Apple Delays Debut of AR/VR Headset Until June

[JoshNori]

I don’t know if it’s such a great idea to presume you have the right opinion.

OP: “Who cares how much this costs? I have zero issue with the price.”

Hence: Stop Being Poor

 

[ponzicoinbro]

Hence: Stop Being Poor

Don't gas light people or mock people's finances, otherwise you'll sound like a deranged crypto scammer.

We need to highlight the toxic behaviour of some VR fans. We see it almost every time whenever there is a thread. That's why the VR platforms have also been highlighted as places were trolls and pervs have been a problem.

People want to live with a ski mask on their face in their 3D fantasy hentai world. Fine.

Just don't bully people who just don't care.

 

[tookitogo]

It'll do everything you do today on your 2D screen, but faster, thanks to its input methods like eyes tracking (as a pointer) and (virtually limitless) hand gestures.

I’m going to guess that you haven’t actually worked in UX, or you’d know that gestures have pretty low usability, since they require too much memorization. Well that and fatigue. Heck, even touch screens (especially vertically mounted ones) get so tiring to use that there’s an industry term for it: gorilla arm.
Those immersive gesture-based interfaces you see in Hollywood movies are fiction, and will stay there because they’re entirely impractical in real life.
The closest thing to a real-world application for immersive VR interfaces is VR-based flight simulators, where you reach out an interact with aircraft controls where they would be in the real aircraft. I say “closest” and not “actual” because even there, you’re not interacting with a separate user interface.

As for eye tracking: this, too, is established technology, and of little use for mainstream user interfaces. There’s real value in being able to look at something without pointing at it.

 

[purplerainpurplerain]

I’m going to guess that you haven’t actually worked in UX, or you’d know that gestures have pretty low usability, since they require too much memorization. Well that and fatigue. Heck, even touch screens (especially vertically mounted ones) get so tiring to use that there’s an industry term for it: gorilla arm.
Those immersive gesture-based interfaces you see in Hollywood movies are fiction, and will stay there because they’re entirely impractical in real life.
The closest thing to a real-world application for immersive VR interfaces is VR-based flight simulators, where you reach out an interact with aircraft controls where they would be in the real aircraft. I say “closest” and not “actual” because even there, you’re not interacting with a separate user interface.

As for eye tracking: this, too, is established technology, and of little use for mainstream user interfaces. There’s real value in being able to look at something without pointing at it.

These people don’t listen. They saw something in a movie and think everything just works easily in real life.

 

[Le0M]

I’m going to guess that you haven’t actually worked in UX, or you’d know that gestures have pretty low usability, since they require too much memorization. Well that and fatigue. Heck, even touch screens (especially vertically mounted ones) get so tiring to use that there’s an industry term for it: gorilla arm.
Those immersive gesture-based interfaces you see in Hollywood movies are fiction, and will stay there because they’re entirely impractical in real life.
The closest thing to a real-world application for immersive VR interfaces is VR-based flight simulators, where you reach out an interact with aircraft controls where they would be in the real aircraft. I say “closest” and not “actual” because even there, you’re not interacting with a separate user interface.

As for eye tracking: this, too, is established technology, and of little use for mainstream user interfaces. There’s real value in being able to look at something without pointing at it.

But you based your entire argument on existing UX. What I'm saying is that Apple (hopefully) will come out with a much better UX, and THAT is what it'll set its headset apart from competition.

 

[JoshNori]

Don't gas light people or mock people's finances, otherwise you'll sound like a deranged crypto scammer.

We need to highlight the toxic behaviour of some VR fans. We see it almost every time whenever there is a thread. That's why the VR platforms have also been highlighted as places were trolls and pervs have been a problem.

People want to live with a ski mask on their face in their 3D fantasy hentai world. Fine.

Just don't bully people who just don't care.

Dear God. Maybe you should read the actual context of my post before getting triggered and gaslighting yourself into being outraged, crying, and reporting me. It was a reply in reference to someone else’s post.

😭 The VR FANS 😭

 

[ponzicoinbro]

Dear God. Maybe you should read the actual context of my post before getting triggered and gaslighting yourself into being outraged, crying, and reporting me. It was a reply in reference to someone else’s post.

😭 The VR FANS 😭

Don't be so triggered.

I didn't report you and the only tears I shed are tears of laughter.

 

[JoshNori]

Don't be so triggered.

I didn't report you and the only tears I shed are tears of laughter.

