Apple debuting two-button mouse?

[cube]

When I use a Unix system through the convoluted route of Citrix+VNC+X I lose the middle button. I end up having to retype whole series of commands because I cannot copy 'The Right Way' (plus, there's no right button menu in the VNC desktop). You have no idea what a painful waste of time this is.

Well, I just figured out that the problem with the right button menu was the xterm. Now I run CDE and I use a CDE Terminal and the right menu pops up. I also can paste with the middle button when using only VNC. I'll try going through Citrix later.

 

[Takeo]

More details on MacOsRumors.com

Head on over to http://www.macosrumors.com/20050317.php

They have a lot more detail on the design of this mouse. Essentially, it sounds like it will look exactly like the current mouse... by the sounds of it, you won't be able to tell the new 'two button' mouse from the current mouse. It will act as a one button mouse by default, but you can turn on right clicking in the mouse control panel. And it will have scrolling via a touch sensitive surface.

So my guess is, there is physically just one button/switch inside the mouse, but the touch-sensitive surface, when enabled, will sense which side of the mouse you are touching when you click. Scrolling will be accomplished, presumably, by stroking the top of the mouse.

Cool innovation, but the fact that the ergonomics (shape/size) are not changing and it's still one massive button means, in my books, it's still completely worthless... and probably even worse than the current mouse. For the love of Pete Apple... just give us a mouse with normal friggin' buttons!!!!!!!!!! And a decent size/shape!

This is yet another example of the cart pushing the horse. In this case, the idea of using a touch sensitive surface is driving the design instead of HUMAN FACTORS driving the design. Apple mouse design is all about cool looks or cool technology... human factors always takes a back seat. That's just bad design.

One thing I DO like is that with it being one-button by default, apps will still be able to work with one button. I agree that the idea of things being only available via right-click is bad UI.

 

[cube]

Well, I just figured out that the problem with the right button menu was the xterm. Now I run CDE and I use a CDE Terminal and the right menu pops up. I also can paste with the middle button when using only VNC. I'll try going through Citrix later.

It works. I just found out how to map middle button to middle click in Logitech Control Center

 

[Lynxpro]

Also, someone tell me what did you do in the Atari ST or the Amiga with the second button, because the only good thing about a second button is the context menu which didn't exist back then... "Yeah, I have two buttons one to click on some areas of the screen and the other to click on this other area of the screen called menu bar" So clever....

What? We could double click items, and the second mouse button was used for other purposes, depending upon the programs. Perhaps you should go to a garage sale and pick up an Atari 520ST or a Commodore Amiga 1000 to see for yourself what others have posted already in terms of the obvious.

 

[Lynxpro]

Offcourse Apple needs to copy good stuff from Windows!

Yeah, like copying its marketshare!

 

[mattster16]

big fuss over nothing

As a former Windows user I have to put my 2 cents in here. I have adopted just about everything about the Mac as being superior to Windows...except for the one button mouse. On my pb the one button trackpad is fine, trackpads always have limitations they just aren't as accurate or as quick to use as a mouse. When I use a mouse though, I prefer a two button mouse with scrollwheel. When I have to use a mouse, one or two button, without a scroll wheel it is like torture to me. I admit this is because i'm used to it, but aren't most windows users? They would have a hard time 'switching' to NOT having a scroll wheel.

In regards to right clicking, I find that I wish it was easier to bring up context menus. I know ctrl-click works, but I don't normally have my fingers resting on the keyboard when I am mousing, ESPECIALLY when using a laptop trackpad. It is just an extra step for me to find the ctrl key and press it and then click. I could just push down my middle finger for the SAME effect.

Here are some examples where I think context menus coupled with right click are the best choice. Sending to trash, I would much rather click send to trash then drag something to the trash, again especially with a trackpad. Spell check in Word, (maybe this is an example of the bad windows UI everyone is talking about) but to pick the correctly spelled word you have to right-click or ctrl-click on the word to get a context menu of words to choose from. When I right-click/ctrl-click on a file I pretty much get the contents of the file menu, isn't it easier to just right click then to click the file and then go to the file menu, it's just additional navigation.

