Apple Customer service cheated on me!

[phpmaven]

This is very good point which I don't understand. And also why Applestore and AppleCare didn't mentioned that this is a replacement and they can't offer any refunds and this needs to be sent back to Apple? Both checked the serials and as I said manager admitted that they knew the situation before they got the computer.But they didn't share it till they have it. I don't even wanna talk about that cheap a.hole who sold this computer to my uncle.
And my other question, Apple has all of his information and why they don't try to get their money back from that guy rather than fooling me like that ? So this guy had new computer from Apple and money from my uncle and he is safe. Apple knew the situation but they will not do anything because somehow they had their computer back ? This is really ridiculous

It seems quite likely that they new it was a laptop that was supposed to be returned and of course they wouldn't have said anything to you since they would have assumed that you were the one that was supposed to have returned it. They convinced you to return it knowing that once you did, they would have their rightful property back and then told you that you were hosed.

Makes sense to me.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but you can't blame Apple. They are completely within their rights to do whatever they reasonably can to get their property back.

 

[simonsi]

I think the douchebag actually had it all figured out.

I think he did too - he may just claim the 2nd was intercepted and sold to the OPs Uncle by person's unknown....

Apple were lucky to get their property back, he probably figured Apple would take the loss on the deal so that was "OK" - he couldn't have predicted the OP would return it...

 

[simonsi]

They really cheated on me, this computer wasn't stolen so why they didn't try to get money from the buyer rather than fooling me?
I also have seller mobile phone number but he doesn't answer nor respond texts.

Apple didn't cheat on you, the seller did.
It isn't Apple's money, the MBP is their property.
Pass the mobile to the police - but it maybe a throwaway prepay. If you can't contact the seller then how should Apple?

Sorry you were scammed, I for one think you should edit (or ask a Mod to edit) the thread title. It is completely wrong.

 

[calderone]

Give it a rest. Apple is also out of a Macbook they were expecting to be returned, that is a theft from Apple as well as they were expecting it. This will most likely be escalated, who knows will happen.

Have some compassion for someone who is out $1700.

Please. Apple has not lost in this ordeal. They got the money and their return now. There is no way the purchaser was refunded in addition to getting the replacement.

It is tough to have compassion when basic reasoning hasn't been used. Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if the OP or uncle was trying to scam, because again why would anyone expect to be refunded when they had noting to do with the original transaction.

The story doesn't add up.

 

[swingerofbirch]

I think everyone has gotten this story wrong.

The computer that the OP's uncle purchased was a replacement computer, as the OP stated. I don't know where the idea is coming from that it's Apple's property. When Apple sends out a replacement computer they put a hold on your credit card for the full value of the computer until you send the old one back. There's no reason to believe the craigslist seller didn't send the original back (or if he didn't that Apple doesn't have the resources to charge him for the value of the replacement).

The issue is a policy one—can you return a computer that was a replacement? I would guess that you can't or the craigslist seller would have done it himself. Returning wouldn't make sense. It wasn't a newly purchased product—it was something provided under warranty. Having said that, I don't see why the craigslist seller did anything wrong in selling his property. It doesn't make it sound like he made any guarantees that the purchaser could return it to Apple.

The main issue is that when Apple issues a replacement computer they create a web order that looks identical to any other web order. I would say it is Apple's fault for not having a system that prompts a representative to see that and that Apple made a false claim about what it was able to do.

 

[simonsi]

I think everyone has gotten this story wrong.

You are assuming valid CC details were left. As Apple were chasing the machine it seems far more likely that it was Apple's computer that hadn't been paid for. It isn't considered paid for until the full amount has been charged, not just when a hold has been placed, holds don't guarantee final payment.

The return issue doesn't come up as it was Apple's property all along.

The OPs Uncle was sold a machine via Craigslist that it turns out Apple had an outstanding return (or outstanding payment) on. It really is as simple as that.

Likely this isn't the first time Apple has had this and have a protocol for it to reaquire their property.

----------

I wouldn't be surprised if the OP or uncle was trying to scam, because again why would anyone expect to be refunded when they had noting to do with the original transaction.

The story doesn't add up.

But in that scenario why post here? That doesn't add up at all if they are involved other than a defrauded party - can't imagine many crime will think "cool, we"ve got away with it, now lets proclaim our innocence on a forum"

 

[RianT]

I think everyone has gotten this story wrong.

The computer that the OP's uncle purchased was a replacement computer, as the OP stated. I don't know where the idea is coming from that it's Apple's property. When Apple sends out a replacement computer they put a hold on your credit card for the full value of the computer until you send the old one back. There's no reason to believe the craigslist seller didn't send the original back (or if he didn't that Apple doesn't have the resources to charge him for the value of the replacement).

