Apple Discontinuing Java Installation Packages for Mac OS X?

[parapup]

2011: Bootcamp.

2012: 3rd party apps distributed outside of Mac App Store

2013:

"Since objective-C is such a great language, we have decided that any applications not written in objective-C utilizing Cocoa in the Xcode IDE cannot be installed in the next OS X version."

2014:

"From now on, whenever somebody purchases Apple Hardware, they'll be required to pay a monthly rental fee for OS X. All their purchases are virtual and controlled by Apple. This enables people to be really creative in choosing which of the pre-approved applications they would like to buy today. And it makes for such a clean, comfy and family-friendly environment."

[snip]

For many here the above may sound like fiction - but I wouldn't be surprised if the above quoted things actually happened - just may be it will take a little longer.

I am not certain about the Jobs death though - I am sure there is a plan in place to replace all of his ailing body parts - they started with the liver already

May be there even is a plan in place to manufacture tiny replicas of him that will be shipped with all things Apple sells - to police on you...

 

[racketeer71]

Then let Apple and every other company use Linux based servers; obviously that is the solution that works and that almost every company uses anyway. We don't hate java, we just don't care if you can't run Java apps on Mac.

The problem, which a lot of people have tried to point out in this thread, is that if the Java developers can't use OS X for Java (server application) development they'll jump to another platform.

They'll talk to other people, who might get second thoughts about Apple as well. And then you have a downward spiral going.

4 years ago I wouldn't have dreamt of buying a mac. But suddenly they made an influx in the developer communities I was involved with. A lot of people recommended OS X because of the tools available to a web developer - not because they wanted to program in obj-c at all. I bought an MBP, which was followed up with a MB for the wife, an iPhone, a new MBP for myself, a 27" ACD and a ton of Apple software. And I've recommended Apple products to everybody.

But now, with Apple frequently provoking developers that doesn't "get it" and doesn't subscribe to Apples close-minded world, they're playing with fire. They talk about open, but closes up their world more and more.

I did not leave the Microsoft dictatorship to enter an even worse.

Apple might pull it off. They might have a great future with consumers that wish to be spoon-fed pre-approved applications. Or they might alienate the pros to such a degree, that bad press eventually will force them to relax they're position on people that /think different/.

 

[racketeer71]

Where OS X is used quite heavily for Java is by Java developers, but if Oracle don't support Java on OS X, the Java developers who currently use OS X aren't going to stop developing for Java, they're going to stop using OS X.

This hits the nail on the head. Oracle knows that people developing for Java is doing so most often to make a living. And I think that Oracle consider developers a "ressource" equivalent to a workhorse, a store clerk or similar, that can simply be told what to do. So it's easy, in their eyes: Employers will simply tell their developers that OS X is no longer an option.

 

[amanset]

Firstly, Java is not disappearing. Come on. If anything, Oracle will take over it.

Secondly, it is true. Most people probably don't use Java at home. However, in a business environment - and I am not talking server side here - Java is a lot more common. I personally use Oracle SQL Developer and Cisco Network Assistant a lot, both of which are Java apps. There are many Java client apps for connecting to servers and believe it or not, the concept of the Java applet hasn't gone away, it just went away from normal home users. As an example, EMC's client interface to corporate SAN systems is a Java applet running in a browser. Many, many financial systems use Java clients to connect to a server. It is still commonly seen in business.

So getting rid of Java on OSX would effectively mean giving up on getting the Mac into a business environment.

The only thing that worries me is the closing down of OSX so you can only run apps downloaded via the store. I've got a horrible feeling that is the way Apple is going and it scares me for many, many reasons.

 

[bryanck]

I decided to post on the Apple forums about my displeasure about these turn of events, stating I could not buy a Mac if it no longer has a viable JDK (I do most programming in Java for work). Of course it was deleted by Apple saying it was classified as a "rant", despite being rather mildly worded. I am actually starting to see the light a bit, perhaps the haters aren't so wrong about Apple after all...

 

[dcorby23]

I didn't have the experience of being deleted at Apple forums but had the same thought about haters after reading the news.

 

[revelated]

I cringe when I come across folks who like to program Java, because it's a specialized language. Compiled files and whatnot. If that person leaves the company and didn't bother documenting what he/she did, it creates all sorts of headaches. Compared to C and .NET developers who are a dime a dozen.

 

[amanset]

I cringe when I come across folks who like to program Java, because it's a specialized language. Compiled files and whatnot. If that person leaves the company and didn't bother documenting what he/she did, it creates all sorts of headaches. Compared to C and .NET developers who are a dime a dozen.

You what?

 

[dampfdruck]

I hope they have an agreement in place with Oracle. If not, then this would be the end of OSX in enterprise environments. It beats me as to why Apple is doing this just now as more and more OSX machines appear on corporate desks.

In any case, the way this is communicated by Apple is unacceptable. This should be announced properly and with sufficient lead time so companies can adopt and make the necessary changes (== transition to Windows machines).

 

[cdmoore74]

Just the beginning boys and girls. 5 years from now you will be buying angry birds on a closed operating system. The fisher price of OS's for soccer moms and 10 year olds willing to fill Steve Jobs pockets.

 

[Hastings101]

Just the beginning boys and girls. 5 years from now you will be buying angry birds on a closed operating system. The fisher price of OS's for soccer moms and 10 year olds willing to fill Steve Jobs pockets.

5 years from now I'll probably be using Windows 8, and OS X computers won't exist outside of iDevices

 

[Harmush]

No one worry.

