communicated their roadmap to switch to USB-C directly to the European Commission. The EU knew Apple was making the switch anyway, and officials acknowledged as much. Apple was never their concern and it was never the hold out.

A governing body does not spend a decade drafting sweeping, multi-category hardware legislation just to force the hand of the second-place smartphone brand who was already updating their phones. They drafted it because the 11,000 tons of charger e-waste generated in Europe every year was overwhelmingly driven by thousands of budget gadgetmakers collectively refusing to abandon Micro-USB, Mini-USB, barrel adpters, etc to save a few pennies per unit. Apple is a convenient headline, but your "harmless" vendors were the actual environmental crisis the law was written to fix.

 

[jakey rolling]

The theory of that case is that large players with clout will leave the Apple App Stores and force users to do 3rd party App stores. (folks like Meta come to mind)

I'm not sure how true or not any of that is, or to what degree that happens on Android now (anyone?).

I suppose it should be easy to test that theory by counting the number of large players with clout who have left the Google Play store since side-loading and alternate app stores have been a thing on Android.

Pretty sure that number is: zero.

 

[surferfb]

How is it making you less safe if you don’t venture outside of it?
Nobody is forcing you to use anything you consider dangerous if you prefer security to freedom.

You're assuming there's a clean line you can simply choose not to cross, but the garden itself is what's being re-engineered. The APIs and pathways built to satisfy interoperability mandates will exist on every device regardless of whether any individual user ever touches an alternative marketplace. And "venturing outside" isn't always a deliberate choice; a lot of times it's a phishing text with a link that now actually goes somewhere, where before there was nowhere for it to go.

The fact of the matter is that a significant number of people choose Apple because of Apple's protections. "There's no way you can download a virus onto this phone" is a huge selling point for millions of Apple customers, and is central to Apple's brand promise. I can hand my kid or my mother-in-law an iPhone and know they're not going to get tricked into downloading spyware or a virus. That shouldn't be changed because you can't be bothered to use Android.

Your argument also assumes everyone using the device made the security/freedom tradeoff themselves. My mother-in-law's phone is "inside the walled garden" because I set it up that way, not because she evaluated her risk tolerance. The DMA and this copycat legislation doesn't ask her opinion either; it changes what her device can be talked into doing by whoever gets to her first.

iOS has always been a curated, walled ecosystem. You didn’t buy a general-purpose computer that Apple then restricted on you after the fact; you bought into a product whose security model was part of the advertised value proposition from day one. Again, that shouldn’t be taken away from everyone just because you don’t want to use Android.

 

[danpass]

The App Store has been around since 2008. Why wasn't this introduced back then?

This is a shakedown. When one niche is made successful it magically becomes a monopoly? Again, this is a shakedown, government run amock, political racketeering.

-

 

[GM…]

Why doesn't Apple keep innovating beyond USB-C for iPhone and lead the way in their largest and most important markets?

Why innovate when the majority either buys what is available or is happy with gimmicks?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Why innovate when the majority either buys what is available or is happy with gimmicks?

A fair point. I was just responding to this notion that "innovation on ports will stop" given EU mandates, but that is way less than half of iPhone sales anyhow.

They seem to have stopped on their own.

Maybe they've just realized USB-C is fine/good/great even?

I know I certainly am enjoying it more and more as I procure newer devices over time and am consolidating down on just USB-C. It'll still be a while for me though, as I'm an iPhone Mini user (Lightning) and there are no new ones for me to buy. That said, I rarely use the port as I almost always MagSafe charge now.

 

[surferfb]

A fair point. I was just responding to this notion that "innovation on ports will stop" given EU mandates, but that is way less than half of iPhone sales anyhow.

They seem to have stopped on their own.

Maybe they've just realized USB-C is fine/good/great even?

I know I certainly am enjoying it more and more as I procure newer devices over time and am consolidating down on just USB-C. It'll still be a while for me though, as I'm an iPhone Mini user (Lightning) and there are no new ones for me to buy. That said, I rarely use the port as I almost always MagSafe charge now.

I suspect the actual end result is an iPhone with no ports at all.

And half of MacRumors will scream Apple is maliciously complying with the EU's USB-C mandate, despite the fact that it would be physically impossible to put a USB-C port on the phone 🤣

 

[germanbeer007]

Nothing proposed affects your choice to live within the walled garden.

I never said it changes my choice to live in the garden.
I said, it changes the garden.

 

[CarAnalogy]

In other words, apples customer voted with their $$$ that the lightning connector was down in the priority on the list of negatives or not on the list at all.

If they had given a choice of a Lightning model and non-Lightning model of the same generation iPhone, I think people really would have voted for USB-C with their wallet.

It was more of a choice if, do I want to give up everything iPhone offers just to get rid of this stupid cable. No, I don't quite hate it enough.

 

[CarAnalogy]

I never once had an issue finding someone with a lighting cable if somehow I didn't have one.

When the 13 Pro was my current phone, neither did I. But that was years ago and even then it was still an uncommon, proprietary, special cable.

I don't know where all these Lightning defenders come from but no one is going to convince me my life was better when my phone took a special cable like it's the year 2008.

 

[Samplasion]

It was more of a choice if, do I want to give up everything iPhone offers just to get rid of this stupid cable.

People always bring that up as if it were as easy as tapping a button and having everything converted in one go.
Thankfully, interoperability legislation is making switching over from iPhone to Android and vice versa easier, but it's still a bit disingenuous to bring it up as a solution