I don't have any problems with Apple searching out an Atom processor and denying the OS/X from running on it. I think it's a good thing that the Apple OS cannot run on cheap netbooks, and especially since it signals Apple's intention NEVER to build an Atom based netbook Mac, which is a VERY good thing! If you like OS/X so much, buy a Mac. Otherwise, go buy Dell or some other PC. Apple has every right to bundle their OS with their hardware. That has been the way of computers ever since the first IBM 360.
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Apple Disabling Support for Intel Atom Processor in Latest 10.6.2 Build?
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cmaier
Suspended
Yes, Apple is tying software to hardware, and yes it is legal to do so.
And of course they won't sell you an Apple w/o OSX, because, indeed, they're sold as a package. Just like when you buy a PS3, the PS3 firmware is part of the package.
Well, it's been rehashed over and over, but since OSX works on other computers, and Apple sells OSX unlike PS3 firmware, the argument is moot.
Anyway they haven't blocked Psystar or hackintoshes at all. Psystar doesn't sell netbooks, so life goes on for them. It's not a strike at the hackintosh community at all.
DMann
macrumors 601
No, because that would be delusional.
He certainly does make an effort, does he not?
Interesting old story...
http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html
would be nice to know what the refund would be on a 'refused' license for OS X, if any.
with S/L at a cheap price, is there the opportunity to make money?
http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html
would be nice to know what the refund would be on a 'refused' license for OS X, if any.
with S/L at a cheap price, is there the opportunity to make money?
Reading Apple's terms and policies...
it appears as though there is no allowance to buy the hardware and reject the software terms. If you buy a bundle it 'implies' you need to either accept it and use everything, software and hardware but if you disagree with the EULA on the software then you should return both hardware and software for a refund.
interesting....
also of note is that if you buy a retail copy of the software with a seal or similar then you CANNOT return it if the seal is broken... which seeing as you need to break the seal to read the license is crazy!
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html#topic-21
Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:
Personalized iPods
Opened memory
Opened software*
Electronic Software Downloads
Software Up-to-Date Program Products (i.e., software upgrade subscription product)
Apple Gift Cards
Apple Gift Packaging (origami style gift box with ribbon and greeting card)
Apple Developer Connection Products (Membership and Technical Support)
*You may return software after rejecting the licensing terms, provided the software is not installed on a computer. However, software that contains a printed software license may not be returned if the seal or sticker on the software media packaging is broken.
it appears as though there is no allowance to buy the hardware and reject the software terms. If you buy a bundle it 'implies' you need to either accept it and use everything, software and hardware but if you disagree with the EULA on the software then you should return both hardware and software for a refund.
interesting....
also of note is that if you buy a retail copy of the software with a seal or similar then you CANNOT return it if the seal is broken... which seeing as you need to break the seal to read the license is crazy!
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html#topic-21
Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:
Personalized iPods
Opened memory
Opened software*
Electronic Software Downloads
Software Up-to-Date Program Products (i.e., software upgrade subscription product)
Apple Gift Cards
Apple Gift Packaging (origami style gift box with ribbon and greeting card)
Apple Developer Connection Products (Membership and Technical Support)
*You may return software after rejecting the licensing terms, provided the software is not installed on a computer. However, software that contains a printed software license may not be returned if the seal or sticker on the software media packaging is broken.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
Bolded statement is a big uh ? The trial is set for January in Apple vs Psystar.
Why did you contradict yourself ?
Obviously, if they include a printed copy, it's not going to be under seal. So you're free to read it before breaking the seal on the package.
So typical for this board... if something is not within the US, it does not exist.
https://www.pearc.de/ (Germany) sells non Apple computers with OSX preinstalled for a year now and they claim Apple did not even contact them yet. I know someone who actually ownes one of these, they are not fake, they *do* exist!
Christian
gnasher729
Suspended
Quite right. It is called tying. It is illegal when you have a monopoly, and legal if you have no monopoly. That is why Dell has to give you a refund for the software if you don't want Windows (90% market share), but Apple doesn't have to (10% market share).
The footnote makes this quite clear. If there was a printed license, then you could read it before you broke any seal. If there was no printed license, and you had to break a seal to return the software, then you can return it, even with a broken seal. That is perfectly fair and also legal.
The UCITA has even a special rule if someone created an installer that only shows the license _after_ installation. In that case not only do you have the right to return the software _after_ installation (no matter what the license says), they even have to help you removing the software and putting your computer back to its original state or pay you for your work if you have trouble doing it. Doesn't affect Apple because the installer always shows the license before installation.
Interesting use of logic. The question you forgot to ask is how much higher (or lower, who knows?) Apple's sales and net profit would have been if it had offered a netbook at an attractive price. I think it is impossible to compute this opportunity risk of staying out of the market.
