Misinformation is abound certainly. What makes this topic stand out for you? Is there some part of the misinformation that especially seems problematic? Corporate rights, individual right, child protection?
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Apple Delays Rollout of Controversial Child Safety Features to Make Improvements
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This is hilarious.
You're not that important! Plus your buddies would have already been flagged if it's on their computer!!!
Come on, when I was that age, when I was told not to do something, I’d just do it on the sly.
But there is a difference between playing say GTA 3 when your parents say you shouldn’t, and sending sexting pics of yourself.
At 10, you may not realize the true ramification of doing that.
All the feature is, to me, is a way for parents to keep an eye on their kids. It starts to build trust between parent and child, but gives the kid a gentle reminder that, if they start sharing images that maybe deemed “too far”, their parent will get an insight into what they are doing.
Basiclly it’s a, do you think your parents would be okay with what your doing right now.
I’m 100% against the CSAM on iCloud photo though. What I do online should not be accessible to anyone but me.
This is the problem with any system where you are assumed guilty until you are proven innocent. It opens up for abuses. Apple putting such scanning mechanism into all iPhones worldwide by the basis of child safety means that Apple assumes all iPhone and Mac users are potential predators. And so far Apple has not said anything about due process, appeal process, nor the consequences of scenarios like you mentioned. They even went as far as using hashes so they created plausible deniability for themselves. Basically if something happened, Apple just claimed ignorance since "we are only matching hashes." A private company turns into moral police and judge without checks and balances.
It sends a truly chilling message, especially to people living in countries with extreme moral laws.
Do you test your food for poison with a silver needle before eating either?
All these “what if someone I know deliberately uploads child porn to my device?” scenarios sound more like undue concern trolling, as if child porn is so easy to come by and everyone around you is waiting to backstab you like an episode of game of thrones.
You keep bringing this up but the truth is only apple has the answer to that question. Asking us isn’t going to help you find it.
not only to that but the same thing can be done if the scanning happens in the cloud. If someone puts those images on your phone (30 of them) then you’re caught. Also, I think it would be even easier to frame someone if the scanning happens in the cloud because then all you’d need is to log into their iCloud account and upload them via the web browser.Do you test your food for poison with a silver needle before eating either?
All these “what if someone I know deliberately uploads child porn to my device?” scenarios sound more like undue concern trolling, as if child porn is so easy to come by and everyone around you is waiting to backstab you like an episode of game of thrones.
And Apple isn’t the only company scanning for CSAM; google does it even more aggressively. If this were a genuine issue, we would have heard of more people being “busted” this way from people uploading such images to their google drive account, and it doesn’t even need to be Apple devices.
Like I said - just a whole load of concern trolling.
One company never marketed user privacy, the other did.
First off, how do you know he's not that important? And second, if people "swat" each other on Twitch, then his concerns are more than valid imo.
IMO, vigilant, loving parents don't even give their prepubescent children a smartphone. If someone's giving their kids a poison pill, it's just that--a poison pill. There is no way to mitigate the poison. There is no way to protect the kid from ingesting it. It doesn't matter what you do, they're going to get around any frivolous safety features you try to implement. When it comes to this, you can't have your cake and eating it too. Either you protect your kids by not handing them the poison, or you hand it to them and deal with the eventual consequences... whatever that may be.
Hopefully this is a precursor to dropping the whole thing and never talking about it again. But it shows that pressure works. Keep it up
Wow, so much just in the first 2 pages and it's almost up to 30 pages already!
It's called "The Tyranny of Only Two Ideas".
Here's an example:
"Well, I have to come up with $30,000 by Friday or we lose the farm!" (basically the plot behind every "Dukes of Hazzard" episode ever broadcast)
Here's another example:
"If you're not with me, then you're against me."
Here's another example:
"I like waffles!"
"Why do you hate pancakes so much?"
You've just given a great 4th example:
"I don't want anybody to have their right to Due Process taken away."
"Then you support pedos and rapists."
Please don't succumb to the Tyranny of (only) two choices. You're smarter than that, right? You do realize that there are ALWAYS more choices than just the two that you've given, ESPECIALLY in your example.
And as to making the launch happen without bad press? I'm actually fine with that.
I don't care if the reasons for stopping it is that Apple is afraid of missing sales numbers, if that's what it takes for the right thing to happen, then I'm good with it!
Oh and I'd like to get that U2 album cover out of my iPhone. Wouldn't it be tragic if that album cover got flagged as kiddie porn all because of a hash?
And it turns out that yes, A Samsung WILL fit right into my music studio as well as an iPad.
