Apple Demos Final Cut Pro X at NAB 2011

[CoryTV]

But these pros you speak of... it doesn't matter.. Being an editor doesn't mean knowing software. It's all about the aesthetics of montage. So whether they can turn on their computer or not, it doesn't matter. That's why productions hire Assistant Editors...

Yes, that was exactly my point. The people who know how to use the software are (sometimes) assistant editors, although I find the vast majority know how to do a few simple things, but do them well.. The original poster was implying you needed to be a hollywood film editor to judge technical capabilities, and I was saying they were the worst choice for just that reason.

The people who know the most about editing systems are the Sr. editors who work on heavy, effects based sequences that work in broadcast production environments (I'm not talking about me here). *They* are the ones who push systems to the limits and *they* are the ones who go to NAB. (They're still only 10% of that room)

I think that most of them will find that Apple has, at present abandoned them. That's not to say the industry won't shift, and there won't be enough 3rd party solutions out there, but they are throwing Avid a HUGE bone here.

FCP was making big inroads into broadcast, and they're throwing it away-- for today certainly.

Filmwise, could go either way, depending on the production. If it's got great RED/4k performance, "film" support isn't so important..

But for the indie crowd, they're really screwing them over, if they are abandoning Color. *THAT* is what shocked me. I'm also surprised that effects weren't more advanced. I couldn't see anything on a titling tool, but that's pretty imporant for Broadcast as well.. and *no* existing solution is good for that... They really had (have?) a chance to make that right, and it seems they don't care.

So, when I say "iMovie Pro" that isn't necessarily pejorative. This product is WAY, WAY, WAY more iMovie than FCP. That doesn't mean you can't cut "a real movie" on it. But for Broadcast TV, it's a real step down in a lot of ways-- at the very least not a step up.. The interface is very iMovie. They should have called it iMovie PRO, especially if they're getting rid of the rest of the FCS apps..

Now if it turns out this is just the tip of the iceberg-- then we really could be in for a treat.

 

[portishead]

My take: I think what I want from Final Cut Pro is to be a GREAT Editing application first. Color correction, titles, capture, output etc. is nice, but it is an editing app, and should first and foremost excel at that.

I think with FCPX this is a step in that direction. I don't expect it to be perfect, and fully mature yet, but with a few releases I believe it can get there.

A lot of people are asking where are the other apps. It's obvious these haven't been re-written yet. I'm guessing Apple will re-work these in the future also.

For now, I think (hope) FCPX will be the start of a really great editing application. I will reserve my opinion until I get to use it in action though.

 

[econgeek]

I don't understand the outrage at this announcement UNLESS this means Color, Motion etc are going to be 'dumbed down' and integrated as extras into FCPX. That will upset a lot of people.

Seems logical that the suite can remain separate applications-- or better yet-- the new FCPX supports more extensive plugins so that you don't have the issues of round tripping, and you can use Magic bullet or whoever wants to make a grading app inside of FCPX.

Likely this is the kind of thing that will be announced in more detail at WWDC when Apple is able to give developers the tools and training they need to plug into the new architecture.

 

[MacinDoc]

Yeah, I don't know about one click CC either. Color me skeptical. Although a lot of color adjustments are just minor, so theoretically, it could do a decent job.

Anyone doing complicated color work is going to need a dedicated app anyway. I don't think it's realistic to assume FCPX will ever be able to do this.

I don't understand the outrage at this announcement UNLESS this means Color, Motion etc are going to be 'dumbed down' and integrated as extras into FCPX. That will upset a lot of people.

Agreed, Color and Motion probably need to remain separate apps, although Apple may later market them as part of a suite. I don't think today's announcement has any bearing on the status of Color and Motion.

 

[kuwisdelu]

I don't claim to know anything at all about professional video editing. I only listened to the live feed. And I can say that the FCP pros at NAB sounded like teenage girls at a Justin Bieber concert.

So I'm going to assume it's good.

 

[MovieCutter]

You guys are all failing to realize that it's not the software that makes a great editor. This release gives us full time editors render capability that we've been wanting for years, multicore awareness, slick timeline editing capabilities, etc. It's not going to change our final product, just give us a slicker way to get there.

 

[econgeek]

Your quick denigration of Adobe shows how much you don't know about the industry

Obviously I know a lot more about it than you. Of course, there are multiple industries that use editing software... but that doesn't matter. You're just puffing out your chest and being snotty.