Moreover, like with iPods and now iPhones, there is a halo element to the better netbooks. Acer, for one, has gone some way to rehabilitating its awful reputation and has gone to post record sales, even if the netbooks are not necessarily contributing greatly to the bottom line. It has definitely been a worthwhile venture for Acer in terms of positive mindshare.
As it happens, Apple's strategy of not trying to spread itself too thinly might be the cleverer option at the end of the day. It doesn't, however, prove your point above.
You were right with one thing, though. Stellarola's blog entry seems to have been a bit premature. There are enough anecdotal reports to suggest that not only is 10.6.2 running on Atom based netbooks, but it is running more smoothly than ever.
But this is Macrumors, so people will moan and groan regardless.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Isn't this saying that you can't open the envelope containing the DVD?
There's no contradiction. You can open the outer box, read the license, and return it as long as the seal on the DVD is intact.
gilkisson
macrumors 65816
And they are irrelevant. Compare them with the latest iMac line - they are slightly more expensive than a Mac, and the Mac meets or beats them feature by feature. And who's going to support these?
The point of building a hack isn't that it's impossible, or even to save money. It's mostly because someone in authority (Apple) says it isn't allowed. Not "you CAN not do this", but rather "you MAY not do this". That impels some people to say "oh yeah? Watch this!" and go do it, then sit back and brag about how cool/smart they are. Buying a hackintosh, to this type of person, is lame.
uberamd
macrumors 68030
I wasn't aware OS X discs had a seal inside the box. I purchased both Leopard and Snow Leopard retail copies, and don't recall breaking any seals besides the shrink wrap on the box.
UCITA is a modification of UCC, the Uniform Commercial Code. UCITA would make Apple licenses legal. But UCITA is only law in two states, right? It has been shot down everywhere else.
My copy of Snow Leopard here in the UK was shrink wrapped.boxed.
The box had a seal on it, I had to break the seal on the box to get in. The license and disc were in the box, neither were sealed.
Regardless of Apple policy/EULA.
My contract of sale is with the retailer (krcs in my case) who don't accept opened software for refunds, unless its faulty.
uberamd
macrumors 68030
Right. Big distinction here. You purchased the box. Krcs sold you the box. The license for usage does not involve them though - they are just the distributor. The usage license is a totally separate step and is between you and Apple. I doubt that krcs cares what you do with the box and disc that they sell you. They just care that they get your money and ship you the product and that you get it free of defects. Anything else is outside of them.
Any company involved with the distribution (outside of Apple) is just acting as a third party delivery agent and not as a party of the licensee (Apple). Looking at this from another angle, if a courier sends you a contract, the courier doesn't care if you sign it or not or attempt to haggle over the terms. The courier's job (like in your case krcs) is to ensure you get the package - they act independently of the packages contents. Another example is when you get a subpoena. The guy delivering the subpoena is often times just a delivery guy and is not involved in any part of the case that you have been summoned to. Not even the guy handing the subpoena to the issuer has anything to do worth the contents of the subpoena. If you want to dispute the subpoena, you don't go to the delivery guy, you go to the guy who made the original order (the judge or attorney). So when you have an issue with the license of OSX, you do not deal with the guys who gave you the box. You deal with the guys who own the content you are licensing it from. The reseller is not a party to the terms - why should they deal with it at all?
Agents to delivery act as third parties whose involvements are very limited in their overall involvement. The reseller just acts as a delivery agent and just makes sure that the content the physical content that they sell you meets the standards that they operate under.
Software is not a physical item however and is not "sold". Most retailers or reseller do not possesses the rights(outside of first sale contexts of course) to license said software so they keep a hands off approach. They just sell the medium and thats all they do. Since the software is intellectual property, any copyrights are outside of their jurisdiction. At the most their only involvement with the copyrights (covered by licensee) is to ensure that the disc/box is a legitimate product and is sell-able and not a forgery.
Isn't it a drag to be broke? Damn, all that nice stuff out there and you can't have it so you compromise... what a drag you poor thing... you poor, poor thing!
CQd44
macrumors 6502a
I hackintosh for fun. I can't imagine anyone doing any serious work with one. It's not really a "compromise" in my case.
and again...
I've paid KRCS, they WILL NOT refund me for opened software whether I agree, disagree with the licence think it stinks or whatever.
Apple have received money (I assume) from KRCS at wholesale prices. So for me to get my £25 back where do I go?
KRCS won't and Apple can't.
The LAW of THIS land is not superceded by some flimsily worded Apple EULA.
your assertions of sale and license, at least as they apply in the UK are weak at best.
10% includes handhelds. Given the context Archipellago's figure is more appropriate.
worldwide....
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9128838/World_PC_sales_set_for_massive_decline?intsrc=hm_list
"The research firm said PC shipments will hit 257 million units this year"
now Apple will sell c. 10million machines this year.
you do the math.
4% overstates it.