Johnny Ive caused only damage to Apple.
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Apple Designing More Functional Products Since Jony Ive's Departure, Argues Bloomberg Reporter
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I suspect that the reason for the breakup was hundreds of millions of losses due to the butterfly keyboard.
The 4 USB ports were pretty much perfection. Having all these ports is fine as well … but the MagSafe is completely redundant. Should have had a tear away cord that plugs into the USB C. But pros want the ports so pros get the ports. These are work machines so if ports make work easier than that’s great. But the card reader…that’s just silly.
That's it right there!
Jony was an artist NOT a designer.
A designer cares about how the material he uses actually influences the form and function and Jony simply didn't.
Bendable 6000-series aluminum iPhones and diamond chamfers on anodized surfaces were beautiful artwork but completely unsuitable for function.
I don't think you'll notice the extra 0.6mm thickness of the 16" model, though it is 100g heavier. I wouldn't call SD cards obsolete though - what has replaced them? What has replaced HDMI for connection to projectors, TVs and displays? And why is wasting a precious TB port for an almost permanently connected power cable a great idea? Especially when they already had a great solution with MagSafe.
The 'mob' is also their customer base. Sure, it's good to show design leadership, and focus groups wouldn't have given us classics like the iMac G4, but just being stubborn or refusing to admit mistakes isn't clever either. They weren't fooling anyone at this point that the Touch Bar, dongles or overheating were great design choices.
Bezels on the new MacBook Pros are thinner than the iPad Pro (not counting the bottom one).
I disagree.
He’s too important to apples history not to at least have his opinion asked about their future designs and have his input listen to.
This is the man who designed the iMac G3, the original iPod, the iMac G4, the unibody MacBooks, the original iPhone, the original iPad, the iPhone 4, the Apple Watch, even the 2013 Mac Pro.
Obviously not all of his designs were a success, but he still deserves respect.
Just like if Steve Jobs were alive, even if you weren’t actively working at Apple, it would still be important to get his input in my opinion.
I should note that the flat edges of the iPhone 12 and 13 models also allow for better antenna design, too. Apple, has of course learning from the Antennagate fiasco of 11 years ago and the current "wraparound" antennas are actually quite good.
I guess Jony and Steve gave were the right mixture. Steve somehow kept Jony from running amok.
Yet the iPhone 6s, which looked identical and used a slightly different spec of aluminium was completely suitable? Also, I had an iPhone 6 for years and somehow avoided bending it. Maybe I just didn't make a habit of sitting on it.
And what was wrong with diamond cut chamfers? Haven't heard any issues about that one before.
Jony Ives is a hack-fraud and it's great the media is finally coming around to recognize it.
The statement misses a couple of key points, 1) the iPad needs a larger bezel to allow the device to be gripped, 2) the iPad and iPhone are much thicker than the screen element of the MacBook 3) there was a design trade off of thinner bezel and notch or thick bezel at the top.
For me apple made the correct decision on 3) with this approach the thick bezel and no notch can be achieved through software so everyone can have what they want.
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There’s no question that J.I. made Mac products a lot worse in his later years.
I have to wonder who at Apple is doing the sign-off on the overall design language now, as it seems like a mess when viewed as a whole?
The iPad Pro‘s, Airs and now Mini, and iPhones 12 and 13 are home runs as far as I’m concerned design-wise. The M1 iMac has a similar form factor (hard edged modern look), but then uses questionable color choices, especially the white bezel.
The Watch is clearly a remnant of the past rounded edge design (which was born out of the rounded edge iPhones of the day), which I can’t imagine will last much longer and should have been updated this year, imho.
The new MacBook Pro designs clearly aren’t an evolution from the previous form factor, and instead look more like something from the 2000’s, so they have almost no familial similarities to any other current Apple product, which seems really strange to me. Looking at my 2013 rMBP 15”, it has the same hard edged, flat sides look as my M1 iPad Pro, and in fact they’re almost the exact same thickness (bottom case edge compared to the edge of the iPad Pro), so I suppose you could argue that the current iPad Pro / Air / Mini form factor is an evolution of the design language from the 2010’s.