 

[SimD]

I'm out of this thread.

Avid/Final Cut bashing is useless. Both have their place in the industry. Heck, both are sometimes used together...

Same goes for Adobe. It has its uses.

No need to boast about one being better than the other. Coppola's editor uses Final Cut, the Coen Bros use Final Cut, Fincher's editor uses Final Cut. And a **** load of editors use Avid. Is one film better because of the editing software? Not in my eyes.

Anyway, the update looks promising. I'm excited.

Happy editing. Ciao.

 

[blue22]

Steve Jobs said the new version would be "awesome," well I disagree. He was completely wrong... IT IS FREAKIN' ASTOUNDING! Bravo Apple!

+1

Yes, this is a great update for FCP. And the $299 price tag makes it that much more "astounding" so I don't know why some people here are bemoaning this release.

 

[CoryTV]

and you can use Magic bullet or whoever wants to make a grading app inside of FCPX.

I can't even believe I was arguing with someone who things that magic bullet and Color are even remotely the same thing.

Goodnight, junior.

 

[portishead]

I think that most of them will find that Apple has, at present abandoned them. That's not to say the industry won't shift, and there won't be enough 3rd party solutions out there, but they are throwing Avid a HUGE bone here.

I don't think many people are going to feel this way.

FCP was making big inroads into broadcast, and they're throwing it away-- for today certainly.

How so?

Filmwise, could go either way, depending on the production. If it's got great RED/4k performance, "film" support isn't so important..

Avid is still probably better for film work, but it's hard to tell until we get our hands on FCPX.

But for the indie crowd, they're really screwing them over, if they are abandoning Color. *THAT* is what shocked me. I'm also surprised that effects weren't more advanced. I couldn't see anything on a titling tool, but that's pretty imporant for Broadcast as well.. and *no* existing solution is good for that... They really had (have?) a chance to make that right, and it seems they don't care.

You can use a separate app. Nobody has said anything about abandoning color. I'm sure there will be a title tool. It's probably not ready yet. This was a PREVIEW after all.

So, when I say "iMovie Pro" that isn't necessarily pejorative. This product is WAY, WAY, WAY more iMovie than FCP. That doesn't mean you can't cut "a real movie" on it. But for Broadcast TV, it's a real step down in a lot of ways-- at the very least not a step up.. The interface is very iMovie. They should have called it iMovie PRO, especially if they're getting rid of the rest of the FCS apps..

The app was re-written. Certainly features aren't going to carry over right away. Short term, there will be some drop off, but after a release or two, FCPX could grow into a nice app.

 

[Icaras]

$300! Makes me think Logic Studio X might be $199.

Amen! Bring on Logic X for said price and on the App store.

Exciting times indeed! I can't wait

 

[econgeek]

Yes, that was exactly my point. The people who know how to use the software are (sometimes) assistant editors, although I find the vast majority know how to do a few simple things, but do them well.. The original poster was implying you needed to be a hollywood film editor to judge technical capabilities, and I was saying they were the worst choice for just that reason.

The people who know the most about editing systems are the Sr. editors who work on heavy, effects based sequences that work in broadcast production environments (I'm not talking about me here). *They* are the ones who push systems to the limits and *they* are the ones who go to NAB. (They're still only 10% of that room)

I think that most of them will find that Apple has, at present abandoned them. That's not to say the industry won't shift, and there won't be enough 3rd party solutions out there, but they are throwing Avid a HUGE bone here.

FCP was making big inroads into broadcast, and they're throwing it away-- for today certainly.

Filmwise, could go either way, depending on the production. If it's got great RED/4k performance, "film" support isn't so important..

But for the indie crowd, they're really screwing them over, if they are abandoning Color. *THAT* is what shocked me. I'm also surprised that effects weren't more advanced. I couldn't see anything on a titling tool, but that's pretty imporant for Broadcast as well.. and *no* existing solution is good for that... They really had (have?) a chance to make that right, and it seems they don't care.

So, when I say "iMovie Pro" that isn't necessarily pejorative. This product is WAY, WAY, WAY more iMovie than FCP. That doesn't mean you can't cut "a real movie" on it. But for Broadcast TV, it's a real step down in a lot of ways-- at the very least not a step up.. The interface is very iMovie. They should have called it iMovie PRO, especially if they're getting rid of the rest of the FCS apps..

