This is exactly where I see the mac heading with almost 100% certainty. Lion just about confirmed it.
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Apple Discontinuing Java Installation Packages for Mac OS X?
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This is exactly where I see the mac heading with almost 100% certainty. Lion just about confirmed it.
Remove Java support, and remove carbon support, and all of a sudden the only way to program in OS X is by using Cocoa.
Once Cocoa is the only ide, it'll be quite easy for Apple to block applications from running unless they have an app store cert.
yes, this is the way of the future.
Once Cocoa is the only ide, it'll be quite easy for Apple to block applications from running unless they have an app store cert.
yes, this is the way of the future.
Java should die for home use applications, but it has very strong business usage/server usage.
Apple is killing anything that will get between Apple customers and the desktop app store. Flash, Java, whatever... it will be gone inside a year.
(case-in-point: the new MB Airs ship w/o Flash. Also, any Flash suggestions or complaints at the Apple forums get deleted almost immediately)
(case-in-point: the new MB Airs ship w/o Flash. Also, any Flash suggestions or complaints at the Apple forums get deleted almost immediately)
Am I the only one who finds comments like this one I quoted to be a huge example on why people believe Apple fans are clueless Zombies who can not think for themselves. Thus making their opinions worthless.
I hate seeming them because it just makes anyone who likes apple though of as clueless and I happen to like quit a few Apple products.
So if I have this right, Apple started doing this because Oracle didn't care enough about the Mac to do it themselves. Right?
Now that the Mac is important, is Apple perhaps just saying "hey, do for us what you do for Windows" on the assumption that they can't say no anymore?
Now that the Mac is important, is Apple perhaps just saying "hey, do for us what you do for Windows" on the assumption that they can't say no anymore?
Oracle will fill in the void. I'm sure the only reason Apple did it themselves was because they had relatively small market share at the time. The key difference is that Java will no longer be preinstalled. Same as Windows.
hey everybody calm down ... microsoft had its own java vm years ago and dropped it. the result was good.
also, please stay on topic and don't drift into some appstore conspiracies
calm down ... microsoft had its own java vm years ago and dropped it. the result was good. also, please stay on topic and don't drift into some appstore conspiracies
IMHO removing Flash/Java is a very good thing. Apple should not be be bundling any of these third party runtime dependencies as core OS components. The practice introduced a significant lag in OSX receiving critical security and compatibility updates. As users, we are better off letting Adobe/Oracle/etc producing and distribute their own runtimes.
As for App store requirements; it makes sense that Apple would want Apps to be self contained and not require the prior installation of third party components. That said, it reads to me as if you could use a third party runtimes like Flash or Java, but you will need to include the required files in your drop.
As for App store requirements; it makes sense that Apple would want Apps to be self contained and not require the prior installation of third party components. That said, it reads to me as if you could use a third party runtimes like Flash or Java, but you will need to include the required files in your drop.
As a user I don't really care all that much...
As someone with developer background I can see plenty of negatives to this, and I'm more than just a little bit surprised...
As someone with developer background I can see plenty of negatives to this, and I'm more than just a little bit surprised...
Depreciation of Java support feels like a back stabbing from Apple, since it was a major reason why I moved to Mac OS and use it for Java development because they did a great support for it.
Also a statement that SJ is truly a control freak, hence the mac os app store and this news.
Also a statement that SJ is truly a control freak, hence the mac os app store and this news.
Enterprise Users !
To me this is where Apple abandons and falls short of being Enterprise Class machinery. We are an all Mac Office from the Servers to the Phones and are linked to corporate which is all PC. Our time tracking program from corporate is JAVA web based ap. and it only started working with the last JAVA update.
Trouble shooting was a nightmare and the only saving grace was the developer,
Sage, claimed it was MAC COMPATIBLE, which led them to investigate.
Running an Xserve blows away Windows 2008 any day but email , on the Apple platform FAILS. And now that Outlook is coming to the Mac they need to step up. It could be so much better with just a tad more attention.
To me this is where Apple abandons and falls short of being Enterprise Class machinery. We are an all Mac Office from the Servers to the Phones and are linked to corporate which is all PC. Our time tracking program from corporate is JAVA web based ap. and it only started working with the last JAVA update.
Trouble shooting was a nightmare and the only saving grace was the developer,
Sage, claimed it was MAC COMPATIBLE, which led them to investigate.
Running an Xserve blows away Windows 2008 any day but email , on the Apple platform FAILS. And now that Outlook is coming to the Mac they need to step up. It could be so much better with just a tad more attention.
Well this really sucks. No more JavaVM for OS X (to those that think Oracle will just suddenly develop one, keep dreaming), meaning fewer cross-platform applications and no more web applet support.
You know, widespread standards compatibility is what made OS X popular to begin with. Now that Apple is killing off all cross-platform library support and attempting to make OS X as proprietary and closed-off as possible, it is slowing ensuring OS X's ultimate demise. For example, losing the JavaVM kills support for a whole host of scientific applications. So Apple is going to lose that market quickly.
I assume that Qt, Tcl/Tk and Python are next on the chopping block.
You know, widespread standards compatibility is what made OS X popular to begin with. Now that Apple is killing off all cross-platform library support and attempting to make OS X as proprietary and closed-off as possible, it is slowing ensuring OS X's ultimate demise. For example, losing the JavaVM kills support for a whole host of scientific applications. So Apple is going to lose that market quickly.
I assume that Qt, Tcl/Tk and Python are next on the chopping block.
Remove Java support, and remove carbon support, and all of a sudden the only way to program in OS X is by using Cocoa.
Once Cocoa is the only ide, it'll be quite easy for Apple to block applications from running unless they have an app store cert.
yes, this is the way of the future.
Those who are writing Carbon apps have no business writing an application at this point. Java is not Apple's framework, so they should not be responsible for installing and distributing it. