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Apple Deliberately Holding Back on Mobile Payment System
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Actually, NFC dos not really belong on credit cards. That's where the security risk is the greatest, because credit cards are dumb tags, without any security controls. On a phone (referencing Google Wallet), you not only control when and for how long the NFC signal is broadcast, but the phone keeps a record of the transaction, the data is encrypted, and no physical evidence of account numbers is exposed during the transaction (as it could be by bringing out a card to wave over the sensor). This means that it is significantly harder to steal financial over NFC from a phone than it is from a card.
People typically complain about how slow apple goes, but when you actually implement it, its by far the best method.
Not always true, but I'll take the copy and paste example. Even though it's slower than they want, they have to make a user friendly system that Grandma can understand. And more important, what happens, when you LOSE YOUR PHONE. If mobile payments takes off, your phone became a hot commodity.
Not always true, but I'll take the copy and paste example. Even though it's slower than they want, they have to make a user friendly system that Grandma can understand. And more important, what happens, when you LOSE YOUR PHONE. If mobile payments takes off, your phone became a hot commodity.
Okay, it belongs on a one time use Fedex box with security by obscurity and time sensitivity.
WiFi and Bluetooth are the wrong wireless technologies for NFC contactless payments. Neither was created for short-distance secure payments.
In fact, the longer range of WiFi and Bluetooth are security risks. NFC contactless payment systems are typically limited in range, like 1-6 inches. If you wave a Clipper Card (the SF Bay Area's NFC transit card) above a sensor, it will register if it's one or two inches away, but not if you do it six inches away.
Moreover, NFC contactless payment systems are designed so the client chip doesn't require power. Even if you had a wallet-phone with power, the system still needs to accommodate users that have unpowered chips (like on cards). That's how the wallet-phones became popular in Japan, because the phones would still work on the same system as unpowered transit cards. Plus, if your battery died, you'd still want some minimal transactional support, just like an NFC-chipped card.
mevensen lists some of the downfalls of having NFC chipped credit cards. NFC chipped cards/devices make more sense (from a security standpoint) when the payment credentials are not in a human legible form. Realistically, today's credit card users should be able to request a card that doesn't have the numbers imprinted on the front (for security purposes).
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What I foresee is a mobile payment system that ties into passbook. I walk into the grocery store, the phone automatically knows where I am and pills up the appropriate discount card, and would use the card I assign for grocery use. gas stations? different card used for fuel. I don't use multiple cards, but I know of some people who do.
I don't know why people keep comparing Japan and South Korea to the United States and other countries. You do realize that the United States has more than 20 times the land mass of Japan and South Korea combined, right? It's much harder to push and distribute new technologies across the country to replace old ones because of how widespread the country is. For example, look how slow the roll-out of 4G LTE is taking. Rolling 4G LTE across even California would take longer than rolling out 4G LTE across the whole country of South Korea.
Not only that, if Apple were to include it in the iPhone, they'd have to negotiate installing NFC-receiving devices in all the countries the iPhone is available or else people would be complaining about the new iPhone's NFC being useless in their country.
Sources:
U.S. Land Mass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States
California Land Mass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California
Japan Land Mass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan
South Korea Land Mass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea
Not only that, if Apple were to include it in the iPhone, they'd have to negotiate installing NFC-receiving devices in all the countries the iPhone is available or else people would be complaining about the new iPhone's NFC being useless in their country.
Sources:
U.S. Land Mass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States
California Land Mass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California
Japan Land Mass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan
South Korea Land Mass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea
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Apple's moving slowly b/c they are waiting for the patent office to grant them a broad non-specific patent for electronic payment using a non-specific chip in non-specific venues then they'll turn around claim to have invented NFC and sue everyone and try to get devices banned.
It's the apple way.
It's the apple way.
Being innovative doesn't mean you corner every area of every market. There are many things, such as security, that can go wrong. Financial institutions and payment services companies require rigorous backup, security, and other infrastructure; many are also subject to increased federal scrutiny. There are ways to be innovative in this area, but the ability to establish and garner support for this system around the globe is far more involved then hashing out details with media companies. Apple is better off letting other companies spend the money on establishing the payment infrastructure (every store would have to have a reader for instance) and then coming along to clean up by integrating the feature into the iOS ecosystem--whether via buyout or otherwise.
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Don't forget, camera, video recorder, gps.
I'll wait for the iPhone 6 with site-to-site transport built in
But seriously the number if things a smart phone has to do, we're lucky it's lasts 24h between charges.
Range and security are different layers. Should we insist folk hook to a 30 PIN CONNECTOR OR MICRO-USB connector to send a payment? Nope. (But it's okay to implement today and widespread technology for massive tomorrow commerce) Security over wireless sufficient for banking exists now over wifi and Bluetooth and xG cell.
Lancer said:
So why don't we have a BTO 72+ hour option?
I'll take 2-4mm thicker!! And proportionately more mass.
Rocketman
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What does that even mean?
Is that supposed to somehow describe the Nexus S 4G?