I look at the renders of what the potential new MacBook Air might look like, with it’s thinner profile and square edge design and think that is exactly what I would want to see in a modern, updated, MacBook Air…except I’m doubtful that they’d go this direction, especially now that the high end workhorse MBP’s have taken on a decidedly retro look.
It wouldn’t make sense for them to have these separate design languages going, with what I consider a more modern, hard-edged, design getting used for a consumer focused product and the new rounded case design being used for high-end professional use. It would make more sense if they updated the MBA to have a more rounded design that follows the form of the the new MBP’s.
It’s certainly possible that having a number of different design languages was part of their plan, regardless of whether Jony Ive was there or not, but I doubt that is the case. If I had to guess, what we’re seeing is that there isn’t a single current voice at Apple dictating design at 30,000 feet and instead they’re making products as they come up for re-design how ever they see fit, regardless of whether they have any similarity to their other products.
The iPad Pro‘s, Airs and now Mini, and iPhones 12 and 13 are home runs as far as I’m concerned design-wise. The M1 iMac has a similar form factor (hard edged modern look), but then uses questionable color choices, especially the white bezel.
The Watch is clearly a remnant of the past rounded edge design (which was born out of the rounded edge iPhones of the day), which I can’t imagine will last much longer and should have been updated this year, imho.
The new MacBook Pro designs clearly aren’t an evolution from the previous form factor, and instead look more like something from the 2000’s, so they have almost no familial similarities to any other current Apple product, which seems really strange to me. Looking at my 2013 rMBP 15”, it has the same hard edged, flat sides look as my M1 iPad Pro, and in fact they’re almost the exact same thickness (bottom case edge compared to the edge of the iPad Pro), so I suppose you could argue that the current iPad Pro / Air / Mini form factor is an evolution of the design language from the 2010’s.
I look at the renders of what the potential new MacBook Air might look like, with it’s thinner profile and square edge design and think that is exactly what I would want to see in a modern, updated, MacBook Air…except I’m doubtful that they’d go this direction, especially now that the high end workhorse MBP’s have taken on a decidedly retro look.
It wouldn’t make sense for them to have these separate design languages going, with what I consider a more modern, hard-edged, design getting used for a consumer focused product and the new rounded case design being used for high-end professional use. It would make more sense if they updated the MBA to have a more rounded design that follows the form of the the new MBP’s.
It’s certainly possible that having a number of different design languages was part of their plan, regardless of whether Jony Ive was there or not, but I doubt that is the case. If I had to guess, what we’re seeing is that there isn’t a single current voice at Apple dictating design at 30,000 feet and instead they’re making products as they come up for re-design how ever they see fit, regardless of whether they have any similarity to their other products.
"More functional since he left" might be true. But "more functional because he left" is most probably not.
He's only been out for a couple of years and even then he still plays a design role for Apple via Lovefrom.
The development pipelines for these new MacBook Pros, and for the flat-sided iPhones Webb mentions, stretch further into the past than a couple of years.
There is a narrative that Ive's designs were spiteful and user-hostile, and that he reigned supreme within Apple - and that now he's gone the design team can breathe.
That narrative just does not compute for one of history's most successful and effective designers. Design is all about improvement, compromise, and acknowledging when you've got it wrong.
This is exactly what the 2021 MacBook Pro is compared with the 2016 model.
He's only been out for a couple of years and even then he still plays a design role for Apple via Lovefrom.
The development pipelines for these new MacBook Pros, and for the flat-sided iPhones Webb mentions, stretch further into the past than a couple of years.
There is a narrative that Ive's designs were spiteful and user-hostile, and that he reigned supreme within Apple - and that now he's gone the design team can breathe.
That narrative just does not compute for one of history's most successful and effective designers. Design is all about improvement, compromise, and acknowledging when you've got it wrong.
This is exactly what the 2021 MacBook Pro is compared with the 2016 model.
The Americans really hate on Ive, don’t they? And still can’t stop themselves.
What you’ve got now is a notebook designed by committee. It’s is ugly AF and has the same myriad confusing configs that Steve and Jony binned off 20 years ago.
