I'm assuming you're looking at old or poorly written java code? Or, you're just pretending to know what's going on based on old information? As of Java 6, java can be as fast or faster than C. I'm sick of this misinformation. You know what, if Java isn't fast enough, COBOL IT. Even C isn't fast enough for the ultra high frequency. Let's go hit up mainframe.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Discontinuing Java Installation Packages for Mac OS X?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I'm assuming you're looking at old or poorly written java code? Or, you're just pretending to know what's going on based on old information? As of Java 6, java can be as fast or faster than C. I'm sick of this misinformation. You know what, if Java isn't fast enough, COBOL IT. Even C isn't fast enough for the ultra high frequency. Let's go hit up mainframe.
You've no idea what you're talking about. C, .Net are compiled into binaries. Java gets compiled into bytecode and then gets interpreted.
.Net, Java, and C are all extraordinarily similar in terms of syntax. Java doesn't use native windows APIs thus making it easier to read. If you don't understand that they're even all in the same class/family of languages, go back to VB. You're being ridiculous and I hope you're not in charge of any real programming team, let alone be a programmer yourself.
I think it's hilarious people are threatening to move to Windows because Apple is no longer maintaining their own build of Java.
Microsoft used to include their own JVM but stopped doing it years ago. How is that any different than this? Oracle knows how to build their own software.
Microsoft used to include their own JVM but stopped doing it years ago. How is that any different than this? Oracle knows how to build their own software.
Well, the Java standards are open so I doubt the language would die at this point, no matter what Oracle did. Oracle's fumbling recently kinda reminds me of the XFree86/Xorg debacle.
As for the "Sun Kool-Aid", I just got home from spending 5 hrs configuring a Cray CX-1 with 72 Intel cores and 2 Nvidia Tesla cards in it to run Debian Linux to primarily run programs written in C and Fortran. I'm now working on getting OpenMPI to compile on a few different ARM-based machines I have to test some other C code. My point with that being I use a huge variety of hardware and OSs, every day, and I'm hardly a Sun fanatic when it comes to vendors or their software.
Whatever you may think though, Java is neither dying nor unimportant, and deprecating it will harm a portion of Apple's installed userbase, myself included.
You just entirely missed the point of his post, which was that the *devs* use OSX for their desktop while coding for those servers. Almost all of the code I write, no matter the language, runs on linux based clusters, but I write it on a mac.
Or you could just hand code in TextWrangler like I do. Development environments are NOT essential for web developers. If ever there's a misleading statement, it's that one.
Maybe I'm crazy, but all I want is code highlighting and easy text manipulation. I don't need/want anything else.
Personally, I loathe the fact that Java is getting taught more than C in schools these days. In my opinion, it leads to lazy programming. I'm glad to see this move. Oracle will end up supporting it. It'll still be taught everywhere and nothing else will change. So if you absolutely need it, stop worrying.
The best part is that it'll make it a lot less likely that I'll come upon it since you won't be able to rely on it being installed. And for that, I thank Apple.
It depends on the code you work on. A lot of the time I'm perfectly happy with vim as a dev environment if need be, but sometimes when you're dealing with large, complex projects, particularly ones where you're one of dozens if not hundreds of devs contributing, a more robust IDE is *very* useful.
I know, I just wanted to throw it out there that it's not entirely important for everyone. I didn't want to be lumped into that category and I didn't want anyone out there to think that you need to use Eclipse to develop for the web.
Of course if everyone else is using an environment, you probably want to use one. Though BBEdit even handles CVS and I believe SVN so it all comes down to the way you work. Some people swear by Eclipse. I have no reason or desire to touch it.
Personally, I avoid using dev environments because I end up fussing around with them more than coding.
Indeed.
I cringe every time I watch developers for one of our products do things like "Sure, I can find out how that calling function works!" then they proceed to do a string comparison find through the entire source tree. "No... that's a comment... no... that function has the same name, but it's not the one we're looking for I think... Oh wow, that turned up a ton of matches..." etc.
Or "Sure the function name doesn't make any sense, but it'd be a pain to change it everywhere." Are you kidding?
When you're working on software that's been around longer than you've been in the workforce written by people a few generations prior to you, most that don't work there anymore or aren't even alive, you'll find there are a lot of things like that that aren't in your control.