Go away. You didn’t even see the initial post. People on here love to argue over nothing. It’s an opinion forum. I thought the person I was replying to was being out of touch discussing the price point they could afford/be willing to pay but that it was ridiculous to consider price some negligent factor based on wording. So I posted the meme as a comparison. Way to make me explain an aside that I’m really not that attached to. Point is: price is an issue, which ironically, is the original point you were making to ME. So we were agreeing while you go throwing around the word gaslight. K? That’s what’s up. Bye for now.

Sometimes the things I say here are popular, other times not. I’m not here to conform to some rosy opinion so I can give MacRumors good SEO and cater to Apple’s flaws like a fanboy. They’re both evil, awesome, and mediocre at the same time depending on the decision. It is what it is.

 

[Stalonium]

$700 wheels are an accessory to a $7000 computer and the $1000 stand is an accessory to a $5000 monitor. And both the Mac Pro and the XDR Pro Display are niche/statement products that account probably for 0,1% of Apple's revenue, if not less.

When the iPhone was released, Apple had to reduce the price by $200 because it was more expensive that most smartphones.

When the iPad was released, it was relatively cheap (cheaper than the iPhone and less than half the price of the cheapest Mac).

When the Apple Watch was released, it was priced quite low to be honest, a bit more expensive than Garmin and Fitbit top smartwatches.

If Apple's AR/VR headset is intended to be the next big thing and as technology of the future, it cannot be priced at 3,000$. It just can't!

Well I'm not saying it should or will cost that much, I personally think its gonna be probably closer to how the Quest Pro is priced.

My point was that I wouldn't really be surprised if they did end up making it super expensive at the start And a higher than expected price would surprise me a lot less than an unexpectedly low price.

But I guess for somebody who thinks $700 computer wheels and $1000 monitor stands are reasonable any price would be cheap for the Apple headset

 

[ponzicoinbro]

Go away. You didn’t even see the initial post. People on here love to argue over nothing. It’s an opinion forum. I thought the person I was replying to was being out of touch discussing the price point they could afford/be willing to pay but that it was ridiculous to consider price some negligent factor based on wording. So I posted the meme as a comparison. Way to make me explain an aside that I’m really not that attached to. Point is: price is an issue, which ironically, is the original point you were making to ME. So we were agreeing while you go throwing around the word gaslight. K? That’s what’s up. Bye for now.

Sometimes the things I say here are popular, other times not. I’m not here to conform to some rosy opinion so I can give MacRumors good SEO and cater to Apple’s flaws like a fanboy. They’re both evil, awesome, and mediocre at the same time depending on the decision. It is what it is.

Yeah spending too much time in VR is really bad.

 

[enterthemerdaverse]

PLOP PLOP PLOP

Same old thing and will never change.

These are unsolvable problems because we are meat and bone people living in a mud, brick and wood world. We are not The Sims.

Pushing Buttons: The PlayStation VR 2 might be the next big thing, if you can handle the nausea – and the cost

In this week’s newsletter: Though costly, the PSVR2 is the most usable virtual gaming device yet – even for sceptics like me

www.theguardian.com

The thing is, no matter how good a VR thing is, I just don’t want to play in VR. I don’t like being unable to see what’s happening around me when I’m playing a game, because I have two small children and a cat, and in the 10 minutes I spend playing Gran Turismo in VR, the entire house could be collapsing around me.

Also – and six-plus years of using VR headsets has not changed this – it makes me feel sick. After about 20 minutes, sensory overwhelm kicks in and I get a headache and feel nauseous. I suffer from motion sickness – if I look at my phone in the car I risk throwing up. Although this isn’t a problem that affects everyone, it affects enough people (between 40% and 70%) to make VR a tricky proposition as a mainstream technology. Studies have also found that it affects women more than men, partly because, as this researcher suggests, VR headsets were designed by and for men.

Years ago, when I wrote about the first wave of VR headsets, a well-meaning reader outlined all of the things I might do to alleviate my discomfort, including taking travel sickness pills, building up my tolerance with incrementally longer sessions and blowing a fan in my face. Sound advice, perhaps, but if I have to medicate myself and spend weeks acclimatising myself to be able to use VR without wanting to vomit, I might reasonably ask myself whether it’s worth it.