We all realize the benefits of the Mac OS X, and we realize it would make many people's lives simpler if they didn't have to worry about spyware, viruses etc. The fact of the matter is that the average windows user who is considering mac to email, itunes, word process, and go online are not going to remember keyboard shortcuts. I am much more advanced then that type of user, and I don't even remember keyboard shortcuts, because of windows i'm not used to doing it. I also do not want to use the keyboard+mouse button to perform a single function I used to just do with a single finger. From a switchers standpoint I do not want to be forced to learn a new way of doing things just to have a better overall experience with the OS. OS X lends itself quite nicely to a 2-button or more mouse. Windows users do almost everything with mice, mac users use the keyboard or the two in conjunction more often. One IS NOT better than the other, it's just what you are used to.

 

[Zigster]

Everyone I know bails the one-button mouse and buys a two-button, so why not?

Apple is feeling confident again; time to go after the Windows users one more time.

 

[spinko]

exactly

Apple, just put a second button and scroll wheel on the mouse and get on with the rest

 

[maka]

About the poll

Just want to clarify that my comment about the poll was just another interpretation to show that from the same data you can always find a way to justify what you want... I don't personally think it was correct. It was just an example... But the poll is unfair, because it's one mouse against a group of mice...

The exact number of buttons is important, because no matter how many buttons Apple puts in their new mouse, some people are not going to think them enough...

What? We could double click items, and the second mouse button was used for other purposes, depending upon the programs. Perhaps you should go to a garage sale and pick up an Atari 520ST or a Commodore Amiga 1000 to see for yourself what others have posted already in terms of the obvious.

I did have an amiga, but what I remember the most is that right click was for the menus. It's been a long time since I used it, but when I got a mac I didn't miss the second button at all... so forgive me if I forgot about it...

Edit: BTW, the MOSR rumor seems reasonable enough. I wouldn't mind Apple making that mouse standard, but the right-click functionality should be turned off by default in all the computers, not just the imacs and ibooks... They need to keep the message to developers as clear as it is now... Also, if as they claim, the mouse is going to ship with new Macs, then I guess it would be a wired mouse, wouldn't it?

 

[Mac Dummy]

What? Is Apple worried about competition from Logitech and Microsoft?

Oh! BTW, I use a Microsoft notebook mouse with my Powerbook...SHHH! don't tell Steve.

 

[gopher]

Just want to clarify that my comment about the poll was just another interpretation to show that from the same data you can always find a way to justify what you want... I don't personally think it was correct. It was just an example... But the poll is unfair, because it's one mouse against a group of mice...

The exact number of buttons is important, because no matter how many buttons Apple puts in their new mouse, some people are not going to think them enough...



I did have an amiga, but what I remember the most is that right click was for the menus. It's been a long time since I used it, but when I got a mac I didn't miss the second button at all... so forgive me if I forgot about it...

Edit: BTW, the MOSR rumor seems reasonable enough. I wouldn't mind Apple making that mouse standard, but the right-click functionality should be turned off by default in all the computers, not just the imacs and ibooks... They need to keep the message to developers as clear as it is now... Also, if as they claim, the mouse is going to ship with new Macs, then I guess it would be a wired mouse, wouldn't it?

Don't forget they could go overboard!

 

[curmi]

Head on over to http://www.macosrumors.com/20050317.php

They have a lot more detail on the design of this mouse.

Been a long time since macosrumors was right about something.

If they are right though, then my fear about the lack of a middle button is valid. Though I'm not sure you could get a touch pad that was smooth and rounded to fit in with the current mouse shape - I haven't seen one. Certainly couldn't get that clear look that we currently have.

And if Apple made it two fingers to scroll (couldn't be one finger, as you would accidentally scroll when clicking) they'd have a problem - as many people click on their mouse with at least 2 fingers on it at the same time. So I'm not sure if this interface on a mouse would be usable.

 

[swindmill]

When using a trackpad, I think the one button is much easier to use. It's somewhat awkward to use a right click on a pc trackpad (I use my RH on the pad) as it requires an uncomfortable thumb maneuver. I'd much rather have one big target for a left click, and in the event that I need to right click the 'ctrl' key is just a few inches away and easy to tap with my left hand. With an actual mouse, I prefer two buttons, so I use a Macally bluetooth.

/just my two cents, having recently switched over from the 'two-button' pc empire

 

[jsalzer]

No need.

