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And Google holds a monopoly over the sale of Android apps, Sony holds a monopoly of playstation apps, and Microsoft holds a monopoly of Xbox apps. So we should soon be hearing about how the UK government is going after every company selling things, right?

UK law, beyond common, is fairly outside my knowledge base. But if it’s similar to US anti trust law, “is monopoly” vs “is not monopoly” wouldn’t be the “thing” that determines lawful or unlawful. That might be similar in the UK too.

Let’s assume the rulings are correct, whether or not google or another company are also in violation is probably unimportant. Said another way: it is reasonable to take a position in favor of, or in opposition to, this law. Should the policy of the UK change to make Apple’s conduct lawful?
 
And Google holds a monopoly over the sale of Android apps, Sony holds a monopoly of playstation apps, and Microsoft holds a monopoly of Xbox apps. So we should soon be hearing about how the UK government is going after every company selling things, right?

UK is going after Google for the same thing.
 
Aww, poor Apple.

Okay, everybody, all together now:

Aww, poor Apple.
When an innocent comment like this gets 8 downvotes out of 19 reactions it makes me wonder how much MR is used for share price manipulation. Not a coincidence the "leakers" from Bloomberg and [competing?] blogs like Apple Insider all post the exact same "rumors" within hours of each other on a regular basis. Then there's the "influencer" crowd and the tech "journalists" with their "reviews". Does this not look like a concerted effort?

2026 TIME Person of the Year will be the Home Pod Mini 2.
 
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When an innocent comment like this gets 8 downvotes out of 19 reactions it makes me wonder how much MR is used for share price manipulation. Not a coincidence the "leakers" from Bloomberg and [competing?] blogs like Apple Insider all post the exact same "rumors" within hours of each other on a regular basis. Then there's the "influencer" crowd and the tech "journalists" with their "reviews". Does this not look like a concerted effort?

2026 TIME Person of the Year will be the Home Pod Mini 2.
I mean, I don’t even pay attention to the stock market (I’m not in that class of society) but I’d venture to say that every press release and product video Apple puts out is attempting to manipulate share price. As are their earnings calls.

You can’t tell me that pushing non-existent AI or even the introduction of Liquid Glass is not, at some level, an attempt to “make line go up.”

Sad, but true nonetheless.
 
So even UK lawyers are taking words of Steve Jobs and using them in court even though he has no ability to be cross-examined to see what he thought?

I find this rather unbelievable. Or maybe I misunderstand how law works in the UK.
 
While I understand the point you're trying to make, most people can get by in the world without a gaming system. You cannot say the same about a smartphone.

Most (a majority of?) people cannot function in society without a smartphone as the world goes more and more digital (e.g. cashless, digital IDs/passports, etc.). I, like many people, also need a smartphone to do my job. A smartphone is a tool. A gaming system is primarily for entertainment.

That might begin to make sense if iPhone were the only choice of smartphone. Of course it isn't, and it's generally not the market majority.

Even if it was the only choice, and Apple had a hold over the smartphone market, what does that even begin to have to do with how they design app distribution?
 
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Without Apple and the App Store the developers wouldn't even have a market for their product.

Without developers, Apple wouldn't have anything in the App Store to collect fees off of, and their devices wouldn't sell anywhere close to the numbers they do.

It's a symbiotic relationship, whether anyone on either side cares to admit it or not.
 
Do you actually think "grandparents get by without a smartphone" is relevant overall?

They aren't of prime working age and out and in the economy.

By definition they are on the way out (it gives me no pleasure to say that, it's just how it is once we all get to a certain age).
I understand your argument about the value of smartphones. But that value shouldn't necessarily mean that other businesses get to dictate your business model because it doesn't benefit them in a manner they prefer.

There are places in the world where a vehicle is far more important to survival than a smartphone. As a society, we don't allow Ford to dictate Chevy's business model because of it.

And, as has been said many times, you can get the primary functionality of an iPhone (especially the features required to survive and thrive in society) without buying anything from Apple.
 
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I understand your argument about the value of smartphones. But that value shouldn't necessarily mean that other businesses get to dictate your business model because it doesn't benefit them in a manner they prefer.

Governing bodies are doing the dictating, as is their prerogative and obligation quite honestly. We have governing bodies to govern, to regulate, to control, to set the rules of the road and update them as they need to be as well as respond to changes that are voted or lobbied for.

