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Apple wont be running OS X on their new servers. They will be running Linux - just like Microsoft do.

OS X = Built for DESKTOP/USER use (quick & dirty patch = OS X Server)
Linux = Built for SERVER use (quick & dirty patch = desktop/user os)

Linux does have its uses, and its in servers where it shines.

I disagree with some of this. Linux was not designed to be a server OS, it was originally targeted towards desktop users. I was there at the start, and for many of us UNIX folks it was a cheap (although at the time, annoying to build all the software from scratch) way to get *NIX on commodity hardware. Thanks to an understanding spouse, I invested heavily in building a 386sx to be able to run it: at the time, the only other real alternatives were Coherent and Minix. BSD was creeping along, and 386BSD was still a work-in-progress. The kernel Linus developed was the key to it all, combined with the Gnu software and a lot of hard work. But it was not targeted at servers.

Solaris is far more of a server OS. Even it has its roots way back in the workstation market.

OS X as a server OS isn't bad (this coming from 22+ years as a UNIX admin), but some of the tools are awkward at times. Having said that, we have several Xserves with LOM in our datacenter doing excellent work for a variety of uses.
 
I disagree with some of this. Linux was not designed to be a server OS, it was originally targeted towards desktop users.

And to call things like KDE and Gnome quick&dirty patches is quite ignorant on the work that went into both those projects and all the smaller desktop projects that are active to this day in the open source world.
 
Are any tools to manage Mac Clients with Linux or Windows?
Open directory, user applications, Logins, ical etc...?

i believe Windows 2008 will natively manage Mac clients. in the past there was something called Mac services for Windows or something like that. but with Samba you can just access files between servers. OS X already has a lot of support for active directory which is nothing more than open ldap with a ready made schema
 
i believe Windows 2008 will natively manage Mac clients. in the past there was something called Mac services for Windows or something like that. but with Samba you can just access files between servers. OS X already has a lot of support for active directory which is nothing more than open ldap with a ready made schema

I really doubt Windows 2008 will natively manage Mac clients. It might provide authentification mecanisms for sso (but that isn't anything new, OS X already supports binding to Active Directory, see http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1532) but it won't provide netinstall/netboot/netrestore services, update services or other client management/imaging tools.

As for Mac Services for Windows, I believe you mean Services For Macintosh :

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc736837(WS.10).aspx

Notice how this only provides native file/print sharing and the Appletalk protocol on Windows. Nothing really extraordinary.
 
wonder if it will put a dent in Mac sales growth

i was buying a car a month ago and one dealer replaced all their Windows PC's with iMac's. didn't do much good since the sales person didn't know too much
 
Looks weird to apple to stop mac xserve, is like plugging off the cord for OSX Server too, so if they removed this rack unit, does that means the end of OSX Server?

Or do this means that they will allow dell to sell OSX Server :rolleyes:
 
Hopefully the next step is that Apple will announce an agreement with IBM where they allow OS X Server to be virtualized on IBM enterprise blade servers. More scalable, energy efficient, and better supported hardware.
 
Hopefully the next step is that Apple will announce an agreement with IBM where they allow OS X Server to be virtualized on IBM enterprise blade servers. More scalable, energy efficient, and better supported hardware.

Such a step should have been made before announcing the Xserve EOL. Whatever credibility Apple had in the realm of enterprise has been seriously damaged.
 
Don't try to save the XServe, try to save Apple OSX Server

This petition goes straight to Apple and Steve once filled out and submitted. I encourage everyone to sign it and support the xserve.

www.xserve-petition.com

Thanks!

IMO it would make more sense to petition the overlord to either partner with HP to support a limited *range* of best-in-class x64 servers, or to allow Apple OSX Server to run as a guest under Hyper-V and ESX.

There's much better hardware out there than the XServe - some cheaper, some much much more powerful.
 
Everyone who signs the above petition should immediately purchase an Xserve. Perhaps if sales were to hit record levels this quarter, Steve-o will keep them around. Absent massive sales this year, I doubt seriously the will stay, regardless how many sign the petition.
 
