Apple Debuts New 'Apple Pay' Ad in Ongoing 'If It's Not An iPhone' Campaign

[FieldingMellish]

I am a life long Apple fan, but the Apple Watch and Apple Pay, for me, has brought on Apple fatigue.

I’d not like to have a device or devices that become the be all and end all of my daily life.

 

[reclusive46]

For this to work, they should make it a standard. Thats mean Apple Pay could be integrated in other phones and modern devices.

Apple Pay is a standard. Its just EMV contactless, widely used in most places around the world outside of the US.

Many cards use the same contactless technology.

 

[Winni]

Apple does not collect transaction data from in-store transactions.

Do you really believe this?

 

[balamw]

Many cards use the same contactless technology.

Without the TouchID or tokenization that Apple Pay includes. Both important features that actually make it "work" for me.

B

 

[macnewbie91]

I'd like to see the government stick a foot up the businesses owner's/executive's asses about the change. American businesses don't look out for the best interest of their customer, so why would they care about upgrading their terminals to accept safer, more secure alternatives?

The mom and pop place I get haircuts still has a 20 year old card reader. When I asked her about why she uses an outdated, dial-up card reader, she suggested that I could buy her a new car reader. She's just the typical woman that would rather gossip with her woman friends than get up to date with business tactics and regulations.This is the same place I went to on MLK day expecting to get a haircut and they're closed, like okay.

 

[transpo1]

Terrible voiceover but great product demonstration.

 

[tmiw]

I'd like to see the government stick a foot up the businesses owner's/executive's asses about the change. American businesses don't look out for the best interest of their customer, so why would they care about upgrading their terminals to accept safer, more secure alternatives?

The mom and pop place I get haircuts still has a 20 year old card reader. When I asked her about why she uses an outdated, dial-up card reader, she suggested that I could buy her a new car reader. She's just the typical woman that would rather gossip with her woman friends than get up to date with business tactics and regulations.This is the same place I went to on MLK day expecting to get a haircut and they're closed, like okay.

I'd be glad my haircut place took cards at all. They're one of the only types of businesses around here that is cash only though so it might be different elsewhere.

 

[macnewbie91]

I'd be glad my haircut place took cards at all. They're one of the only types of businesses around here that is cash only though so it might be different elsewhere.

And severely inconvenience myself along with many other customers? The hair cutting places would lose most of their business if they didn't accept cards. Why is a hair cutting place any different than a gas station or a drug store?

 

[tmiw]

And severely inconvenience myself along with many other customers? The hair cutting places would lose most of their business if they didn't accept cards. Why is a hair cutting place any different than a gas station or a drug store?

I wasn't saying that they shouldn't take cards, just that barbers around here generally don't for whatever reasons they have. I think it's because they don't want to pay any CC fees, which is becoming less and less of an excuse as their prices keep going up.

 

[rdlink]

"Selling your data" implies that your personal details you share with Google such as email, location, websites etc are handed over to third parties to do with as they please which is simply not true. Google's monetisation model is genius as it benefits both parties, the user who gets to use services for free and the advertiser that gets to display very targeted ads to billions of people around the world. Meanwhile the user actually receives advertisements that are relevant to him/her.

So, as a consumer you've got the choice between giving one company all your data that it will only use to determine your interests/buying habits etc and recieve much better ads in return and fantastic free services. Or, you could pay a huge amount more to lock yourself in an incredibly tight and closed off ecosystem that has far inferior services to a company that still sells targeted ads and you still give a lot of your personal data to. The choice is pretty obvious in my view.

And, I'm not saying Google's perfect. Google Wallet isn't great and was a huge flop and no doubt Android Pay took a lot of ideas from Apple Pay, which is excellent by the way, and I hope it can work just as well. But, on the whole, I have absolutely no regrets about being in Google's ecosystem instead of Apple's.

I'm not sure when you were picked to be the arbiter of what selling your data implies, but your view is pretty skewed. Google does, in fact sell my data. My browsing habits are my data. Whether you consider it an invasion of your privacy is your business, but don't presume to tell me when I have been violated.

And your description of the 20 pound sledgehammer that is Google's "directed ad targeting" is laughable. If I look at a wax toilet seal on Home Depot's web site I don't consider it "directed ad targeting" when I get blasted with ads from Home Depot, Kohler, and every other company closely related to plumbing on practically every web site I go to for the next 4 weeks.

Far inferior services? Make me laugh. Remember that you're talking to someone who uses both, and has used both for quite some time. Yes Apple has a bunch of my data. And I sleep well at night knowing they do. Because I know they protect it voraciously, instead of putting it up to the highest bidder. That alone makes their services far superior, in fact.

If you find the value of Google's services worth their provision of your data to third parties you're not even aware of, go for it. But don't insult my intelligence by trying to state that they don't sell my data. Objectively, they do.

 

[macnewbie91]

I wasn't saying that they shouldn't take cards, just that barbers around here generally don't for whatever reasons they have. I think it's because they don't want to pay any CC fees, which is becoming less and less of an excuse as their prices keep going up.