A good tool helps make sense of it all and allows you to more easily correct those situations. We don't all get to write our own perfect apps from scratch and maintain them by ourselves.
When you're working on software that's been around longer than you've been in the workforce written by people a few generations prior to you, most that don't work there anymore or aren't even alive, you'll find there are a lot of things like that that aren't in your control.
A good tool helps make sense of it all and allows you to more easily correct those situations. We don't all get to write our own perfect apps from scratch and maintain them by ourselves.
I know, I'm talking about modern code.
Your example sounded like it was more recent code to me for some reason.A lot of the things they did in the past were due to the limitations of their systems. That's the one place where the "it made sense at the time" excuse is valid.
That applies to a lot of old things. It's one of the reasons that video in the US was 29.97fps instead of 30fps.
I know, I'm talking about modern code.
A lot of the things they did in the past were due to the limitations of their systems. That's the one place where the "it made sense at the time" excuse is valid.
That applies to a lot of old things. It's one of the reasons that video in the US was 29.97fps instead of 30fps.
Even in modern code I could easily see something like the function name not making sense in a matter of months on a single project written from scratch with only a small team working on it.
Hell I have put code in projects I have turned into school that the function name very little since but again I was it was more trouble than it was worth to go back and change the name everywhere. That happen in less than 1 week on a fairly simple program and I had to gut a function to fix a mistake I made in it. By the time it was done the name had no relationship to what it really did but I was not going to go back and change the 5 or 6 times I had called already under the other name.
So if that is happening to me on a single simple project that I was working on for class I can easily see it happening on a modern large scale project.
You are probably one of the few install bases that can run Flash and Java without much lag. That is if you can vectorize those VMs properly.
Ever use that rig to impress chicks? I know a few that would cream over it.
The 90's will be over when Obama is out of the White House and private mortgage finance is back.
I suppose that can happen when you're being quick or you've got a team.
I mostly code for myself, or with a friend, so I don't have many hands in the pot. I also make it a point to update my code regularly. I update function names if their function changes. I don't wait. It saves me a lot of time in the long run.
Early on I ran with it and didn't make those changes. Now I do. Because of that, I can still go back to code that I wrote months ago and understand, with little effort, what I was doing.
I also design my code—as much as possible—to keep everything in one place so that I have to make as few changes as possible. I mostly write in PHP, so a lot of the stuff is multiple small functions in my library that are called by one main function. The main code on my pages refers back to the main function in the library. It's highly unlikely that those names will change, so I really only have to make changes in one place. Find and replace makes that easy (and TextWrangler supports PCRE if it gets hairy so there's never a problem).
For instance, I might have a function called display_movie() on a page. display_movie() would instantiate my db class, grab the movie's information, then it might call a helper function to put a quicktime movie on the page, and then call another function to put in any details that belong to the movie (because images use the same function). You get the idea. It doesn't matter what I do to anything else, display_movie() will always be display_movie(). And because of that, all of my code can be contained in one place.
Hey, that's a small cluster, if I want to impress chicks I tell them about the *big* machines...
...and then my g/f tells me to shut up and stop being a dork
First, you just pulled the "ZOMG, X11 will be the next thing to go away!" completely out of your rear end, without any substantiation, just to have a strawman to push down a slippery slope.
Second, if you ever actually used X11 on OSX, you'd know what a turd it is and wouldn't be clamoring to make sure it didn't go away. You be clamoring to have Apple fix it, or have someone else write a better one or design a better solution!
Last, how many rocket scientists will go without food and water if your made-up logical fallacy were to actually come true? How many kittens will God kill if Teh Steve isn't pulled back from the brink?
If you won't do it for us, at least do it for the children!
Watch Apple back down when Mac developers who integrate Macs into corporate environments start complaining. People forget that Java is heavily used in corporate environments for writing custom apps, and you don't want Macs to become second-class citizens in corporate environments.
I just gave you one example of how easy it can happen. Another common time the function names stop making sense is when you are recycling code. It just gets messy really quickly and it is more trouble than it is worth to go back and clean up the names.
One thing to remember is you do not have to know how a block of code works to know how to use it.