Java will be fine, and Sun can push updates if they wish. I bet if they asked nicely and did all the work, Apple would still let them use Software Update.

To be completely honest. I didn't even realise they didn't release the updates themselves anyway.

 

[TheGraphicMac]

I kind of suspect that Adobe AIR is the new "cross platform" tool. Java apps always ran horribly on the Mac anyway.

 

[umerakawaru]

Without Java, I'll go to Windows.

The whole reason I went with Mac 15 years ago was the dedication of Apple to open standards and fair competition. I've owned Apple II, Amiga, then Macs to protest Microsoft but Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft everyday. As a Java developer, I'll switch to Windows computers in a heartbeat if Java is not supported on the Mac, simply to protest.

 

[Mike1984]

5 years from now I'll probably be using Windows 8, and OS X computers won't exist outside of iDevices

I'm beginning to think you're right. This is the beginning of Apple Dropping OS X and any device that's not a light weight vanity appliance.

Nothing important is in Lion. It's just too expensive to compete with Linux and Windows, I guess. Except that they were bringing Apple a lot of profit.

Apple high Lighted MacBook Air, but they also updated MacBook Pro without a word.
It's almost as if you're NOT Supposed to by the Real Computers.

 

[Mike1984]

It means a Mac Never Get's to be on the Corporate Desktop. As there's no justification. Apple has again allowed the arguments of Mac's being the "Toy OS" to come to be true.

With just a 20% install base, no one is going to write obj-c, and then write a C# desktop app. There will only be one app: C#. Java will suffer, and Macs become irrelevant.

Steve Jobs must think that Apple got into Corporate America via the "Competent" Manager, who only knows Email. That's not how it happened Steve. It came in through the Developers in IT. It will leave the same way.

 

[richman555]

As a Java developer with a relatively new i7 Macbook Pro, I cannot believe Apple would do this.... what are they thinking?

I hope Oracle picks up the slack here.

 

[richman555]

I guess there is always the option of using bootcamp, vmware or parallels.

 

[CFreymarc]

WTF are you talking about? The JVM was clunky many many years ago in initially releases, these days it's pretty much negligible unless you're doing something that requires you to work right on the metal.

...

All I can gather from your post is that you've never been involved in any way, shape, or form with any form of software development.

Keep drinking that Sun Kool-Aide. The death of Java will just be one big tax write off for Larry. Mark my words.

 

[CFreymarc]

This is not what computers should be:

That is what it will be. There is a huge gap of want-to-use-simple vs. hardcore-want-all-the-open-source. I see in the next ten years a very big 80 / 20 split between simple to use computer systems vs. the hardcore open source systems. When Microsoft becomes irrelevant, there will be no middle ground.

You better be good technically or end up roadkill to ease of use APIs that if you are not in the right secret society, you will not have access to. Mark my words.

Besides, those kids in that photo probably have better UI design ideas than you do.

 

[xristy]

I kind of suspect that Adobe AIR is the new "cross platform" tool. Java apps always ran horribly on the Mac anyway.

I'm confused about this. I use Eclipse - currently Helios 3.6, and many other Java apps on a MacBook Pro 10.6.4 as well as on Windows XP and 7 and it seems to me that in day-to-day use Java runs very well on all these platforms and has good stability and performance.

What are these apps that always "ran horribly" which seems like in the past - 5 years ago?

 

[CFreymarc]

As people have stated Java is generally used for server side development not client based. You are coming at this from the wrong angle.

On the contrary, it is spot on. The sever end has processing time and power to burn literally. Clunkey code like Java works there. The client end is the great comeback of native code. If you don't embrace native code on the client end, become roadkill. This killed Palm, Java and the next victim on the chop-chop block, WP7.

 

[javierbds]

Time to move on (to the land of the free)

First they came for the HyperCard guys,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a HyperCard developer

Then they came for the PowerPC guys,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a PowerPC guru.

Then they came for the Java guys,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Java user (that I knew).

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Those who give up their freedom for more security will neither get liberty nor security.

 

[wolfenkraft]

Java is like Flash and sucks. That's why Android supports it.

If you want to develop for the Mac use the Apple SDK and no cross platforming ****! If you don't then you won't be allowed to sell your crappy software through the AppStore! Say good bye you all crappy cross platform developers. Thumbs up!

I'm guessing you're just toeing the party line and all but, guess what... I could give 2 craps about your precious little app store. I need my mac to run java so I can write the software that makes sure you can keep track of all of your precious "app store earnings" in a reasonable manner so when you retire you're not broke.

Believe it or not, I write in Obj-C with the apple sdk when I do iphone dev, but, that's about 5% of my time. The rest is writing complex business applications used by millions of people every day. This software is responsible for real money on the order of billions or on a really high frequency day trillions. That's what java is used for. Not your precious little gui apps that let you take pictures of your friends and apply simple effects. No. I do not care about that. Apple HIG don't really affect what I do... Your argument is silly and just carries over from the fact that android is also written in java.

 

[eeyoredragon]

I cringe when I come across folks who like to program Java, because it's a specialized language. Compiled files and whatnot. If that person leaves the company and didn't bother documenting what he/she did, it creates all sorts of headaches. Compared to C and .NET developers who are a dime a dozen.

If your .NET programmers can't figure Java code out, you should fire them.

I have no problems understanding what programs are doing written in a wide variety of programming languages, and I'm not a rockstar programmer by any means.

Specialized language... "compiled files"?


You know why I hate Java? The bytecode interferes with the optimization of polymorphic interface classes. And the garbage collector never gets all the beans out of the container.

Herp derp.