The security has nothing to do with obscurity. The security is based on very good practices of user control, passcodes, tracking and encryption.
I think I might have an idea on how they plan to enter this market: 30% cut for every payment made for apple. It's only fair isn't it?
And it will complete the circle so that most everything we do or buy will have an apple cut, music, movies, apps 30%, books 30%, magazines 30%, newspapers 30%, let there remain nothing in the world where apple don't have a 30% cut on!!!!!!
30% cut on everything for the apple overlords residing on the apple spaceship FTW!!
iDodgeEUTaxesViaLuxembourg
And it will complete the circle so that most everything we do or buy will have an apple cut, music, movies, apps 30%, books 30%, magazines 30%, newspapers 30%, let there remain nothing in the world where apple don't have a 30% cut on!!!!!!
30% cut on everything for the apple overlords residing on the apple spaceship FTW!!
iCash
iDodgeEUTaxesViaLuxembourg
Ok Apple.
I'll keep happily using my Galaxy Nexus to buy stuff. It always causes a scene and lots of questions which I'm okay with. It's kinda fun to use and came in especially handy the other day when I forgot my wallet (true story).
It has a place for sure and sadly Apple is acting all "higher" than NFC payments now. I don't quite understand the arrogance here...
And for the people saying "BUT SECURITY!!1" Google Wallet requires a pin, just like my debit card. Simple, really. And yes it's faster and easier to use than a debit card. No more fumbling with a wallet (or purse, which would be worse). You guys are missing out.
But of course Apple will invent mobile NFC payments and the world will go ape ****. Just how it goes I guess. It feels good using a GNEX, the phone they tried to ban, with NFC mobile payments. Really good. (not happy with Apple right now)
Also, lol at "battery life" concerns. Really Apple?
I'll keep happily using my Galaxy Nexus to buy stuff. It always causes a scene and lots of questions which I'm okay with. It's kinda fun to use and came in especially handy the other day when I forgot my wallet (true story).
It has a place for sure and sadly Apple is acting all "higher" than NFC payments now. I don't quite understand the arrogance here...
And for the people saying "BUT SECURITY!!1" Google Wallet requires a pin, just like my debit card. Simple, really. And yes it's faster and easier to use than a debit card. No more fumbling with a wallet (or purse, which would be worse). You guys are missing out.
But of course Apple will invent mobile NFC payments and the world will go ape ****. Just how it goes I guess. It feels good using a GNEX, the phone they tried to ban, with NFC mobile payments. Really good. (not happy with Apple right now)
Also, lol at "battery life" concerns. Really Apple?
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*COUGHTHUNDERBOLT*
Ahem. I'm sure Apple has its legitimate reasons, but waiting for critical mass or standards adoption has never held them back. If Apple is convinced of something awesome, they push it and push it before it's commonly used.
I was being serious that they might have been expecting a % cut here and what with the collusion debacle they 've started thinking it over a bit. I don't disagree with you btw, but I think you are missing out on a key element with your statement, if apple are convinced of something awesome where they can make boatloads of money they push and push. Awesomeness without a high profit margin for apple isn't something that really concerns them.
I don't disagree with you btw, but I think you are missing out on a key element with your statement, if apple are convinced of something awesome where they can make boatloads of money they push and push. Awesomeness without a high profit margin for apple isn't something that really concerns them.Nothing happens when you lose your phone, except you wipe it and move on. NFC on phones are protected by at least one PIN (two if you have an overall passcode on your phone). Could it be hacked? Probably, but if you lose your wallet, your cards are available, too, with less protection.
If you lose your wallet, the finder will go about his day using your cards as credit and signing John Doe while he drains your accounts. Most vendors do not pay any attention to the signature (if they even require it).
NFC on a phone is surprisingly more secure (as you stated, remote wipe, done).
Not so. A lot of people have email and/or sms notifications for charges to their credit cards, the moment said John Doe goes for a transaction you are notified and you block it.
People can hack anything these days though, hacking into disabling remote wipe should be a piece of cake for any crook worth their salt, I am sure hacking tools like that will be readily available in the underworld. Of course the notification scenario works here too, which only comes to prove that credit cards are not any less protected than nfc, if the ultimate means of protection is someone informing you quickly of illegal activity.
They got a hell of a lot of issues to solve to make nfc really secure. As the feds say anything on a network, assume it isn't secure.
I am one of those with an instant email once my card is charged more than .01 cent. I am also one of those people walking around with NFC enabled credit cards. And I am not getting one of those as seen on TV faraday cage wallets.
Risk is everywhere. It's the world we live in. I'm enjoying my Google Wallet world, personally. Livin' on the edge!
Also, NEAR Field Communication. If I see some shady dude 3" from my phone with some scanning device, it will be readily obvious he's trying to hack me. All I need to know. Lastly, I load up Google Wallet with a pre-determined amount (similar to a gift card). If it has $4.53 on it, then the hacker can enjoy a Big Mac on my behalf. Go nuts man.
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i think reaching in my pocket for my debit card is easier than reaching in my pocket for my phone.