The issue is a policy one—can you return a computer that was a replacement? I would guess that you can't or the craigslist seller would have done it himself. Returning wouldn't make sense. It wasn't a newly purchased product—it was something provided under warranty. Having said that, I don't see why the craigslist seller did anything wrong in selling his property. It doesn't make it sound like he made any guarantees that the purchaser could return it to Apple.

The main issue is that when Apple issues a replacement computer they create a web order that looks identical to any other web order. I would say it is Apple's fault for not having a system that prompts a representative to see that and that Apple made a false claim about what it was able to do.

There are missing pieces to this story. I read everything again and think it's just a little too weird.

1. Why would anyone sell a new computer $300 below MSRP and not provide any original document as well as the origin of the product if they are a legitimate seller?
2. If he was trying to scam OP, he couldn't have predicted that OP would try to return the computer to Apple. If OP hadn't, Apple would have just charged the seller's for that computer. The seller loses $300 in the end. Of course the credit card could have been a stolen one, which means the seller was originally scamming Apple and OP came in to be Apple's perfect shield.

There are just too many missing details. We still don't know who is at fault here.

 

[calderone]

You are assuming valid CC details were left. As Apple were chasing the machine it seems far more likely that it was Apple's computer that hadn't been paid for. It isn't considered paid for until the full amount has been charged, not just when a hold has been placed, holds don't guarantee final payment.

The return issue doesn't come up as it was Apple's property all along.

The OPs Uncle was sold a machine via Craigslist that it turns out Apple had an outstanding return (or outstanding payment) on. It really is as simple as that.

Likely this isn't the first time Apple has had this and have a protocol for it to reaquire their property.

----------



But in that scenario why post here? That doesn't add up at all if they are involved other than a defrauded party - can't imagine many crime will think "cool, we"ve got away with it, now lets proclaim our innocence on a forum"

People want validation, so they play the victim in an attempt to get sympathy. The sympathy will assist them in continuing their scam.

 

[capathy21]

One question that no one is asking....Since when can something purchased on Craigslist be returned to a company for a refund? It can't. The OP should have never tried to return this Mac to Apple. He didn't buy it from an Apple retailer. In that case, they should have told him that it couldn't be returned.

It is true that nothing is really adding up here but the first thing that came to my mind is, why return it to Apple to try to get a refund when you bought it from an individual?

Buying through CL gives you zero protection and definitely doesn't permit you to return something for a refund to the manufacturer.

I feel bad for your situation but the whole thing is just fishy.

 

[simonsi]

they should have told him that it couldn't be returned.

Why would Apple do that when they want their machine back?

The OPs story is he wanted to return as it had been bought for him as a present but he wanted to upgrade....then Apple offered a gift card...

 

[calderone]

One question that no one is asking....Since when can something purchased on Craigslist be returned to a company for a refund? It can't. The OP should have never tried to return this Mac to Apple. He didn't buy it from an Apple retailer. In that case, they should have told him that it couldn't be returned.

It is true that nothing is really adding up here but the first thing that came to my mind is, why return it to Apple to try to get a refund when you bought it from an individual?

Buying through CL gives you zero protection and definitely doesn't permit you to return something for a refund to the manufacturer.

I feel bad for your situation but the whole thing is just fishy.

Shockingly, I asked this very question a page back.

----------

Why would Apple do that when they want their machine back?

The OPs story is he wanted to return as it had been bought for him as a present but he wanted to upgrade....then Apple offered a gift card...

A present from someone on craigslist. We obviously don't know the complete exchange, meaning we don't know if the OP was forthcoming regarding the circumstances in which the machine had been acquired. Meaning they may have offered the refund thinking he was the original purchaser.

Regardless, to expect a refund on a product you did not purchase (whether apple agreed or not) is completely ridiculous.

 

[b3av3r]

One question that no one is asking....Since when can something purchased on Craigslist be returned to a company for a refund? It can't. The OP should have never tried to return this Mac to Apple. He didn't buy it from an Apple retailer. In that case, they should have told him that it couldn't be returned.

It is true that nothing is really adding up here but the first thing that came to my mind is, why return it to Apple to try to get a refund when you bought it from an individual?

Buying through CL gives you zero protection and definitely doesn't permit you to return something for a refund to the manufacturer.

I feel bad for your situation but the whole thing is just fishy.