Now if it turns out this is just the tip of the iceberg-- then we really could be in for a treat.

You're assuming that if you didn't see a demo of it, it doesn't exist. iMovie has titling built in. They didn't demo titling this evening. Therefore, you're presuming this app has less titling than iMovie!

That seems pretty silly.

 

[portishead]

Seems logical that the suite can remain separate applications-- or better yet-- the new FCPX supports more extensive plugins so that you don't have the issues of round tripping, and you can use Magic bullet or whoever wants to make a grading app inside of FCPX.

Likely this is the kind of thing that will be announced in more detail at WWDC when Apple is able to give developers the tools and training they need to plug into the new architecture.

Exactly.

 

[MacinDoc]

Yes, that was exactly my point. The people who know how to use the software are (sometimes) assistant editors, although I find the vast majority know how to do a few simple things, but do them well.. The original poster was implying you needed to be a hollywood film editor to judge technical capabilities, and I was saying they were the worst choice for just that reason.

The people who know the most about editing systems are the Sr. editors who work on heavy, effects based sequences that work in broadcast production environments (I'm not talking about me here). *They* are the ones who push systems to the limits and *they* are the ones who go to NAB. (They're still only 10% of that room)

I think that most of them will find that Apple has, at present abandoned them. That's not to say the industry won't shift, and there won't be enough 3rd party solutions out there, but they are throwing Avid a HUGE bone here.

FCP was making big inroads into broadcast, and they're throwing it away-- for today certainly.

Filmwise, could go either way, depending on the production. If it's got great RED/4k performance, "film" support isn't so important..

But for the indie crowd, they're really screwing them over, if they are abandoning Color. *THAT* is what shocked me. I'm also surprised that effects weren't more advanced. I couldn't see anything on a titling tool, but that's pretty imporant for Broadcast as well.. and *no* existing solution is good for that... They really had (have?) a chance to make that right, and it seems they don't care.

So, when I say "iMovie Pro" that isn't necessarily pejorative. This product is WAY, WAY, WAY more iMovie than FCP. That doesn't mean you can't cut "a real movie" on it. But for Broadcast TV, it's a real step down in a lot of ways-- at the very least not a step up.. The interface is very iMovie. They should have called it iMovie PRO, especially if they're getting rid of the rest of the FCS apps..

Now if it turns out this is just the tip of the iceberg-- then we really could be in for a treat.

Who said anything about discontinuing Color and the rest of FCS? I can't imagine Apple would think that Color could be replaced by one-click color correction. And once and for all, can we stop saying that making the interface easier to use is making the product less professional? Is OS X less professional than DOS?

 

[handsome pete]

Obviously I know a lot more about it than you. Of course, there are multiple industries that use editing software... but that doesn't matter. You're just puffing out your chest and being snotty.

No, your ignorance of Adobe's stance in the professional broadcast industry comes off as snotty.

 

[marmotmammal]

Audio sync!?

I was just about to buy PluralEyes. Thus far, FCP X seems to be OK, whether it's a real upgrade, iMovie or whatever. 64-bit, editing while ingesting...that's kool. Just gotta wait for more info.

 

[econgeek]

I can't even believe I was arguing with someone who things that magic bullet and Color are even remotely the same thing.

Goodnight, junior.

I can't believe there are people such as yourself with such a stark lack of integrity that you would lie about what I have said in order to insult me... and simultaneously lack the basic wisdom to recognize that quoting me saying what I actually said in the very message where you tell the lie makes the lie obvious to anyone with basic comprehension skills.

I mentioned the likelihood of a plugin system that would allow grading, and I mentioned magic bullet:
http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-looks/

I never said that it and color were "the same", I just gave it as an example of something, like Color, that could be integrated into the app workflow via a plugin architecture. I never made a comparison between them, not that comparing a color grading tool like color to magic bullet looks, which is a color grading tool, is all that radical a notion-- if I had made the comparison.

I'm amazed, if this stark lack of basic integrity and honesty, isn't just you hiding behind an alias online, that you could ever maintain gainful employment acting this way.

You owe me an apology.

 

[CuttyShark]

Hard to take anyone seriously as a professional who uses Adobe. Avid, sure, but the industry has moved to Final Cut Pro, at least the part of the industry I interface with.

You calling this Final Cut a "toy" after it was just presented to a room full of professionals who loved it seems odd. Why the need to diminish it when it is clear that if you werent' there, there's much we don't yet know?