I love community businesses, because they give competition to the national ones, but I find it hard to deal with them sometimes. My haircut is $5, compared to $12 at SUPERCUTS, but give me a break about inconveniencing your loyal customers to save 15 cents per transaction.

 

[tenhead]

Apple Pay had spoiled me. When I go to a market or store that don't use Apple pay and always ask to see my id when I use my credit card is annoying. The most annoying is when the cashier had to hold my credit card (this happened at Ikea); is this even legal? Are they allowed to hold your credit card to check your name with your id?

 

[tmiw]

I love community businesses, because they give competition to the national ones, but I find it hard to deal with them sometimes. My haircut is $5, compared to $12 at SUPERCUTS, but give me a break about inconveniencing your loyal customers to save 15 cents per transaction.

I have a theory that I've posted before about how American businesses are actually pretty resentful of the fact that card acceptance is almost mandatory, even if card acceptance does have tangible benefits for them. Therefore anything that makes card use easier (e.g. Apple Pay) should be fought against and resisted, while anything that makes card use painful without turning away customers should be encouraged.

That's partly why retailers aren't really fighting the migration to chip/EMV--EMV makes card use more painful because it can take multiple seconds or longer to run a transaction vs. swiping. It's also why I think a fair number of retailers won't turn on NFC at the same time they turn on chip, at least initially. If they can steer some people towards alternatives they control (whether that's CurrentC or a similar app, magstripe only store cards or even cash), then it's a success.

But it's totally possible that I'm at least partly wrong and that NFC acceptance will dramatically spike in a couple of months too. We'll see.

 

[macnewbie91]

I have a theory that I've posted before about how American businesses are actually pretty resentful of the fact that card acceptance is almost mandatory, even if card acceptance does have tangible benefits for them. Therefore anything that makes card use easier (e.g. Apple Pay) should be fought against and resisted, while anything that makes card use painful without turning away customers should be encouraged.

That's partly why retailers aren't really fighting the migration to chip/EMV--EMV makes card use more painful because it can take multiple seconds or longer to run a transaction vs. swiping. It's also why I think a fair number of retailers won't turn on NFC at the same time they turn on chip, at least initially. If they can steer some people towards alternatives they control (whether that's CurrentC or a similar app, magstripe only store cards or even cash), then it's a success.

But it's totally possible that I'm at least partly wrong and that NFC acceptance will dramatically spike in a couple of months too. We'll see.

I would tell the business owner to her face that is sucks for her if she doesn't want to accept credit cards. I guess I received a free hair cut, I'll think about going to the ATM and coming back later with cash to pay the bill & tip.

 

[tmiw]

I would tell the business owner to her face that is sucks for her if she doesn't want to accept credit cards. I guess I received a free hair cut, I'll think about going to the ATM and coming back later with cash to pay the bill & tip.

Except that's a pretty dick move if the business told you in advance that they were cash only.

Also, another thing is that business won a huge victory against (credit) card use with the Dodd-Frank legislation because they now have the right to surcharge and set minimums. If it was solely about the fees they could have just universally instituted one or both and been done with it. That's not enough for them though--they don't want people using anything with a Visa or MasterCard logo period.

I just find all of this to be strange because we'd all probably go back to using checks for larger purchases, with all of the disadvantages those have (long lines, the store not immediately getting their money, no guarantee they'll even get their money, etc.)

 

[Rigby]

Without the TouchID or tokenization that Apple Pay includes. Both important features that actually make it "work" for me.

Yes, but both tokenization and device-based authentication (CDCVM) are based on existing EMV standards. Apple didn't invent anything new in that regard, they just implemented it well (including well-defined interfaces for simple card provisioning by the banks).

 

[macnewbie91]

Except that's a pretty dick move if the business told you in advance that they were cash only.

Also, another thing is that business won a huge victory against (credit) card use with the Dodd-Frank legislation because they now have the right to surcharge and set minimums*. If it was solely about the fees they could have just universally instituted one or both and been done with it. That's not enough for them though--they don't want people using anything with a Visa or MasterCard logo period.

I just find all of this to be strange because we'd all probably go back to using checks for larger purchases, with all of the disadvantages those have (long lines, the store not immediately getting their money, no guarantee they'll even get their money, etc.)

Nobody tells you that they're cash only, unless they put a sign somewhere you normally wouldn't look anyways. The norm today is to walk into a business and be able to use a credit or debit card. It's a dick (and cheap) move for them not to accept the most common payment form out there today. If they don't want customers to be dicks to them, they shouldn't be a dick business owner that's behind the times.

Absolutely great point about the checks. I agree with you there. Don't want to take a card? Sure I'll slow down the production of your business and write you a check. Don't want to take those either? You're not getting squat from me.

*FYI in New York State, they aren't allowed to set a surcharge on credit and debit cards, however the minimum (I believe) is $5 or $10. I live in NY and I've never had to pay a surcharge for a credit card unless it went through Western Union, but they charge a fee for the service and send the payment to the company you're paying, so that doesn't count.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

I have the answer but it'll be censored.