IMO it would make more sense to petition the overlord to either partner with HP to support a limited *range* of best-in-class x64 servers, or to allow Apple OSX Server to run as a guest under Hyper-V and ESX.

There's much better hardware out there than the XServe - some cheaper, some much much more powerful.

Agreed. SJ isn't going to bring back the Xserve, but perhaps he'd license OS X server to another company to make a blade.
 
Why think so small?

Agreed. SJ isn't going to bring back the Xserve, but perhaps he'd license OS X server to another company to make a blade.

A "blade" would mostly replace the current low-end entry-level XServe.

If Apple partnered with HP, they could support Apple OSX Server on 4 socket 32 core 4U servers with 1024 GiB of RAM and 11 PCIe slots. Little additional cost for Apple, since HP servers from single socket 2 core systems to quad socket 32 core systems look the same to the software.

If you're building a Final Cut Server render farm, why be limited to using small building blocks with severely restricted I/O options?
 
If Apple partnered with HP, they could support Apple OSX Server on 4 socket 32 core 4U servers with 1024 GiB of RAM and 11 PCIe slots. Little additional cost for Apple, since HP servers from single socket 2 core systems to quad socket 32 core systems look the same to the software.

If you're building a Final Cut Server render farm, why be limited to using small building blocks with severely restricted I/O options?

Agree absolutely. Apple could partner with an HP or SGI on this.
 
Based on what I've seen in other forums and Lethelwolfe's post, I'm starting to suspect that a large centralized system may not be what is used in actual houses. Instead smaller groups may have their own separate resources with access to a large storage array for archiving and transferring projects between groups.

Lethalwolfe, would you mind discussing the workflow and setup used in a sizable production house for live action video? Is it more centralized or more distributed? Do you think the loss of XServes is a big deal? Do you know of any large deployments of XServes?
Speaking strictly about FCP, and from my observations and experiences, I'd say centralized storage is used by a minority of FCP's 1.5 million registered users (I think FCP is up to 1.5 million now). FCP is most popular with the low end and middle segments of the industry and enterprise level solutions are beyond the scope and cost of most of these users. For most just buying more local storage (internal or external) and 'sneaker netting' footage if multi-editor collaboration is required is a more simple and less expensive option. For those that do need to venture into this realm though there are turnkey solutions such as EditShare that are probably more popular than Apple's offerings (again due to price and easy of use). Of course once you get into higher end companies that have invested in FCP (such as CNN, 21st Century FOX, Bunim/Murray Productions, etc.,.) they will have more of the resources and infrastructure to go more 'all out' when it comes to shared storage. Even going all out doesn't mean needing hundreds of seats. 20 or 30 edit bays running full time is a pretty big, pretty busy facility. There are bigger ones out there but they aren't very common at all if you are looking at the world of post production as a whole.

Not to state the obviously but the loss of Xserves could a big deal to companies that have built their shared storage around Apple's xSan and/or spent the time and money it takes to hand code Final Cut Server into something useful. Those are still just the minority of the user base though. Where I'm at we very Mac centric so our production technology guys are a little word about the upgrade path for our three xSans (around 140TB of combined storage). Hopefully Apple will reveal alternatives in the future so that companies that have invested hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, won't be up a creek but who knows. Apple doesn't release roadmaps and relatively soon people will maintaining these systems will have to decide what their alternatives are.

For Avid users I've found that centralized storage is more often utilized and I think it's that way for a few reasons. Avid is still dominant with the higher-end (bigger budget) productions, Avid software is better designed for multi-user environments (FCP is basically a single-user product that can be shoehorned into multi-user situations), and Avid makes first party, shared storage systems (Unity and ISIS) that are purpose built for post production. Avid has even qualified FCP for use on it's Unity and ISIS systems.