A dull bean counter of a company now run by the wrong people.
What you’ve got now is a notebook designed by committee. It’s is ugly AF and has the same myriad confusing configs that Steve and Jony binned off 20 years ago.
A dull bean counter of a company now run by the wrong people.
I'm mixed on Ive. I think he did a lot to push design but like a lot of people who find success, they sometimes do down a sort of rabbit hole after they find said success. I like the design of macOS a lot and have preferred iOS since they started going away from the pre-7 design.
The problem is when you lose touch about who a product serves.
Look at the Trashcan Pro. I actually hoped they were going to make a bigger deal out of using Thunderbolt and eGPUs for that machine but really, it was just kind of a fail. Interesting, but... professional users still need to do their work and maintain their standard workflows.
Reducing weight and bulk on laptops is definitely a priority. However, where it resides in the list of priorities is quite different on a Pro laptop versus the Air. I remember when the 2016 models came out and they had the 2 port Pro with no TouchBar and there's Phil Schiller talking about how much people like they Air so they made this... weird... Air-ish Pro thing. (I know, a lot of you liked it because it had no TouchBar, but that's not the point.)
Lighter and thinner is good but you've got to compromise with performance and usability. I see some people here griping about relatively small increases in weight and size like we suddenly have boat anchors. Uhhh... okay. If you must have the lightest and thinnest machine, get an Air! It's better than having some horribly compromised smaller "Pro" machine.
As someone who prefers Apple's smaller notebooks, I'm thrilled about the 14" machine. The 13" MacBook Pros have been really, really hobbled since their inception—dual core processors until 2019, integrated Intel awful video, downscaled default resolution, etc. I liked the size and wanted more than the Air but for the price they were kind of a terrible value. This was the case pretty much since they've existed, not just 2016 but since the first unibody 13" Pros were released in 2010. (I had a 2010 13" Pro, a 2016 13" Pro, and a 2020 13" pro.)
I still really dislike HDMI on these machines in a big way, especially if it came at the cost of another TB4 port (although I can't tell if that's the case). To me, TB4 ports are the apex of flexibility in a machine that cannot add new functionality via internal upgrades.
In general, I like the hardware direction on the Mac line since the new Mac Pro was released. I hope they get back into the display business again with something a little less pro. The XDR is way too much for me, but my old LED Cinema Display was the best standalone display I've ever had.
Whatever the case, this is gonna be the design on the MacBook Pros for at least the next 4 years. I'm really curious to see the rest of the Mac lineup this year. Overall I'm pleased with the direction despite some minor gripes.
The problem is when you lose touch about who a product serves.
Look at the Trashcan Pro. I actually hoped they were going to make a bigger deal out of using Thunderbolt and eGPUs for that machine but really, it was just kind of a fail. Interesting, but... professional users still need to do their work and maintain their standard workflows.
Reducing weight and bulk on laptops is definitely a priority. However, where it resides in the list of priorities is quite different on a Pro laptop versus the Air. I remember when the 2016 models came out and they had the 2 port Pro with no TouchBar and there's Phil Schiller talking about how much people like they Air so they made this... weird... Air-ish Pro thing. (I know, a lot of you liked it because it had no TouchBar, but that's not the point.)
Lighter and thinner is good but you've got to compromise with performance and usability. I see some people here griping about relatively small increases in weight and size like we suddenly have boat anchors. Uhhh... okay. If you must have the lightest and thinnest machine, get an Air! It's better than having some horribly compromised smaller "Pro" machine.
As someone who prefers Apple's smaller notebooks, I'm thrilled about the 14" machine. The 13" MacBook Pros have been really, really hobbled since their inception—dual core processors until 2019, integrated Intel awful video, downscaled default resolution, etc. I liked the size and wanted more than the Air but for the price they were kind of a terrible value. This was the case pretty much since they've existed, not just 2016 but since the first unibody 13" Pros were released in 2010. (I had a 2010 13" Pro, a 2016 13" Pro, and a 2020 13" pro.)