Order in the world is brought about by organizing and governing bodies. Markets don't exist without bodies doing the governing.

Separate out in your mind who brings cases to the forefront. There is always going to be someone doing that, usually a business entity with a complaint. That doesn't make them the bad guy just for bringing an issue (case) to the attention of regulators. Somebody has to.
 
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Pretty sure it's the same fee, not reduced.

I also personally suspect Apple would still fight allowing third party stores even if they got to keep their fee, because it's worse for Apple's users. Maybe not as hard though. It'd be interesting to see a country try that, but there's no regulator in the world who'd try that.
I'm diminishing the scope of "third party stores" here... I'm only proposing that the merchants be allowed to sell download codes. Apple would still do everything else as far as the actual distribution of apps - they'd still have full control over what software can be installed on their devices.

This would bring them into alignment with how Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft operate distributing games for their game systems right now.

Although even then... I think there's a lot more competition between Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft to attract developers than there is between Apple and Google... I'm not quite sure why. I think some of it is that consoles have generations... every new generation is a moment for someone else to steal marketshare. Versus phones... don't really do the whole generation thing... I'm not compelled to buy a new phone because there's some new game requiring it. And if there was, there's hardly any exclusivity (when was the last time there was a big app that was Android only? Has it ever happened? And iOS exclusivity never lasts more than a few weeks and is always just a minor technical or rollout plan kind of thing... it's never something meant to get people to switch platforms.)
 
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That's nice.

I still want to be able install apps outside of Apple's control, be it another store or just loading .ipa files. I don't care who, why, or how it happens.
Okay….this whole argument is because you REQUIRE a Smartphone to LIVE

So what app do you need to live that you can’t get from the App Store?
 
The tribunal also cited comments made by Steve Jobs in 2008 that Apple did not intend to profit from the store and aimed only to cover operating costs. That early statement was referenced by the claimants as evidence that Apple's current commission structure had diverged significantly from its initial framing.

Hyperbolic statement for humorous intent and to make a point: England has deviated significantly from its initial establishment as a monarchy. Seeing as it did not initially intend to turn matters of commerce over to the mere commoners who constitute the CAT, the tribunal should be abolished for violating the monarchy's original intent.

Things change. In 2008, Apps were extremely limited. If we are going to appeal to Jobs' original intent, then apps cannot access bluetooth, NFC, the camera, music, private APIs, background processes, no duplication of Apple's built-in functions, notifications, game engines, in-app purchases, etc.

In short, it doesn't matter what someone said in 2008 or 1066. That is garbage justification to persuade people emotionally and should have nothing to do with the ruling.
 
Governing bodies are doing the dictating, as is their prerogative and obligation quite honestly. We have governing bodies to govern, to regulate, to control, to set the rules of the road and update them as they need to be as well as respond to changes that are voted or lobbied for.

Order in the world is brought about by organizing and governing bodies. Markets don't exist without bodies doing the governing.

Separate out in your mind who brings cases to the forefront. There is always going to be someone doing that, usually a business entity with a complaint. That doesn't make them the bad guy just for bringing an issue (case) to the attention of regulators. Somebody has to.
100% agree that most business related suites are brought by other companies. That doesn't mean the concern is for the benefit of constituents. In actuality, it rarely is, it is more common that the constituent or consumer in those cases will see little or no difference in their market position and/or importance.

The idea that consumer's would be paying less for Apps if Apple was taking no share or a smaller share is quite simply not supported by history or human nature. The consumer cost of any product or service will naturally be set by the maximum that the consumer market is willing to pay. If that is 9.99, it doesn't matter how that 9.99 is split up behind the register.

Damage to the consumer isn't really an issue being legislated. So then the question comes to, who is being damaged by the current system and how. Most small apps never realize annual revenue in excess of 1million in sales. Most small developers generate money through a combination of sale and ad revenue, with add revenue accounting for the majority share. Also, most small developers can't maintain the staffing and infrastructure cost to deliver services at an equivalent level to the App Store. So, small or/and medium developers are probably not being screwed by the current system, and if they are, it is not like any more severe than any farmer is being screwed by grocery distributors.