This was my first thought when I read the post as well. I guess the craigslist seller told the uncle it was within the 14 day grace period and Apple just ran the serial number to confirm? I could see them issuing a gift card, not a cash refund, if the serial number matches but no receipt is present.

Based on the information the OP has given, I think this was a craigslist scam and the OP just happened to help Apple out.

CL guy buys laptop from Apple for $2000
CL guy calls Apple and gets a replacement sent out to him
CL guy uses bogus credit card or possibly a prepaid card with just enough on it to pass the hold verification???
CL guy gets brand new laptop from Apple and then sells 1st laptop for $1700
CL guy is out a few hundred bucks but has a brand new laptop
OP just happens to return the original laptop Apple has been waiting on and is now out his $1700 - CL guy never expected nor cared if this happened, he had his new laptop and his money

The fact a computer that could have been easily returned to Apple for 100% refund is sold for $300 under cost and the fact the CL seller can no longer be contacted are two huge red flags that this was a scam.

Also, if the above scenario is accurate then the laptop the OP's uncle purchased was technically stolen. And with stolen property, the buyer loses the item (it is returned to the proper owner, in this case Apple) and is not reimbursed their money unless the thief is caught and prosecuted.

I don't want to come off as victim blaming but this should be a very costly learning lesson. Set a dollar amount you are comfortable losing and don't buy any items above that dollar amount from CL, ebay, etc. where you are not protected.

 

[snorkelman]

The computer that the OP's uncle purchased was a replacement computer, as the OP stated. I don't know where the idea is coming from that it's Apple's property. When Apple sends out a replacement computer they put a hold on your credit card for the full value of the computer until you send the old one back. There's no reason to believe the craigslist seller didn't send the original back (or if he didn't that Apple doesn't have the resources to charge him for the value of the replacement).

uhuh.. if the seller had returned the original one/apple had got their money from the cc hold then yes, they might well still be refusing to do the 2070 gift card (on basis OP wasnt original purchaser etc)

but they wouldnt be holding onto the machine and advising the OP to contact the police then, would they? Instead they'd be sending him the machine back with a polite note telling him a gift card exchange isn't possible due to X Y or Z. So I think we can safely rule that out

It looks much more like this machine has been flagged for return on basis of:

non payment of an original purchase (cc card disputed once the bill came in to the actual card holder)

non return of an advance replacement followed by subsequent inability to complete the billing for the no show original machine they expected back (either initially when they attempted to take the payment, or as per above found the payment disputed by the real cardholder).

Advance return is perfect scam for a creditcard fraudster burning cards; Done in rapid succession they get two bites of the cherry (or apple) on the one card. First for the initial purchase they never return and second when apple try to get payment for the advance replacement. Likewise that single laptop purchase followed by a funding hold is less likely to set a CC companies alarm bells ringing than 2 high end laptops purchased on same card in space of a week.


Ordinarily Id suspect the CC company will take the hit rather than the merchant themselves, but I expect they'll obligate the merchant to have measures in place to recover the goods wherever that proves possible.

Like put an outstanding return flag against the units serial number so if it ever
does show up (for warranty, repair, or quality program recall) it gets retained.

It sounds that in this case, for Apple it was possible.

 

[simonsi]

See the OPs post, when he enquired if it was possible Apple told him it was still within the return period...

If he had posted on here asking no doubt someone would have said "ring Apple", that is what he did (he says), and Apple invited him to return it (no doubt to get their machine back), they even offered the carrot of a gift card (of course they didn't know if he was the original purchaser/returnee...

----------

It looks much more like this machine has been flagged for return on basis of:

non payment of an original purchase (cc card disputed once the bill came in to the actual card holder)

non return of an advance replacement followed by subsequent inability to complete the billing for the no show original machine they expected back (either initially when they attempted to take the payment, or as per above found the payment disputed by the real cardholder).

Advance return is perfect scam for a creditcard fraudster burning cards; Done in rapid succession they get two bites of the cherry (or apple) on the one card. First for the initial purchase they never return and second when apple try to get payment for the advance replacement.

Ordinarily Id suspect the CC company will take the hit rather than the merchant themselves, but I expect they'll obligate the merchant to have measures in place to recover the goods wherever that proves possible.

Like put an outstanding return flag against the units serial number so if it ever
does show up (for warranty, repair, or quality program recall) it gets retained.

It sounds that in this case, for Apple it was possible.

Agree with all this, also likely Apple would have taken the hit as the hold would have expired before the payment failed (but after Apple shipped so on Apple risk).