Most of the practical annoyances of early VR are gone now – all of the cables, the fiddly setup, the awkward controls, the heavy headsets. The lightweight, cable-free Meta Quest 2 and high-end PlayStation VR 2 headsets offer us an experience that’s about as good as in-home VR’s ever going to get, for the foreseeable future. The fact that I still don’t particularly want to use it raises questions for me about this technology’s viability outside of its niche. VR is novel, and thrilling for short periods, but like 3D cinema, it’s inessential. Long-term readers will know that I’m no fan of big tech’s conception of the metaverse, which is informed entirely by capitalist greed and not at all by what actual people want; I am sceptical of companies like Meta trying to persuade us that we need VR in our lives. It is a technological solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

 

[Jensend]

As for eye tracking: this, too, is established technology,

What do you mean by this? Can I get an eye tracking system that works with my multi-monitor setup and is accurate enough to know which button or text field I am looking at, at a high rate of success, across any of my monitors, with minimal setup?

and of little use for mainstream user interfaces. There’s real value in being able to look at something without pointing at it.

You’d still be able to look at something without “pointing at it”. You’d have to press a key or make a gesture (maybe tapping your thumb and forefinger) to make a selection. The hand tracking should be good enough that I can have my hand on my lap while I do this, so I wouldn't need to worry about gorilla arm.

The use for mainstream user interfaces is that I can select elements on a screen without taking my hands off the keyboard.

PLOP PLOP PLOP

Same old thing and will never change.

These are unsolvable problems because we are meat and bone people living in a mud, brick and wood world. We are not The Sims.

Pushing Buttons: The PlayStation VR 2 might be the next big thing, if you can handle the nausea – and the cost

In this week’s newsletter: Though costly, the PSVR2 is the most usable virtual gaming device yet – even for sceptics like me

www.theguardian.com

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like uh, her opinion, man.

I agree that motion sickness isn't really a solvable problem for some subset of people in some subset of VR experiences. A few VR games will give me motion sickness if I play them. I get motion sickness if I try to read in a car on average city streets, or even looking out the window on a curvier road.

But there are plenty of great VR uses that don't require the kind of artificial locomotion that causes motion sickness, especially as you move beyond gaming uses.

I don’t like being unable to see what’s happening around me when I’m playing a game, because I have two small children and a cat, and in the 10 minutes I spend playing Gran Turismo in VR, the entire house could be collapsing around me.

No doubt that that is a concern as well. But there will be better options for mixed reality/AR in the future, where you can customize how much of the real world you can see. And its probably not that great of an idea to play a highly engrossing game on a flat screen when you have small children around either.
Also, cockpit simulation games—like Gran Turismo and the "space dogfighting sim" she mentions earlier—are among the worst for inducing motion sickness. I can play some intense games in VR, but put me in even a slow moving car with smooth rotation I instantly start feeling nauseous.

VR is novel, and thrilling for short periods, but like 3D cinema, it’s inessential.

2D cinema is inessential.

Over the years, very few VR games have been worth playing.

I've found many VR games worth playing. True, I find a vastly greater number of flat screen games worth playing, but a lot of that is due to the fact that there are more flat screen games, because more developers are working on them and more publishers are pushing money at flat screen games. Understandable, because there's a much bigger potential audience, and tools and conventions are much more mature.

Now, it may very well be that when the possibilities of VR/AR are more fully explored, most people still won't be interested, even after many of the current downsides are mitigated. Apple obviously believes there's a good chance that won't be the case.

 

[filmantopia]

How do you imagine this "low-cost" version? The core elements that make an AR/VR headset great is the quality of the displays, latency, sensors, overall performance and connectivity. Apple can't just cut corners on the hardware and release a downgraded version as they do with the iPhone, the Apple Watch, the iPad, without significant sacrifice in overall experience.

“Low cost” is relative. It’ll just be a version with fewer of the features required for advanced work like pro content creation. What that specifically means, I don’t know. What I do know is that the rumors have been stating that this is the pipeline.

 

[filmantopia]

I think you're right on almost everything, in fact I've been saying this for years.
On one thing I differ in thinking: Apple will release an OS that will already let users deal with daily work stuff, as in, creating an awesome UI for the desktop and some simple but most used apps like safari, notes, conferencing, the iLife suite (pages, numbers, keynote), and a few more. This way Apple won't rely solely on devs to make people go crazy for the headset, but it'll already be usable in many circumstances.

I completely agree. I just think that with a product in this price range, Apple will want to have a stronger answer for the question of why people will “need” this product, with some unique use cases that call for not just third party software, but content (like, say, partnerships with sports networks or movie studios, etc.). But of course it ought to, and will be a compelling UI, I think, just for regular computing tasks even without this stuff.

 

[ponzicoinbro]

What do you mean by this? Can I get an eye tracking system that works with my multi-monitor setup and is accurate enough to know which button or text field I am looking at, at a high rate of success, across any of my monitors, with minimal setup?

Probably not.

We can't even get a basic mouse controlled GUI on any OS without bugs and random slow downs.