Adobe Photoshop and After Effects are not 'pro'? Please explain that to me. I never said Premiere. I made the switch to FCP in 2005 after 10 years of solid AVID work, yet I still use them both - just depends what job I'm on and who I'm working for. I stand by what I say - It looks like a fun 'toy' to play with. I have my doubts when it comes to some serious sound track organization and color correction. Reminds me a lot of when someone gave me a demo of Speed Edit by Newtek. It's really interesting how alike these seem to be.

Cheers!

 

[econgeek]

No, your ignorance of Adobe's stance in the professional broadcast industry comes off as snotty.

It is impossible for me to display any ignorance of a topic of which I have not addressed. I challenge you to find a post from me where I use the phrase "professional broadcast industry".

If you cannot do it, then you are constructing a lie out of whole cloth in order to attack me, because, apparently, you cannot construct a counter argument to any of the points I have made.

I think your need to attack me proves my case beyond any need of myself to defend my point or myself.

 

[SimD]

I remember a time when people discussed interesting news on MacRumors.

 

[Keebler]

i'm liking the looks so far. being able to make my simple edits while importing more tapes is a huge time saver, let alone having the ability to render in the background as well.

unless i missed it, they never mentioned anything about the exporting capabilities which is understandable given it's an editing tool.

BUT, seeing the re-org and new features, it gives me hope that a similar reboot of compressor for exporting is on the horizon (ie. fully utilizing all cores and 64 bit mode

I don't do much in the way of full bore editing. i transfer people's home movies on reel and tape so the edits are usually basic in nature by removing footage or adding a title. The changes will help me without a doubt.

I do agree with the notion that no software makes an editor better. I would say it's the creativity of choosing the right angles, the timing of shots, a feel for what the director is after, capturing the right moments etc....

FCPX looks like it will help those editors achieve what they want faster and more efficiently. kudos to that!

 

[econgeek]

Adobe Photoshop and After Effects are not 'pro'

We're talking video editing software, and you didn't mention Photoshop, but you bring it up now.

I was expressing my personal opinion, and yes, I think Premier and After Effects are absolute junk. I know many people love them and after sufficient training can get good stuff out of them, much like people love windows and are able to make it work.

But I have trouble taking anyone seriously as an "expert" who argues that Windows, with its terrible UI-- is "professional" while the mac is "a toy". Though of course, back in the day, many did so.

I feel the same way about After Effects (And Premier to a lesser extent). They are so poorly designed that to call them superior makes me question the motivations and perspective (and professionalism) of the person doing so-- as a blanket statement. Making more specific statements, however, I'll likely not dispute. (Eg: a particular algorithm being better, sure.)

A professional seeks tools that allow them to accomplish the job in question with minimum wasted effort, time and resources. The low usability of Adobe solutions (in video) undermines this goal. Seeing somethign that allows one to more quikly develop a professional product as being "toylike" *because* it is more efficient, in favor of poor quality tools, is not a perspective that I associate with those of a professional-- who is more concerned with the end result than protecting sunk educational costs invested to overcome terrible usability.

 

[handsome pete]

It is impossible for me to display any ignorance of a topic of which I have not addressed. I challenge you to find a post from me where I use the phrase "professional broadcast industry".

If you cannot do it, then you are constructing a lie out of whole cloth in order to attack me, because, apparently, you cannot construct a counter argument to any of the points I have made.

I think your need to attack me proves my case beyond any need of myself to defend my point or myself.

Of course you never used that particular phrase. You did claim that you couldn't take an Adobe "pro" seriously. What particular industry do you work in where that's the case?

 

[portishead]

Adobe Photoshop and After Effects are not 'pro'? Please explain that to me. I never said Premiere. I made the switch to FCP in 2005 after 10 years of solid AVID work, yet I still use them both - just depends what job I'm on and who I'm working for. I stand by what I say - It looks like a fun 'toy' to play with. I have my doubts when it comes to some serious sound track organization and color correction. Reminds me a lot of when someone gave me a demo of Speed Edit by Newtek. It's really interesting how alike these seem to be.

Cheers!

Photoshop & AE are awesome applications. Premiere might be a decent editing app, but nobody in the industry uses it. A very small % sure, but only because they don't know FCP or Avid. Maybe do-it-all small post houses, but not dedicated editors. I'm not really trying to knock Premiere - just stating facts.