Apple has about 4 weeks to kill this iSpy thing before I start ordering new PC parts.
Say it sister, say it loud and proud!
Do you like the idea of people being falsely accused of being child predators? Maybe it could be you. Or your wife or husband. Or one of your children. Because that's the possibility we're talking about here if this were to go through.
I don't know what a "quite" release is. Now if you're talking about a "quiet" release, that's possible. But woe be to the Apple person who approves such a move.
"Tim Apple"? I get it if you're trolling him, but most of the time your attempt at being cutsie distracts from what you're trying to communicate. In fact, it's so distracting in this case that it makes it impossible to tell if you're just mocking him or if you actually did send him an email.
There's a new term that's out now, and I don't even think it's in Wikipedia or the Urban Dictionary yet. But I'll fill you in.
It's called "The Tyranny of Only Two Ideas".
Here's an example:
"Well, I have to come up with $30,000 by Friday or we lose the farm!" (basically the plot behind every "Dukes of Hazzard" episode ever broadcast)
Here's another example:
"If you're not with me, then you're against me."
Here's another example:
"I like waffles!"
"Why do you hate pancakes so much?"
You've just given a great 4th example:
"I don't want anybody to have their right to Due Process taken away."
"Then you support pedos and rapists."
Please don't succumb to the Tyranny of (only) two choices. You're smarter than that, right? You do realize that there are ALWAYS more choices than just the two that you've given, ESPECIALLY in your example.
I love your passion, but this fight isn't over yet!They will end up CANCELLING IT. 🤫
It’s been a hot mess. Even good ol’ Craig (executive) admitted it. He knew Apple’s approach was wrong.
Craig Federighi Acknowledges Confusion Around Apple Child Safety Features and Explains New Details About Safeguards
Apple's senior vice president of software engineering, Craig Federighi, has today defended the company's controversial planned child safety...www.macrumors.com
"Screeching minority?" How do you even know it's a minority? Answer: You don't.
This would be the smart thing to do.
Again with the "screeching voices of the minority", really?
And as to making the launch happen without bad press? I'm actually fine with that.
I don't care if the reasons for stopping it is that Apple is afraid of missing sales numbers, if that's what it takes for the right thing to happen, then I'm good with it!Well played, and a great point to make!
Thank you for being willing to discuss it even if you have reservations.
I'm with you on that, and I too would like to cut ties with iCloud, especially for backups and for getting music into my iPhone.
Oh and I'd like to get that U2 album cover out of my iPhone. Wouldn't it be tragic if that album cover got flagged as kiddie porn all because of a hash?
Keep speaking. It's not over until the fat lady sings, and she's not even out of bed yet!
Thought crime; that's really where this goes, isn't it?
Yep, this is actually more insulting than Microsoft's talking paperclip from a few years back.
🙄 <---- this is my surprised face at the Congress being at the root of this.
LOL, for sure! Oh and maybe for governors of the state of New York, and certain Hollywood people for good measure.
You're not wrong. Some repairs are definitely needed. I mean really, within the span of 2 weeks, Apple pushed me from "ready to spend about $6,000 on a new MacBook Pro AND new iPad" to "ummm....it would cost me only about 30% if I just build another PC and will Samsung do everything that iPad will?"
And it turns out that yes, A Samsung WILL fit right into my music studio as well as an iPad.
Apple has about 4 weeks to kill this iSpy thing before I start ordering new PC parts.
That's why it's up to us to be on guard. Protecting your own rights is a full-time job. Well, if you live in a place that recognizes that you have rights.
No. I hope you don't have kids. If you require Apple to spy on your children in order for you to parent, then you already failed. But this isn't about our parenting skills so I'll leave it at that. There is also no point in discussing anything with you because you are dead set to think that anyone that opposes this equates to them being for Child Porn which is completely false and insulting. Having a discussion with some one that plugs their ears and goes la la la la is a waste of everyones time. If you are truly interested in understanding the big picture and why people are opposed to this, maybe go back and reread the comment section with an open mind, instead of responding with your childish personal attacks (ie. what wrong with you people, Hope you don't have kids, I hope my children never come into contact with you) which offers absolutely nothing to the discussion. Why not respond to our points and prove us wrong instead, but I'm sure you already knew that's how civil people debate because you are the only great parent on this forum.
But it doesn't work that way.
Nobody can guarantee that this would save "even one child".
But it definitely would raise the risk of false accusation and false imprisonment, especially if certain people figure out how to use this against you. You know, people such as your political enemies, business rivals, or hell, even some guy who is just jealous of you because you have a pretty wife.
