Trying to unravel the backstory is pointless. The employees at the store made a verbal (is there any documentation?) contract with with the OP for the gift card. I would go to the store (with an authority figure if need be) with the tracking number etc and demand they fulfill their end of the deal. A miscommunication between the store and corporate is not YOUR problem. If the OP has now made a new agreement that supersedes his/her original agreement then all bets are off.
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Apple Customer service cheated on me!
- Thread starter doftin
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Trying to unravel the backstory is pointless. The employees at the store made a verbal (is there any documentation?) contract with with the OP for the gift card. I would go to the store (with an authority figure if need be) with the tracking number etc and demand they fulfill their end of the deal. A miscommunication between the store and corporate is not YOUR problem. If the OP has now made a new agreement that supersedes his/her original agreement then all bets are off.
Pretty sure a contract made around property obtained by fraud is unenforceable and null and void - the back story is actually key to that, not pointless.
The backstory was given to the store employees at the time/before the verbal contract was made...
But the full backstory was that the machine had been obtained fraudulently at worst and retained after non-payment at best. The OPs story, even if correct in every detail, does not make the machine his.
Good luck with the OP getting any legal opinion to agree with you, courts tend to go on the full facts, not anyone's interpretation or partial view (as the OP would have had).
I agree. The backstory is completely sketchy at best and could very well be a troll. As a store employee I would not have promised anything....Especially if there were transactions outstanding with regards to the machine. They checked the computer serial number, heard the cragislist story and still made the call on the spot to give the OP the $2070.00 credit.
The back story that was given to the store employee was, at best, suspect. The facts as stated by the OP were not complete, nor have they turned out to be accurate. Any contract, verbal or written, would be contingent on the voracity of the story that the OP told to the Apple rep, and it would be colored by the facts in this case.
Apple was defrauded by the original purchaser, and the OP was involved after the fact with stolen property. Both the fraud and stolen property are material to the situation. The OP has no recourse against anyone. The OP's uncle may have recourse against the original purchaser/CraigsList scumbag, but that is all - assuming that anyone can find/identify him/her.
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Takes two parties to make a contract - the OP couldn't enter a contract with anyone regarding that machine as he didn't have legal title to it.
Whether he knew its legal status or not (and we can all pretty much agree he wasn't aware of its dodgy nature) is irrelevant. He cant hold the other party to the terms of a contract he was never entitled to enter into.
e.g. Suppose I lend my next door neighbor my less than 14 days old Macbook for a couple of days. He calls apple quotes the serial number and asks to exchange it for a gift card.
They check the serial number see its within the 14 day return period and with no evidence at that stage to suggest otherwise, follow standard procedure and agree.
regardless of whether my neighbor opted to have that taped, video'd or notarized in blood does anyone seriously think Apple would be bound to honor that once it transpired that the laptop didn't belong to him?
Whether he knew its legal status or not (and we can all pretty much agree he wasn't aware of its dodgy nature) is irrelevant. He cant hold the other party to the terms of a contract he was never entitled to enter into.
e.g. Suppose I lend my next door neighbor my less than 14 days old Macbook for a couple of days. He calls apple quotes the serial number and asks to exchange it for a gift card.
They check the serial number see its within the 14 day return period and with no evidence at that stage to suggest otherwise, follow standard procedure and agree.
regardless of whether my neighbor opted to have that taped, video'd or notarized in blood does anyone seriously think Apple would be bound to honor that once it transpired that the laptop didn't belong to him?
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Dont get me wrong I think that everyone is getting the shaft here (except the CL guy) its a sour deal all around but if the backstory that was given to the store employee was suspect then there should have been no promise of a refund/credit. Who does any of this?
lol They would not give the credit because they do their due diligence and see he isnt you...He didn't have a receipt of any proof of title so they should not have promised a credit in first place.
The store didn't say anything about a refund or credit (according to the OPs account). They advised that he call the Apple online store.
We don't know what the OP said to anybody other than what is being stated here. What we do know is that:
- Apple is not going to refund someone who had nothing to do with the original transcation. They would be setting themselves for all kinds of issues.
- Apple expected a machine to be returned for this order. They are within their right to keep it.
The OP, whether at fault or not, got screwed no doubt. However, Apple is under no legal obligation to furnish the OP with anything, whether it be a credit or hardware.
Yeah thats right the promise of a refund was made over the phone not in the store, my bad. This whole thing is just sketchy. I would not expect the OP (a third party) to be promised a credit at all with issues/transactions still outstanding with the machine.
We don't know to what degree the OP was honest. My guess is that the OP acted as if he was the original purchaser since he had the web order number.
But really who knows. We are getting one side of the story. What I do know is that the OP and uncle are pretty screwed in this scenario.
I would agree with the previous assessment however that the OP was greedy and has now cost his uncle $1700 with nothing to show for it.
Hindsight is always 20/20 I could have easily been in his place if I didnt think through things I normally would
All i can think of is that it was listed as stolen. In this case the buyer has no rights and looses out. Given that you were told to contact the Police, it sounds like you were done over by the guy on Craigs List. The law says it is returned to the original owner or retailer. In this case Apple, where they have to drill a hole in it and toss it in the recycle bin. Its not a great day for you...
