Apple Designing 5G iPhone Antenna Module In-House After Being Dissatisfied With Qualcomm's Version

[ksec]

My Guess.

1. Apple / Tim Cook has in many interviews openly questioned the Global Roll Out of 5G, by 5G I guess he is referring to mmWave which is what most consumers think it is anyway.

2. Apple wont be having mmWave in any of its iPhone in 2020. ( So no price increase this year, unless they switch to Titanium casing ) It will still have Sub 6, which is pretty great.

3. That means Apple wont be using the QTM mmWave Module. And Fast Company immediately interpreted that as Apple will be making its own Antenna.

 

[Bocconucci]

It is entirely possible for a cellphone manufacturer to have better antenna design engineering competence than might a baseband modem supplier.

Agree. Where Apple is the exception for that rule

 

[zombierunner]

You’re holding it wrong 2.0

 

[Apple_Robert]

If the signal ends up being weak, I will just wrap the phone in tinfoil, like we used to do on the old t.v. antenna’s.

/s

 

[nylonsteel]

if you want things done right..do it yourself
good thing aapl shows some design sense from 3rd parties

 

[0924487]

For 1 mm thinner iPhone, I feel we would need to carry an external amplifier everywhere we go lol. Just like dongles and external battery packs

 

[CatalinApple]

Agreed. The old saying, never buy a first gen apple product!

That's why I never bought the iPhone 6 when it came out, then the iPhone X, iPhone 11 Pro and now the upcoming iPhone later this year. I am very convinced that 2021 will be the right moment to upgrade my iPhone XS.
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Agreed and Apple doesn't have a good track record with 1st gen products... Let's not forget the iphone 4's deathgrip.

The only moments when I bought a first gen Apple product was the iPhone 4, iPhone 5 and my MacBook Pro Retina Mid 2012. Never had an issue with any of them. P.S: I am typing this from the ancient Mid 2012 Retina MacBook Pro, it works like a champ on macOS Catalina 10.15.3 (19D76)
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2010. The iPhone 4 was my first iPhone. But it held up quite good. My wife used it after I bought the iPhone 5s and after that my dad used this iPhone 4 until last year.

It was my first iPhone too. To be honest it's my favorite design and size. I wish Apple would bring the size and a modern design of the iPhone 4 back in 2020.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

Apple had the choice, and it chose. So don’t fantasize about monopolies!

If the choices were between buying from a single supplier and trying make it yourself, that's literally a monopoly.

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Apple absolutely has a choice. They choose to add 5g they choose to purchase from Qualcomm. No one is forcing Apple to buy from Qualcomm. Apple could very easily wait until they designed their own modem.

So the choice is between purchasing from Qualcomm or waiting for a non-existent (at the moment) in-house solution? Since it looks like Apple wants to roll out 5G this year, it's quite clear that Qualcomm is the only realistic choice. Qualcomm will most probably charge a premium until Apple's own modems are ready. It's simple supply and demand, and naturally Apple's unwillingness to pay the premium will spur their development efforts.

 

[GtrDude]

Apple once again going the looks instead of function route.
It's as if they have learned nothing from the 2016 and up Macbook Pro disaster...well, I guess they haven't.

 

[Glideslope]

Apple once again going the looks instead of function route.
It's as if they have learned nothing from the 2016 and up Macbook Pro disaster...well, I guess they haven't.

I disagree. I believe Tim knows exactly what he is doing. He is once again counting on the the legions of ecosystem followers to step up as they always do. All this 5G stuff is overrated anyway. You'll only have access to mm Wave in the Galaxy Ultra. Every other manufacturer is focused on the low band. mm Wave is primarily for large metropolitan areas in areas when it's useful to people out in the open. mm Wave doesn't penetrate structures, you need internal repeaters. Low Band is far better for getting into areas.

5G is not going to be serious in the US until 2022 at the earliest IMO, just hyped out of control by Verizon at this point.

While I am also very nervous about this antenna news it's worth noting Apple does have a Plan B to go into production at the last minute with a slightly thicker device with the QC array.

You really can't blame Apple from wanting to use as little QC silicon as possible. I'm with you though in that I'd take a slighter thicker device for better performance any day.

 

[nexusrule]

Go Apple, go.

 

[femike]

If this article is true, it seems like its going to be a mess. Until Apple has an equal or superior design and specs, it should be using Qualcomm. Otherwise Apple is not going to put in the best tech for its high priced phones.

 

[MattMJB0188]

Personally, I can hardly stand to look at iOS 6 anymore. It’s so... quaint. Very 2000s. Glad they moved on.

I pray every day that they bring it back. I find the iOS 7 look flat and poorly designed. This wasn’t the iPhone experience Jobs wanted. He wanted the original look and feel.