Oh! BTW, I use a Microsoft notebook mouse with my Powerbook...SHHH! don't tell Steve.

<GuiltTrip>

We don't need to tell him. Steve knows someone is doing this every time a tear rolls down his cheek.

</GuiltTrip>

 

[Takeo]

Very good points. I was wondering the same thing... what would happen if you have right click detection turned on and clicked with both (index and middle) fingers? I would assume it would register as a left click. I know that when I was a one-button lover I always clicked with both fingers. That was one reason I never wanted to go to two buttons... I was so used to clicking with both fingers. I'm glad my new iMac forced me to get a new mouse though as I now love my new laser mouse and could never go back to one button. Anyway... very good points about how such a design would work and what the problems might be... assuming MacOSRumors is correct Too bad apple apparently has no plans to change the overall shape/size of the pro mouse since that is a huge problem with their current design.

Been a long time since macosrumors was right about something.

If they are right though, then my fear about the lack of a middle button is valid. Though I'm not sure you could get a touch pad that was smooth and rounded to fit in with the current mouse shape - I haven't seen one. Certainly couldn't get that clear look that we currently have.

And if Apple made it two fingers to scroll (couldn't be one finger, as you would accidentally scroll when clicking) they'd have a problem - as many people click on their mouse with at least 2 fingers on it at the same time. So I'm not sure if this interface on a mouse would be usable.

 

[DrNeroCF]

No no no, not like a trackpad, the mouse will have an ipod like scroll wheel.

That's perfect, as the biggest problem with current mice as far as I'm concered is the constant stroking you have to do to keep going down a page (of course there's always the firefox with smoothwheel alternative).

And if anyone has an apple mouse on hand to confirm this, I remember there being a pretty distinct feeling between clicking with the left side of the mouse than there was with clicking with the right. Apple just needs to capitalize on this, and it would be perfect.

Sounds like it could be about time to take advantage of that bluetooth in my new powerbook...

 

[Dane D.]

I like the one-button mouse because I don't have to remember what all the other buttons do. That is a Mac, simple, no memorizing the mouse buttons, just click. Thats way I use a Mac, no figuring or configuring. I won't buy into it, one-button all the way.

 

[andrewm]

I should like to agree and add: People who claim that Apple's moving away from a superior keyboard-driven interface should examine NeXTStep (the predecessor to OS X). It supported things called 'mnemonics' on buttons that are, as any look at Cocoa developer documentation will show, not currently supported. But why, I ask, should I have to hold the command key in a dialog to see what the command-key combo is? Why can't I simply press the 's' key without any modifiers (command, control, option) to verify that I'd like to save all open documents? It seems like a step away from convenience, all (perhaps) for the sake of not appearing too Windows-like (or un-Mac-like).

Besides, I suspect that the single-button mouse will not die any time soon.

As a former Windows user I have to put my 2 cents in here. I have adopted just about everything about the Mac as being superior to Windows...except for the one button mouse. On my pb the one button trackpad is fine, trackpads always have limitations they just aren't as accurate or as quick to use as a mouse. When I use a mouse though, I prefer a two button mouse with scrollwheel. When I have to use a mouse, one or two button, without a scroll wheel it is like torture to me. I admit this is because i'm used to it, but aren't most windows users? They would have a hard time 'switching' to NOT having a scroll wheel.

In regards to right clicking, I find that I wish it was easier to bring up context menus. I know ctrl-click works, but I don't normally have my fingers resting on the keyboard when I am mousing, ESPECIALLY when using a laptop trackpad. It is just an extra step for me to find the ctrl key and press it and then click. I could just push down my middle finger for the SAME effect.

Here are some examples where I think context menus coupled with right click are the best choice. Sending to trash, I would much rather click send to trash then drag something to the trash, again especially with a trackpad. Spell check in Word, (maybe this is an example of the bad windows UI everyone is talking about) but to pick the correctly spelled word you have to right-click or ctrl-click on the word to get a context menu of words to choose from. When I right-click/ctrl-click on a file I pretty much get the contents of the file menu, isn't it easier to just right click then to click the file and then go to the file menu, it's just additional navigation.