Our Founding Fathers opposed that and made it very difficult to imprison somebody, and for good reason. If false accusation and false imprisonment were acceptable, then pretty much anybody could have their enemies jailed just by making a phone call. Or maybe in this case, sending you a photo from a burner email account.
Can you guarantee that you've never pissed anybody off in all your years of delaying gratification? All it takes is one, and then poor old Gene has some 'splaining to do.
Even if he hasn't done what he's being accused of. Good luck defending yourself against your enemies, and good luck paying those attorney fees!
I've certainly been eyeing the Galaxy Tab S7 (or S7+) myself, and I use my iPad Pro 12.9 quite a bit. And the Pixel 6 is just around the corner too...
Obviously child abusers aren't gonna put their filth on Apple devices when its known Apple will catch them. So what's this really all about? Slippery slope.
Apple has delayed the rollout of the Child Safety Features that it announced last month following negative feedback, the company has today announced
No. It may help law enforcement ARREST them, but without due process, including the service of a warrant signed by a judge, it might actually fail in NAILING them by putting them in jail.
Or, as I've said above, it will ensnare people who didn't do the crime, such as the guy in one of the earlier posts who said he received pictures of male "junk" because somebody transposed a couple of numbers on a text message.
I'm all for catching them and putting them away. But we have to do it right and we need to not be imprisoning innocent people, either accidentally or on purpose.
It’s not even a slippery slope anymore, it’s Apple jumping in head first. A slippery slope might suggest innocence and unintentional consequences. When experts already showed how bad this is, and Apple still being firm about it, it can be deduced that Apple had a full intention and commitment into this.
Experts already said that this won’t really do much for its advertised purpose. And yet a mass device scanning system will be in place. It’s a matter of using it for other purposes because “why not?”
Apple thinks we don’t understand. WRONG! We fully understand. You are whoring for law enforcement by unconstitutionally searching our devices WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT FROM THE COURT. That’s the bottom line regardless of their so-called good intentions “for the children”.
Well, of course there's due process... We're talking about good old-fashioned detective and forensic work here. Obviously it's not as simple as finding a few photos on somebody's iPhone.... It's everything that happens after this that's important.
The discovery and reporting of photos is generally enough to get a warrant signed by a judge to then carry on the rest of the due process. In the case that I was most directly familiar with (which I explained in another post earlier in this thread), the person working for me who was found guilty of possession of child pornography was arrested and charged only after the usual due process. A warrant was obtained as a result of a statement from a co-worker in his full-time job who had observed CSAM on his PDA. That was enough to get a judge to sign a warrant, at which point they searched his home and found a lot more, and the case proceeded from there.
I'm not privy to the details of the other investigations that resulted from this, but the detectives involved told me that the information they found as a result of this possession case was instrumental in getting an arrest and conviction for another local person who was actually creating CSAM — making videos of kids in his basement.
While that's a fair statement, I don't think Apple's proposed implementation of CSAM Detection is very likely to ensnare people who aren't actually collecting CSAM.
Firstly, it only runs against photos that are uploaded to iCloud Photo Library. It doesn't scan Messages at all, so nobody is going to get caught "accidentally" receiving CSAM. It also has a threshold (supposedly about 30 photos) before anybody even knows about the flagged photos.
I don't think anybody who has more than 30 photos of known CSAM in their Photos app can honestly claim that they got there "accidentally." Nothing gets added to your photo library unless you specifically add it — either by taking it with your iPhone camera or manually saving it in there from another app.
It's also fair to say that law enforcement is still going to need to follow due process — a CSAM report from Apple may be enough to get a search warrant (like it did in the case I mentioned above), but they're not going to go and arrest anybody on the basis of that alone. If the cops don't turn anything else up as a result of a warrant, it's going to be pretty hard to build a case. Chances are pretty good, however, that anybody who has 30+ images of known CSAM in their photo library probably has a lot more elsewhere...
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The chances of this happening are astronomically tiny. Less than 1 in 1 trillion a year per account according to Apple. At this stage we have to accept their numbers. People are getting freaked out (fair enough) and because of this are fearing the worst and creating a little bit of mass hysteria.
Good point. Unfortunately this is pretty much the entire USA in 2021.
It's not that hard to do.
Nice joke.
Moaning on a forum does jack all. Gotta contact Apple or a politician etc.
Absolutely.
Why wait. Just do it. This isn't going to change. Apple aren't doing this for tin foil hat reasons. It's about optics. So I recommend you to do it if you feel so strongly about it.
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I spent $2000 on a new Linux laptop because of this. Bye bye Apple!