Occams Razor applies, this was just likely a scam, Uncle was duped and OP asked Apple a question, runaway train started from there. Of course if he hadn't, likely it would have come to light if he had ever claimed on Applecare, may even have come to light when attaching to iCloud/App Store or similar....

 

[acctman]

something most people missed the OP was returning the MBP to Apple in which would have resulted in a greater profit at the expense of Apple. So the CL seller scammed the OP and then the OP was trying to get one over on Apple. In the end Apple (product back) and the CL Scammer ($1700) won :/

 

[konradsa]

Oh man, after reading all of this, the should be a lesson to anybody buying property on CL or from private sellers on eBay. Always ask for a receipt, and be very suspicious. But I am not even sure if that would prevent being scammed 100% of the time. It's a risk you take, and you need to decide for yourself if it's worth taking.

But I have to agree with what has been said already: Apple is not at fault here, it's the OP that has purchased stolen property, and the way that works out in front of the law is that the property can be returned to the rightful owner (Apple) and the buyer (OP) loses out. Wether the buyer had knowledge or not that the property was stolen makes no difference here.

And good luck trying to get the police to do something here. They will most lucky not do anything for low-level property crime like that.

 

[fcarreraf]

you were greedy and it backfired

 

[doftin]

you were greedy and it backfired

This was one of the stupidest comment that I read so far. What makes you think I am greedy? Firstly, I got this as a gift and when I went AppleStore I mentioned that we bought it from Craiglist, I don't know the original owner, I don't have receipt and any information and what are my options because if I can I would like to pay difference and buy the higher model. They checked computer and serial and they said I can get a gift return if i ship it back to Apple which I did. Secondly, should we consider this computer as stolen? Because Apple should have charged the seller till they get the computer. Basically they covered their lost, fooling me. My main concern is, a big company like Apple should play a games like that? If this computer flagged, why they didn't tell me before I ship?

My friend told me his story with the dell, 1 year ago, he bought dell computer from Ebay and he had problems with hardware and computer was still on warranty. However, Dell costumer service told him, this computer was replacement and the original owner should have sent it and Dell told exactly this to my friend " if you ship it back to us, we need to seize this computer" than my friend contact with eBay and able to get his money.

So why Apple didn't warn me and played with me ? There are notes on my account which is saying they will issue me a gift card.

I was so clear with everything on my side and I didn't try to fool anybody.

 

[RianT]

This was one of the stupidest comment that I read so far. What makes you think I am greedy? Firstly, I got this as a gift and when I went AppleStore I mentioned that we bought it from Craiglist, I don't know the original owner, I don't have receipt and any information and what are my options because if I can I would like to pay difference and buy the higher model. They checked computer and serial and they said I can get a gift return if i ship it back to Apple which I did. Secondly, should we consider this computer as stolen? Because Apple should have charged the seller till they get the computer. Basically they covered their lost, fooling me. My main concern is, a big company like Apple should play a games like that? If this computer flagged, why they didn't tell me before I ship?

My friend told me his story with the dell, 1 year ago, he bought dell computer from Ebay and he had problems with hardware and computer was still on warranty. However, Dell costumer service told him, this computer was replacement and the original owner should have sent it and Dell told exactly this to my friend " if you ship it back to us, we need to seize this computer" than my friend contact with eBay and able to get his money.

So why Apple didn't warn me and played with me ? There are notes on my account which is saying they will issue me a gift card.

I was so clear with everything on my side and I didn't try to fool anybody.

This may be a little far-fetched but it seems that the employees you talked to know certain protocols to handle missing replacement items. They most likely assumed you were the original owner and trying to scam them for a $2000 gift card, but they did not have the proof so they tried to trick you into sending the computer back. I would try to get this escalated if I were you, but you gotta have some evidence of the convos between you and whoever you talked to from Apple, or the proof that your uncle purchased the computer from the CL guy.

you were greedy and it backfired

I suggest you sign up for an English class at the nearest community college. Reading AND understanding are fundamental.

 

[Menel]

That was my point. I've done some of these "cross shipment" exchanges with companies in the past. They ALWAYS a require a credit card. And the run a hold against my credit line to protect themselves. They typically release the hold when they receive their product.

They have their product returned, thanks to the OP.

 

[LuvKaya]

ouch... hard pill to swallow.

 

[inkahauts]

Just to chime in a bit...

First anyone saying they don't get why anyone thinks they can return something they didn't buy, you must never have exchanged an item that was a gift from Christmas or anything else. It happens daily everywhere. Millions of gifts get returned for gift cards after Christmas for more money than this... The key is they get gift cards so they just speed it on a different item...