Lethal
 
spoken like someone who has never supported a server farm, SAN, data storage etc. people, please leave the discussion to IT support to the folks that actually know what they are talking about, consumers - this isn't your thread haha
I think Apple needs to release a 1U rack which holds 6 - 9 minis, prewired with PSUs and Cat 6e.

Personally, I'd rather have 9 Minis > 1 Xserve.
i agree with you, but for those already vested, last minute update with no upgrade path has to sting. it just shows another area apple is neglecting, instead of xserves serving that data using both their hardware and software, it will be served by another vendors HW and SW. they are basically saying we have no further interest into enterprise
Speaking strictly about FCP, and from my observations and experiences, I'd say centralized storage is used by a minority of FCP's 1.5 million registered users (I think FCP is up to 1.5 million now). FCP is most popular with the low end and middle segments of the industry and enterprise level solutions are beyond the scope and cost of most of these users. For most just buying more local storage (internal or external) and 'sneaker netting' footage if multi-editor collaboration is required is a more simple and less expensive option. For those that do need to venture into this realm though there are turnkey solutions such as EditShare that are probably more popular than Apple's offerings (again due to price and easy of use). Of course once you get into higher end companies that have invested in FCP (such as CNN, 21st Century FOX, Bunim/Murray Productions, etc.,.) they will have more of the resources and infrastructure to go more 'all out' when it comes to shared storage. Even going all out doesn't mean needing hundreds of seats. 20 or 30 edit bays running full time is a pretty big, pretty busy facility. There are bigger ones out there but they aren't very common at all if you are looking at the world of post production as a whole.

Not to state the obviously but the loss of Xserves could a big deal to companies that have built their shared storage around Apple's xSan and/or spent the time and money it takes to hand code Final Cut Server into something useful. Those are still just the minority of the user base though. Where I'm at we very Mac centric so our production technology guys are a little word about the upgrade path for our three xSans (around 140TB of combined storage). Hopefully Apple will reveal alternatives in the future so that companies that have invested hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, won't be up a creek but who knows. Apple doesn't release roadmaps and relatively soon people will maintaining these systems will have to decide what their alternatives are.

For Avid users I've found that centralized storage is more often utilized and I think it's that way for a few reasons. Avid is still dominant with the higher-end (bigger budget) productions, Avid software is better designed for multi-user environments (FCP is basically a single-user product that can be shoehorned into multi-user situations), and Avid makes first party, shared storage systems (Unity and ISIS) that are purpose built for post production. Avid has even qualified FCP for use on it's Unity and ISIS systems.


Lethal
 
I disagree with the "apple is abandoning enterprise market to focus on consumer market".

They made most of their money from consumer market and as it seems they dominate many other companies who had been leading consumer markets in the past, but this is no reason to pull off the enterprise market.
Actually I believe that now is the best time to step in deeper, because the ones who make the decisions about what to buy for a company, can be influenced from what they bought for themselves.
And if they have a nice experience from their iphones and their imacs then they will most likely feel comfortably to get some mac servers as well, to make their life easier.

Maybe they are pulling it back because they are planing to introduce something new to cover this area, maybe some real server capabilities macmini? Imagine the power and space savings from something like that.

Is there a rack conversion kit for the Mac Pro? Would it even fit in a rack? Is it to tall to be laid on its side in a rack?

Measured: Yep, it's 20" tall with the funky handle/feet. Will there be a way to take that outer skin off and rack it? Enterprise folks love rack mountable hardware. If it can't rack, it's a pain in the butt...

I saw an Xserve at Arecibo in Puerto Rico. They had one on loan from Apple and were trying to use it to replace some of the Linux boxes they were using at the time. Evidently they were having issues with some part of OS X that was crippling their real time functionality. At the time I saw it, they were going to send it back and declare it hopeless. They wanted to cluster a number of them together...

But anyway...

I have three Windows servers running and would very much like to replace one or two of them with an Xserver now that we're mostly mac...
 
Agree absolutely. Apple could partner with an HP or SGI on this.

I didn't realize that SGI was still in business...