I still really dislike HDMI on these machines in a big way, especially if it came at the cost of another TB4 port (although I can't tell if that's the case). To me, TB4 ports are the apex of flexibility in a machine that cannot add new functionality via internal upgrades.
In general, I like the hardware direction on the Mac line since the new Mac Pro was released. I hope they get back into the display business again with something a little less pro. The XDR is way too much for me, but my old LED Cinema Display was the best standalone display I've ever had.
Whatever the case, this is gonna be the design on the MacBook Pros for at least the next 4 years. I'm really curious to see the rest of the Mac lineup this year. Overall I'm pleased with the direction despite some minor gripes.
There's a great book: "The Design of Everyday Things" that discusses how form often makes objects confusing and difficult to use because they don't recognize how we interact with devices. Norman's big dig is " I bet the designer won an award for that."
I ran into that in a design project where the designers made a bunch of cool digital gauges that would be absolutely worthless, and cause problems in some scenarios; it took a while to get them to go back to digital versions of an analog gauge.
The trashcan....
He deserves the respect for the trashcan
Totally agree. The people who are just blanketing everything that Ive did as rubbish clearly don't understand Apple's History. Jony Ive created some of the most iconic products of our time and changed the landscape.Mad respect for Johnny, and I do feel some great products came out under his reign. That said, I think his form (or design) over function did start to run him later in his years.
Some Great products
- Original iPod
- Original iPhone
- Powerbook G4 aluminum
- Powermac G5 (Later Classic Mac Pro)
- iMac (G3-G4-G5)
- iBook G3 (OG) especially in Lime
- Touch Bar (that item not the product it was in)
Some Meh products.
- Original hockey puck mouse (iMac G3)
- Magic Mouse (charge location)
- iBook G3 (2nd generation) (the hinge system was terrible and destroyed video cables)
- earpods
- various keyboards
- Later MacBook Pros with zero ports besides USB-C
All just my opinion. None look as awesome as the Macintosh Quadra 840av™
I would agree that some of his later designs left a lot to be desired but ultimately, what he did in those early years was nothing less than outstanding.
J Ive was all about fashion accessories. He forgot he was designing functional computers.
Apple have rejected a lot of his designs, as we’ve seen - rollback of touchbar, keyless escape button, keyboard that kept breaking, return of SDCard and HDMI port - less dongles required for the majority.
His earlier designs were good, but somehow he lost the plot.
Apple are better off without Ive.
Apple have rejected a lot of his designs, as we’ve seen - rollback of touchbar, keyless escape button, keyboard that kept breaking, return of SDCard and HDMI port - less dongles required for the majority.
His earlier designs were good, but somehow he lost the plot.
Apple are better off without Ive.
Not always, sometimes those two got carried away a bit.
Hockey puck mouse: at the time called one of the worst mouse in history.
G4 Cube: absolutely beautiful but extremely expensive and prone to overheating, discontinued exactly one year after introduction.
iMac G4: again absolutely beautiful, but prone to so many issues that it was discontinued two years after introduction.
iPod shuffle third generation: absolutely no buttons, extremely horrible usability, buttons came back only a year later.
iPhone 4 antenna: do I even need to talk about this one?
Ive was good with Jobs as counterpart. Alone he is not a capable. Just listen to any interview – he has nothing relevant to say. Neither as a designer nor as a human being.
Cook had to wait to get rid of him, since he needed the criticism from the media and the customers to 'let him go'. Had he done it a year or two after Jobs' passing while Ive was still misinterpreted as a guru, he would have been tarred and feathered... Cook impresses me. He solved this problem without anybody really noticing it.
Cook had to wait to get rid of him, since he needed the criticism from the media and the customers to 'let him go'. Had he done it a year or two after Jobs' passing while Ive was still misinterpreted as a guru, he would have been tarred and feathered... Cook impresses me. He solved this problem without anybody really noticing it.
Awfully convenient to blame Jony Ive when there is an entire massive company at work on these machines. Every iteration of these machines.
Jony Ive was not dictating anything to anyone.
Jony Ive was not dictating anything to anyone.