Let's say you agreed to buy my car. You ran some checks to make sure it wasn't stolen, they all came back clean. So you agree to pay me $2100 if I deliver the car to your address tomorrow.
I deliver the car to you tomorrow, but in the intervening hours you've discovered this is in fact your car, that someone stole and sold to me. Would our verbal contract still Apply?
I can understand not retailing it out again but why the drilling of "a hole" (and through what??)??
I'm pretty sure a store employee can't create a contract, verbal or written, that supersedes Apple's corporate policies. If that was the case then friends could just create "verbal contracts" with their friends for whatever they wanted in a store.
Also, I would think the return policy would only extend to the original purchaser of the product, who is not the OP. I think if the OP went to the Apple store and started his story off with, "I bought this laptop off CL......." then the Apple store would have stopped the conversation right there about any type of return, refund, or exchange. If the arrangement is made under fraudulent means, like an untrue or omitted story, then it doesn't mean anything anyway.
You know, we are all sitting here trying to figure out what really happened, but we simply do not know all the history. I also doubt Apple would try and "trick" him into returning the computer. There's simply no reason Apple wouldn't have given him the correct details right up front; I think they did and the OP just misunderstood.
What I'm not seeing here (unless I missed it), is what steps the OP and uncle are taking to pursue the Craigslist seller. I know I'd do my best to bring the guy who scammed me to justice.
They have some history there to include the original Craigslist posting, the sellers phone number, etc.
There is also information at Apple, like the sellers name, address, phone number, CC info, etc., that the police could use to try and bring this guy to justice.
What I'm not seeing here (unless I missed it), is what steps the OP and uncle are taking to pursue the Craigslist seller. I know I'd do my best to bring the guy who scammed me to justice.
They have some history there to include the original Craigslist posting, the sellers phone number, etc.
There is also information at Apple, like the sellers name, address, phone number, CC info, etc., that the police could use to try and bring this guy to justice.
This happens all the time. The buyer has to to do their due diligence to insure that the ownership is legit and that that all is inspected and sound before buying. Just like in real estate there is an inspection period and right to cancel before closing...and those are contracts were this safety is written in. When it comes to verbal and informal off-the-cuff/street contracts I think that there is never really any safety net for anyone. This whole concept/conflict is the reason judicial government exists.
I think that this happens all the time too...and then company is obligated to satisfy the customer or not and then employee gets fired lol By the sketchy account given they had the unit number and knew that he wasn't the owner and that there might have been outstanding transactions. It just doesn't add up.
I feel like there are whole heaps of info here that is just missing and assumed. A gift card may have been mentioned but no actual dollar amount promised. I dont imagine any employee in their right mind actually promising the OP a $2070 credit after hearing that he/she bought it on craigslist lol but then I have seen and heard about some pretty outstanding customer service at the Apple store where even greater sacrifices/replacements were made to ensure customers were satisfied. The OP was obviously looking to work the system to upgrade his specs and it backfired. A bird in the hand lesson learned.
This is actually remarkable. Here in the Netherlands, most people don't pay by Creditcard, but they use their ATM instead. With your ATM you can also pay online via 'iDeal', which is online payment services in the Netherlands.
If you want a replacement trough AppleCare (with Express, so getting the new one before returning the old), you'll need a creditcard. But if you're still in the 14 day returning period, they send you a brand new packaged one (before returning the old one) without having your creditcard details.
I just received my 2nd MBPr 15" within the 14 day returning period, still have the 'old' one here ready to be picked up by TNT and they didn't ask for my creditcard.
If you want a replacement trough AppleCare (with Express, so getting the new one before returning the old), you'll need a creditcard. But if you're still in the 14 day returning period, they send you a brand new packaged one (before returning the old one) without having your creditcard details.
I just received my 2nd MBPr 15" within the 14 day returning period, still have the 'old' one here ready to be picked up by TNT and they didn't ask for my creditcard.
Some interesting thoughts here but IMO this was the likely backstory:
Mr.Craigslist bought Apple laptop, kept it past the 14 day return policy but did not like it due some issues, the heavy weight of the laptop being the most influential factor. Decided to purposly tamper with the machine in order to get a brand new replacement sent out using his warrenty. Mr.Craigslit did just that, sent the first (now broken machine) back and recieving a brand new replacement. Little did Mr.Craigslist know that you cannot get a refund on brand new REPLACEMENT items and the 14 day return does not refresh.
Mr.Craigslist obviously disgruntled but with a brand new in box heavy laptop does what he does best...flog tripe on Craigslist. Along come Uncle OP, cold hard cash on hip, crispy notes and green fingured; hungry for that Apple product. They barter, back and forth, it's like a fiesty scene from Dragons Den or The Apprentice. They settle on the healthy sum of $1700 big ones. Mr.Craiglist rubs his hands and spends the proceeds on alcohol, women and fast cars, living a lavish lifestyle.