 

[V_Man]

Are they? Or is an antenna or RF front end not supplying a good enough signal to other components to allow the modem to do its job?

It’s a system. Without proper testing, it’s not possible to determine where among the various components/subsystems the problem lies.

I dont know much about the tech side of cellular radios other than it’s hard and Qualcomm is the best at it.

If it is the RF front end or the antenna is this an Apple or Qualcomm issue? Not sure if the answer

can you explain why iPhones with intel modems have issues with signal strength compared to a Qualcomm iPhone. Side by side
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If the choices were between buying from a single supplier and trying make it yourself, that's literally a monopoly.

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So the choice is between purchasing from Qualcomm or waiting for a non-existent (at the moment) in-house solution? Since it looks like Apple wants to roll out 5G this year, it's quite clear that Qualcomm is the only realistic choice. Qualcomm will most probably charge a premium until Apple's own modems are ready. It's simple supply and demand, and naturally Apple's unwillingness to pay the premium will spur their development efforts.

why does Apple need to release a 5g phone now? They never follow the pack. Why now?

5g is a gimmick for now. Some people will have access and love it, but most wont even know if they are using 4g or 5g.

The tech isn’t mature yet. Wait a couple of years. Your tech could be ready. Game over.

Or complain about Qualcomm being unfair while forgetting about how ruthless Apple can be when it suits Apples purpose

 

[Rainshadow]

when you have something like an iphone, 90 percent of time its going into a case.

That doesn’t mean thickness or weight wouldn’t affect my using it. even more so if I put a case on it. The 11 pro is already borderline too heavy For a phone. Would a gram or two make me stop using Apple products? No, but there is point that weight and size of the device affects how you use it.

I used to not notice my iPhone7 in my pocket. I dont make that mistake with my 11Pro. And I used to be able to put it in any pocket. Even my standard 11pro doesn’t fit everywhere anymore and I can’t run with it in my pocket like I used to with my 7. Too heavy for my running shorts. Just a few examples.

 

[I7guy]

...Or complain about Qualcomm being unfair while forgetting about how ruthless Apple can be when it suits Apples purpose

Sure a company that’s unfair butting heads with a ruthless company ending up as Shangri-la.

 

[neuropsychguy]

and don’t forget it triggered one of Steve’s most iconic comebacks “You’re holding it wrong”

I remember reading through the owners manual for my Nokia 6200 I got years ago. It clearly stated that holding the phone in specific ways would interfere with antenna performance (see page 8: http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/CELLPHONES/Nokia 6200 manual.pdf). Steve Jobs's reply: "Just avoid holding it that way" (Source) was maybe not the best PR statement but considering phone owner's manuals had been saying essentially the same thing since at least 2003, it's clear there are "wrong" ways to hold phones.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

My Guess.

1. Apple / Tim Cook has in many interviews openly questioned the Global Roll Out of 5G, by 5G I guess he is referring to mmWave which is what most consumers think it is anyway.

2. Apple wont be having mmWave in any of its iPhone in 2020. ( So no price increase this year, unless they switch to Titanium casing ) It will still have Sub 6, which is pretty great.

3. That means Apple wont be using the QTM mmWave Module. And Fast Company immediately interpreted that as Apple will be making its own Antenna.

Interesting take... you might actually be right...
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Here we go boys, form over function 😁

Not to argue with you, but people always complain about “form over function,” yet when Apple puts function over form (e.g. Mac Pro, iPhone camera bump) people say it looks ugly! 🤣

 

[deconstruct60]

....
Smaller suppliers are not really realistic for Apple since I doubt any of them have the capacity to produce as many units as Apple needs. Minor Android OEMs might have a choice because they ship less units, but Apple can't realistically pick anyone other than Qualcomm.

Qualcomm doesn't make any chips directly. They are like Apple; they farm out their designs to fab companies ( TSMC , Samsung, etc. ) for production. What Qualcomm brings as a larger players is deployability scope to their solutions. The interact , validate, and coordinate with just about every cell service provider and pragmatically all the implementation permutations.

Apple's preference it is to make one core product that ships everywhere ( maybe some firmware 'tweaks' but all basically churned out the same way (from yet another manufacturing contractor(s) ). The uniformity has more to do with better scale (and healthier profits ) than with being a big/small Android OEM.

The second factor is that the boarder the range of implementations have to cover the more likely bump into some of Qualcomm's IP. The other suppliers have a barrier when they get entangled with Qualcomm's IP (which is far more broad than just "non GSM sim card" cell service. ) . Samsung is a cell modem provider and few are willing to put them in the "small" , 'limited resources" supplier camp.


The final factor is fewer and fewer smartphones are using discrete cell modems anymore. One problem that Apple has is that they are increasingly out of the norm for the overall market. There was a quirk last year with the bleeding edge discrete 5G modems, but by end of the year most 5G will be provisioned by integrated modems.
The larger major discrete modem market is PC, hotspot/Wifi modems , cell tower transciever , etc. Mainly stuff that is either plugged in all the time or runs on a relatively very large battery.