It may be safe to assume that the only ones being potentially damaged by Apple's system are major developers. The question then becomes, at what point do we use the power of the government to dictate business arrangements between corporations. Obviously, there are times it is important, but I think those times would more likely deal with consumer safety, fraud, and or environmental responsibility, which sadly is where most governments spend the least amount of there efforts.

The way I see most of this is politics, not governing. The value of targeting Apple for any of there supposed or actual sins isn't in correcting them. The value is being seen as fighting the monster that is responsible for everything not perfect in your life. The richer the monster, the better the narrative. The narrative is all that matters, because it's politics and not governing.

Also, can I just say thank you for not posting outrageous hyperbolic crap. Your posts are always thoughtful and respectful, I dig it. 😁
 
Let’s assume the rulings are correct, whether or not google or another company are also in violation is probably unimportant. Said another way: it is reasonable to take a position in favor of, or in opposition to, this law. Should the policy of the UK change to make Apple’s conduct lawful?

You are right that a finding against Apple should be independent of whether any other company is found to have violated the law. Each case should be judged strictly on its own evidence.

The issue of whether the law is applied equally is one of justice. And, unfortunately, the UK does not provide a constitutional guarantee of equal protection in the way systems with codified constitutions do. Parliament may revise or revoke rights and laws at will and without structural limits. As a result, UK bureaucrats have wide discretion in how they prioritize investigations and apply competition law. Similar to the EU, the structure of their law permits favoritism, hostile protectionism, and inconsistent or unjust enforcement. So, these bureaucrats are permitted to single out American companies.
 
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Next they will go after HP and other printer manufacturers for their expensive locked in ink. But it's the excess profits from ink sales that enables HP to sell an A3/A4 dual-tray duplexing printer with A3 duplex scanner for £195. I remember when the first LaserJet in the UK was £3,000 (about £4,200 at today's money).
To be fair printer manufacturers are a bad example here because they are screwing their own customers. One of the four colors is empty? Bad luck buddy, replace all colors. Found cheap ink and did a refill? Bad luck man, the printer knows that the cartridge was empty and won't accept it anymore. They were giving printers away almost for free just to lock you up paying way more for ink than for the printer. Heck in some cases it was cheaper to buy a new printer than buy new ink.
 
When an innocent comment like this gets 8 downvotes out of 19 reactions it makes me wonder how much MR is used for share price manipulation. Not a coincidence the "leakers" from Bloomberg and [competing?] blogs like Apple Insider all post the exact same "rumors" within hours of each other on a regular basis. Then there's the "influencer" crowd and the tech "journalists" with their "reviews". Does this not look like a concerted effort?

2026 TIME Person of the Year will be the Home Pod Mini 2.
No its getting down votes becasuse it stupid and pointless also adds no value.
 
I am a little unclear on what law was broken. If this somehow only applies to Apple then that's BS. If it applies to other platforms then I'd think most software distributors are going to be very very worried.

Uh, the article clearly states "The tribunal agreed, ruling that Apple holds a monopoly over the sale and distribution of iPhone apps and that its commission structure resulted in higher prices being passed on to consumers."

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic...

I would love to see the UK sue PG Tips for having a monopoly on PG Tips tea and thus increasing the price to consumers.
 
Apple makes a lot more money on the App Store than they do on selling phones, tablets and macs. Now if countries are going to force Apple to ONLY cover cost on the App Store this will do 3 things:

1. It will increase the price of the developer license. (99/year)
2. It will force free app publishers to pay a listing / core technology fee for any apps in the store.
3. It will increase the price of apps in the store because of this.

So in the end the consumer will be the ones paying this fine Apple is going to get by paying increased prices.
 
"The tribunal also cited comments made by Steve Jobs in 2008 that Apple did not intend to profit from the store and aimed only to cover operating costs. That early statement was referenced by the claimants as evidence that Apple's current commission structure had diverged significantly from its initial framing."

So the UK basically wants to force Apple's app store to be a de-facto nonprofit entity because of something a dead man said nearly 20 years ago. Got it.

US law is based on what a dead man wrote 238 years ago?
 
And Google holds a monopoly over the sale of Android apps, Sony holds a monopoly of playstation apps, and Microsoft holds a monopoly of Xbox apps. So we should soon be hearing about how the UK government is going after every company selling things, right?
Google don't have a monopoly over the sale of Android apps. I can buy apps from the Samsung app store, the Honor app store, the Epic Games Store, easily with a couple of clicks.
 
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