Mrs. Thequik came up with "not pretty"

 

[tmiw]

Nobody tells you that they're cash only, unless they put a sign somewhere you normally wouldn't look anyways.

The places around here that are cash only put signs in multiple places, including at the register where it's plainly visible. One place has something like four signs saying such; if you still don't get the message that they don't take cards, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[balamw]

Some business prefer to remain "cash only" as it makes it easier to not report their income to the relevant authorities. Many barbers at independent barber shops are independent contractors and basically get paid under the table.

B

 

[iGeek2014]

There are also downsides of that too. For example, the unfortunate limitation of £20 in the UK for all contactless payments, even for Apple Pay. A bit more time is always good to make sure there aren't quirks like that preventing the best possible experience.

One upside is the increase to £30 during next month.

Later on in the year Boots are going 'limitless' on Apple Pay transactions and I've seen instances on here where people have used a qualifying iPhone/Watch in an Apple Store for amounts well above the £20 limit.

 

[gijoeinla]

??? I agree with pretty much everything you said but why exactly did you write this in reply to my post? I never said I expected Apple pay to be an instant hit in US. If you look at my posts I've often said the opposite. I know that such things take time. NFC took a number of years to become ubiquitous in Canada mostly because of merchants inertia.
Anyway, all I said here is that I want Apple to get a move on with international deployment of Apple Pay in general and in Canada in particular. So far a year after its introduction in US they've only managed to roll it out in 1(!) other country. that's not a good pace no matter how you slice it especially given wide NFC penetration outside US.

But what I don't get is that you seem to imply Apple should somehow single handedly *make* all retailers adopt *their* payment system just because. I mean while I'm clearly in Apples court, I can totally see why ANY merchant held back to see when other CEM's would roll out their services and THEN convert their terminals and systems to accept EVERYBODY's payment method -- therefore NOT alienating ANY customer who may, may not be a Apple iPhone owner. That's my point - hence the slower adoption of contactless payment acceptance.

Apple is doing NOTHING wrong. Their system is nearly a year on the market and so far, so far it's been pretty smooth in terms of it's roll out. Since it involves MONEY and peoples access to it -- isn't it SMARTER for APPLE to cool it's jets before really really pushing Apply Pay till they have TIME under their belt that the system has PROVEN itself secure -- or in todays world "semi secure"... I say semi because I don't believe ANYTHING made by ANYBODY is totally full proof.

As a stockholder, Apple showing some marketing restraint is doing it's do diligence - with respect to Apple Pay...

As I said -- once Square starts accepting it - the game will really begin to tilt. Yes Square. Depending on where you live its a pretty big and growing payment processing business -- at least here in the Southern California market.

Btw -- Open Table just recently added Apple Pay to certain restaurants in Los Angeles. So booking a reservation thru the app allow you to pay with Apple Pay! Pretty cool feature I'd say.

 

[neutralguy]

I really love using Apple Pay on my AW.

Yup! Instead of just taking the card out and swipe, it's much easy to buy a 500$ phone and 400$ watch to perform the same functionality

 

[macnewbie91]

Yup! Instead of just taking the card out and swipe, it's much easy to buy a 500$ phone and 400$ watch to perform the same functionality

Must be you're ignorant to the technology. Everyone else will carry on and ignore you from this point on.

 

[bgraham]

I'm not sure when you were picked to be the arbiter of what selling your data implies, but your view is pretty skewed. Google does, in fact sell my data. My browsing habits are my data. Whether you consider it an invasion of your privacy is your business, but don't presume to tell me when I have been violated.

And your description of the 20 pound sledgehammer that is Google's "directed ad targeting" is laughable. If I look at a wax toilet seal on Home Depot's web site I don't consider it "directed ad targeting" when I get blasted with ads from Home Depot, Kohler, and every other company closely related to plumbing on practically every web site I go to for the next 4 weeks.

Far inferior services? Make me laugh. Remember that you're talking to someone who uses both, and has used both for quite some time. Yes Apple has a bunch of my data. And I sleep well at night knowing they do. Because I know they protect it voraciously, instead of putting it up to the highest bidder. That alone makes their services far superior, in fact.

If you find the value of Google's services worth their provision of your data to third parties you're not even aware of, go for it. But don't insult my intelligence by trying to state that they don't sell my data. Objectively, they do.

Calling it selling if you want - but home depot themselves, in that example, don't know a thing about you. They pay Google to show ads to users like you who'll be interested in that. You haven't been violated in any way, just targeted by an algorithm. And remember, all of this is entirely voluntary. You can turn off search, web, app, location history and turn off ad tracking altogether if you want.

I use Apple's hardware so do often try out their services but can safely say YouTube, Play Music, Search, Maps, Drive, Gmail, Photos are all far superior to Apple's alternatives in every way (and many more that are arguable). Google's ecosystem just seems better in every way to me. But, I doubt I'm going to change your mind.