Uncle OP delivers his spoils to OP, young, fresh-faced but unhappy with the fruits of Uncle OP's labour. OP decides he wants to offload the heavy machine and takes it into the Apple store, believing it is brand new and within the 14 day policy. The genius at the Apple store was exactly that, a genius. He was wise to OP's game and decided to play a little on of his own. He tells OP (believing he is Mr.Craigslist) to ship the junk back to Apple, a remarkable way to teach Mr.Craiglist a lesson he will not forget. Playing with the apples and he gets oranges.
Apple - 1
Mr.Craigslist - 1,700
Uncle OP - 0
OP - 0
Mr.Craigslist bought Apple laptop, kept it past the 14 day return policy but did not like it due some issues, the heavy weight of the laptop being the most influential factor. Decided to purposly tamper with the machine in order to get a brand new replacement sent out using his warrenty. Mr.Craigslit did just that, sent the first (now broken machine) back and recieving a brand new replacement. Little did Mr.Craigslist know that you cannot get a refund on brand new REPLACEMENT items and the 14 day return does not refresh.
Mr.Craigslist obviously disgruntled but with a brand new in box heavy laptop does what he does best...flog tripe on Craigslist. Along come Uncle OP, cold hard cash on hip, crispy notes and green fingured; hungry for that Apple product. They barter, back and forth, it's like a fiesty scene from Dragons Den or The Apprentice. They settle on the healthy sum of $1700 big ones. Mr.Craiglist rubs his hands and spends the proceeds on alcohol, women and fast cars, living a lavish lifestyle.
Uncle OP delivers his spoils to OP, young, fresh-faced but unhappy with the fruits of Uncle OP's labour. OP decides he wants to offload the heavy machine and takes it into the Apple store, believing it is brand new and within the 14 day policy. The genius at the Apple store was exactly that, a genius. He was wise to OP's game and decided to play a little on of his own. He tells OP (believing he is Mr.Craigslist) to ship the junk back to Apple, a remarkable way to teach Mr.Craiglist a lesson he will not forget. Playing with the apples and he gets oranges.
Apple - 1
Mr.Craigslist - 1,700
Uncle OP - 0
OP - 0
how is this any different than buying a car on craigslist and finding out months later after the seller is long gone, that it was repo'd in the middle of the night bc it had a lien or it was flat out stolen and was retrieved by police. you're out on the money paid and there is nothing you can do about it after the fact
You're really losing me here I'm afraid. Whats the point of telling us about real estate law, why you think the "judicial government exists", the principle of caveat emptor, etc.
The point I and others have tried to convey to you is that your original post and assertions there in were incorrect. The Apple employees could have promised the OP anything, even if the OP had these promises written in a notarised contract with Obama himself as witness and several video's/recordings as evidence.
The one and only fact that matters is wether the OP had legal title to the machine. If its stolen, any promises, contracts, etc are null and void. Even if the Apple employee lied to the OP, it still doesn't make that contract enforceable, because the OP has no rights to that machine. It is entirely the OP's problem the moment it becomes apparent he has no legal title to the machine.
I'm sorry to labour this point, but misinformation such as your original post is likely to give the OP false hope. It is also possible other readers may foolishly believe there is a get out should they fall victim to a similar scam, by following the OP's example and your advice. It needs to be made absolutely clear to anyone reading this thread, no matter what promises you obtain from a third party to buy a stolen item in your possession, they are not enforceable.
It is you that will be left holding the can and your only recourse is against the person that scammed you. Even if you are lucky enough to pass the buck, sell the machine to some un-suspecting person, they would have every right to demand their money back once they discovered the machine was stolen.
OP the only thing you need to establish with Apple is if the machine is definitely stolen. (Since they advised you to call the police it appears to be the case). If it is, Apple are completely of the Hook and perfectly within their rights to recover the laptop. Even if they had to lie to you to do so. Your ONLY recourse is now against the craigs list seller.
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Yeah im not an attorney nor do I wish to act as one lol Im sorry if I lost you there.
All im trying to say with regards to this is that I hold every Apple employee to the same Apple standard. This is why they are comprehensively trained. They are all acting as agents that represent the company just like a police officer is acting to uphold laws that its citizens voted in place lol its about upholding a standard. As a manager I was always shocked by the amount of unsaid responsibility each of my employees has to the uphold the companies values. Managers are faced with either risking the company's rep and denying a refund/credit etc or backing their employee even though the employee is wrong...One way is pro customer and the other is pro company... but anyway. I honestly dont think that the OP had a right to anything at this point. As I mentioned in my previous posts I am beginning to feel as though there are tons of facts missing here. Sorry to get you all flustered.
He did not have legal title which should have been discerned before a credit was mentioned or promised. End of conversation. From the one sided account it sounds like the credit wasn't promised but mentioned as a possible resolution once the MBP was received. (if in fact is what had happened lol)
I agree that debating this point really is a hypothetical roll in the mud for apple, the OP, and ourselves. Which is why im surprised you decided to post this rant. Its not my intention to give the OP false hope. I feel that readers of this thread know that buying something off of CL is risky as it could be stolen and expecting Apple honor anything with regards to a CL item is ludicrous. Im sure they also know that this entire thread is a hypothetical and imaginary exercise on the internet.
Agreed!
LOL