We all realize the benefits of the Mac OS X, and we realize it would make many people's lives simpler if they didn't have to worry about spyware, viruses etc. The fact of the matter is that the average windows user who is considering mac to email, itunes, word process, and go online are not going to remember keyboard shortcuts. I am much more advanced then that type of user, and I don't even remember keyboard shortcuts, because of windows i'm not used to doing it. I also do not want to use the keyboard+mouse button to perform a single function I used to just do with a single finger. From a switchers standpoint I do not want to be forced to learn a new way of doing things just to have a better overall experience with the OS. OS X lends itself quite nicely to a 2-button or more mouse. Windows users do almost everything with mice, mac users use the keyboard or the two in conjunction more often. One IS NOT better than the other, it's just what you are used to.

 

[mpw]

I like the one-button mouse because I don't have to remember what all the other buttons do....

Is it really that much of a stretch to remember that the 2nd button brings up a menu?

That that menu will most likely be contextual will save you having to remember which menu to find the command you want should be a help in your situation.

Is one of the things that makes Mac Mac the lack of keyboard shortcuts that you don't have to memorize? One of the feature I prefer about MS Windows that I've not seen replicated in OSX.

 

[Takeo]

Surely this is sarcasim?

I like the one-button mouse because I don't have to remember what all the other buttons do. That is a Mac, simple, no memorizing the mouse buttons, just click. Thats way I use a Mac, no figuring or configuring. I won't buy into it, one-button all the way.

 

[titaniumducky]

Head on over to http://www.macosrumors.com/20050317.php

They have a lot more detail on the design of this mouse. Essentially, it sounds like it will look exactly like the current mouse... by the sounds of it, you won't be able to tell the new 'two button' mouse from the current mouse. It will act as a one button mouse by default, but you can turn on right clicking in the mouse control panel. And it will have scrolling via a touch sensitive surface.

So my guess is, there is physically just one button/switch inside the mouse, but the touch-sensitive surface, when enabled, will sense which side of the mouse you are touching when you click. Scrolling will be accomplished, presumably, by stroking the top of the mouse.

Cool innovation, but the fact that the ergonomics (shape/size) are not changing and it's still one massive button means, in my books, it's still completely worthless... and probably even worse than the current mouse. For the love of Pete Apple... just give us a mouse with normal friggin' buttons!!!!!!!!!! And a decent size/shape!

This is yet another example of the cart pushing the horse. In this case, the idea of using a touch sensitive surface is driving the design instead of HUMAN FACTORS driving the design. Apple mouse design is all about cool looks or cool technology... human factors always takes a back seat. That's just bad design.

One thing I DO like is that with it being one-button by default, apps will still be able to work with one button. I agree that the idea of things being only available via right-click is bad UI.

Are you kidding? That would be AMAZING! The beautiful Apple mouse with it's amazing form factor plus the ability to scroll and right click just by using a particular part of the one button.... I hope this rumor is true even though I probably couldn't buy it because I already spent way too much money on the bluetooth mouse .

 

[ClarkeB]

Wait...the second button is like control-click, right?

 

[Takeo]

I beg to differ about the "amazing form factor"... amazing looking yes... very nice... but completely unusable in my experience. Of course, everyone's experience is different.

Are you kidding? That would be AMAZING! The beautiful Apple mouse with it's amazing form factor plus the ability to scroll and right click just by using a particular part of the one button.... I hope this rumor is true even though I probably couldn't buy it because I already spent way too much money on the bluetooth mouse .

 

[auxplage]

Surely this is sarcasim?

Surely this is sarcasm (I use a one-button mouse (which I love), and if they spell it different in Canada, my apologies. )?

 

[gotohamish]

Been a long time since macosrumors was right about something.

If they are right though, then my fear about the lack of a middle button is valid. Though I'm not sure you could get a touch pad that was smooth and rounded to fit in with the current mouse shape - I haven't seen one. Certainly couldn't get that clear look that we currently have.

And if Apple made it two fingers to scroll (couldn't be one finger, as you would accidentally scroll when clicking) they'd have a problem - as many people click on their mouse with at least 2 fingers on it at the same time. So I'm not sure if this interface on a mouse would be usable.

If you haven't seen it, and you think it might be cool, isn't it pretty likely that that's what Apple will make?