Second, we really don't know one key thing, and if I was the op, I'd call back and get this key piece of info... Was this the laptop that was broken and being exchanged by the cl guy and therefore he just sold it instead of returning it, or was this the replacement, he sent back the broken one and then sold the replacement to the uncle?

If it's the latter, apple is just wrong and should simply ship back the the thing, or do the right thing and offer this guy a gift card since they have given him a large run around. Apple has no right to seize it in this scenario. They only have the right to refuse to exchange it or give a gift card for it....

However, I suspect it's the fist one, since they told the op to call the police.

If I was the op I'd call get more details, then call the police in either scenario, assuming they don't issue him a gift card or send him back the MacBook he sent in. I'd also ask to speak to someone higher up and ask if there's anything Apple can do to help in the police investigation. I would act like an idiot and ask for info on how this guy could have pulled this off without them getting a credit card etc, and why they where not able to get their money back that way. If they did, then as a big company, they should be good to this customer and give him a gift card. Heck even if it's for the 1700. But I bet as others said this guy used a stolen card, and maybe even was exchanging a stolen MacBook, you never know. I've seen some shady stuff myself.

 

[5to1]

I very much doubt Apple would have shipped the Laptop in Advance without securing payment against original purchasers CC. This could be a case of CC Fraud as others have mentioned.

But I suspect its actually a case of mail fraud piecing together events and the OP's version of what Apple told him:

1) Original purchaser buys Laptop
2A) Original purchaser returns it (either for refund or exchange)
2B) Or this is an exchange Apple shipped to original purchaser and it hasn't reached him/her yet
3) Some light fingered mail man/sorter lifts the laptop
4) Sells it on craigslist to OP's uncle
5) Uncle/OP don't question why person selling it would take $400 loss rather then make a phone call to return it. Probably obtained serial number and checked it, putting their minds at ease this was new machine and not marked as stolen by Apple.
6) OP tries to turn $400 profit on it
7A) Apple think at this point perhaps original purchaser didn't ship it back before/etc so advise (thinking its still a case of a 14 day return) "yes ship it back and we'll refund you".
7B) Apple think tracking hasn't updated and this is original purchaser returning the exchange machine now.
7C) Or perhaps they knew it was stolen by now and lied to get their property back
8) Apple get the machine back. Depending on 7, they either new it was stolen all along. Or in the intervening days the original purchaser has asked where the hell their refund/replacement machine is.
9) OP is screwed

I feel sorry for you/your uncle OP, but the old adage "if its too good to be true......" applies here. What you essentially thought you'd got was a $2100 Apple gift card for $1700. Or to put it another way, for this deal to be kosher, the seller chose to take a $400 hit and risk meeting a stranger to sell an expensive laptop rather then make a two minute call to Apple to get a full refund :/

 

[snorkelman]

My main concern is, a big company like Apple should play a games like that? If this computer flagged, why they didn't tell me before I ship?

Because if they knew at the point you took it into the store they'd have seized it on the spot, not 'warned you about sending it back' or let you walk back out the door with it.

Just as the terms of Apple getting insurance to cover store thefts is having decent locks and security measure in place in their stores, the terms of their credit card merchant status (and credit card companies covering them for the hit) is going to include pursuing recovery of fraudulently obtained goods whenever that proves possible - not dropping folks a hint that they 'shouldn't be bringing that particular machine back into us'.

The only things apple could do differently amount to measures that would alert them to problem purchases sooner

While that could conceivably help tip prospective buyers off to something iffy if they got serial checked out before they bought a second hand machine, it would have been of zero positive impact in your Uncles case; where he'd already paid by that point (ie machine would have been seized in the store).

Everything taking place within 14 days of the original 'purchase' is no time at all for all the potential problems to surface - especially when a lot of credit card holders still rely on monthly paper statements to check their card transactions and report dodgy ones.

Bottom line - your uncle had his money fleeced from him before you ever set foot in the Apple store; by the scamming swine he bought it from on Craiglist. What happened after that was the legitimate owners recovering their property.

Most of us do sympathize its a stinking thing to have happen but Apple are no more to blame than a car dealer turning up to repo a car you bought in good faith from what turned out to be a thief who had no right to be selling it.

 

[simonsi]

Bottom line - your uncle had his money fleeced from him before you ever set foot in the Apple store; by the scamming swine he bought it from on Craiglist. What happened after that was the legitimate owners recovering their property.

Most of us do sympathize its a stinking thing to have happen but Apple are no more to blame than a car dealer turning up to repo a car you bought in good faith from what turned out to be a thief who had no right to be selling it.

Best summary yet.