Apple is a big single customer, but being a single customer doesn't allow for there to be a large diversity of suppliers. If Apple shifts supplier then that business goes into the crapper. It is very much a dual edged sword. ( Apple wanting a mildly semi custom version of X component is less risky than Apple wanting something extremely custom that almost nobody else is going to buy ).

 

[killhippie]

I was going to skip the first 5G phone, I really dont need 5G speeds yet for my needs. I get a good signal and 130Mbps down and 30Mbps up, on 4G where I live with EE. (rural) I was going to wait for 2021 or at a stretch 2022 to see how the reception and battery life go in the new phones, and also by then maybe 5G will have arrived where I live possibly. Reading this has just made that desion a lot more set in stone, as avoiding the first revision of a new phone with a new celluar band and modem, along with Apples attitude does concern me.

 

[V_Man]

Sure a company that’s unfair butting heads with a ruthless company ending up as Shangri-la.

always come back to $$$. Always.

 

[m0sher]

I don’t think it’s a bad idea for Apple to start looking into antenna independence.

Hopefully, Product testing these days should make it where it’s not an out the door failure.

Example: The Intel antenna in the 11 Pro Max turned out to be better than I thought it would. It wasn’t a big improvement but it was an incremental upgrade from Qualcomm’s previous antenna where skepticism said it would have sucked.

So I remain optimistic that Apple can create an antenna with the performance and quality like they did their bionic CPU chip.

 

[deconstruct60]

Ming-Chi Kuo casts doubt on 2x2 MIMO uplink support for 5G iPhone 12 - 9to5Mac

Apple’s iPhone 12 may not support 2×2 uplink as initially expected, according to the latest report from Ming-Chi Kuo. TF...

9to5mac.com

Already indicative of Apple's design ability.

Apple's design ability or willing to shave a buck from the BOM costs ? The latter is more design willingness than ability. Being a more trailing edge tech adopter is also more conservative.

Apple is far more risk seeking and tolerant in chasing 'thinness" than they are in chasing cellular radio tech. Any move to 5G for Apple is a leap for them.

It does seem likely that Apple will be shooting more so to "check the feature box" on 5G. They'll do just enough to creditably claim a 5G label, but not be the fastest implementation(s). 5G-enough to get more folks to buy it who are waiting.
And then in 2021-2022 Apple 'discovers' 2x2 ( holy moley ! tech chasing folks, you need to upgrade ... again.)

 

[V_Man]

I have no problem with Apple using Apple designed radios, if they perform at as well as Qualcomm’s. Apple usually nails stuff like this. So I hope they design a great chip. It only makes my phone better.

But for now. Qualcomm is king of modems. If Apple wants 5g they really want to deal with them. Does Media tek makes 5g modems?

 

[5105973]

I disagree. I believe Tim knows exactly what he is doing. He is once again counting on the the legions of ecosystem followers to step up as they always do. All this 5G stuff is overrated anyway. You'll only have access to mm Wave in the Galaxy Ultra. Every other manufacturer is focused on the low band. mm Wave is primarily for large metropolitan areas in areas when it's useful to people out in the open. mm Wave doesn't penetrate structures, you need internal repeaters. Low Band is far better for getting into areas.

5G is not going to be serious in the US until 2022 at the earliest IMO, just hyped out of control by Verizon at this point.

While I am also very nervous about this antenna news it's worth noting Apple does have a Plan B to go into production at the last minute with a slightly thicker device with the QC array.

You really can't blame Apple from wanting to use as little QC silicon as possible. I'm with you though in that I'd take a slighter thicker device for better performance any day.

I believe Verizon is currently deploying ONLY mmWave. I'm buying a Samsung s20 which lacks mmWave support but has the lower frequency 5G hardware. I'm on AT&T which barely has a 4G presence here in the boonies so it's kind of moot for me for another couple of years. (I'm not buying it for 5G)

Verizon customers who want their 5G where Verizon 5G servicr currently exists are going to have to be happy with big phones like the S20+ and S20 ultra because it's mmWave only. Which personally I think is annoying and crazy of Verizon, but what do I know.

Anything the size of an iphone 11 on down apparently can't accommodate the mmWave antennas yet. Though Verizon said they will be releasing an mmWave capable S20 toward the end of the year somehow. If they can find a way to fit mmWave antennas into an S20, then Apple will be able to do it, but like this article says, they'll probably have to buy that capability. It seems like they wouldn't have the time to design their own hardware and put it into production by the usual iPhone release schedule. And they're still probably wrestling with issues from the virus in China. It will be interesting to see how this all resolves.