Sun (Oracle) is out of the question I'm sure. Well, unless Ellison wants to sell Sun's hardware business to Jobs...

BTW, wouldn't an Apple - Sun marriage have made some sense? Maybe not... I just liked Sun hardware...
 
I didn't realize that SGI was still in business...

Rackable bought SGI, has maintained and enhanced some product lines, and then adopted its name. But, management and pricing are Rackable. SGI (Rackable) has very cost-competitive servers.

Sun (Oracle) is out of the question I'm sure. Well, unless Ellison wants to sell Sun's hardware business to Jobs...

BTW, wouldn't an Apple - Sun marriage have made some sense? Maybe not... I just liked Sun hardware...

Yeah, me too. I thought maybe Apple would buy it, but, I guess they felt they just couldn't merge the very different cultures.
 
A Mac Pro server might work well for a small business that just has a server in the corner, but that is all.

im sorry but a macpro wouldnt work good in any server related field, it doesnt even use enterprise grade SATA drives, what a waste of time, no onsite support, let alone 4 hour onsite.

if you want your business to go under and loose all your data, then you get a macpro.
 
Apple should acquire Oracle and CRAY

I can see Ellison and Oracle's key investors buying into an Apple acquisition just for the pure simple fact that if Apple were interested in productizing their cloud solutions for business it would open up a large new media storage market for them that they could get their foot in the door without disturbing their current offerings. Face facts...it's been a long time since SUN has been the defacto standard of the web traffic, but Apple could get them and Oracle, by default, back in there. Apple would get ZFS which they've been interested in fir a long time and would be a huge bonus for all of the expanding needs Apple is having as far as media deployment and developing solutions for that.

Acquiring CRAY would be a huge long term benefit as well, because CRAY has effectively shifted their core competency from processor/OS development to extreme OS/Multicore/Manycore and scalable efficiencies. Their UNICOS developments have been nothing short of amazing. The developments of UNICOS dovetails perfect with an Apple/Oracle server oriented agenda and would give CRAY the kind of development resources that would allow them to expand their resources to push the edge further and put the US back on top of the SuperComputing hill...quickly and probably permanently.
 
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I can see Ellison and Oracle's key investors buying into an Apple acquisition just for the pure simple fact that if Apple were interested in productizing their cloud solutions for business it would open up a large new media storage market for them that they could get their foot in the door without disturbing their current offerings. Face facts...it's been a long time since SUN has been the defacto standard of the web traffic, but Apple could get them and Oracle, by default, back in there. Apple would get ZFS which they've been interested in fir a long time and would be a huge bonus for all of the expanding needs Apple is having as far as media deployment and developing solutions for that.

Acquiring CRAY would be a huge long term benefit as well, because CRAY has effectively shifted their core competency from processor/OS development to extreme OS/Multicore/Manycore and scalable efficiencies. Their UNICOS developments have been nothing short of amazing. The developments of UNICOS dovetails perfect with and Apple/Oracle agenda and would give CRAY the kind of development resources that would allow them to expand their resources to push the edge further and put the US back on top of the SuperComputing hill...quickly and probably permanently.

Yes, companies buying other companies to get into areas far outside their core competencies always works out swell. Oh, wait...
 
Everyone who signs the above petition should immediately purchase an Xserve. Perhaps if sales were to hit record levels this quarter, Steve-o will keep them around. Absent massive sales this year, I doubt seriously the will stay, regardless how many sign the petition.

There's no guarantee that this would do anything as the product is already officially canceled. Since they haven't redesigned the case since it's inception, outside for tweaks and they are using the same hardware parts as the MacPro for the most part I don't get the cancellation. They just don't like the level of support they have to provide and that sucks rocks.
 
Yes, companies buying other companies to get into areas far outside their core competencies always works out swell. Oh, wait...


It's worked pretty well for Apple so far... (NeXT, original iPod OS, Final Cut and all related Media company acquisitions, PA-SEMI, iAd etc., etc. it's a pretty longlist)
 
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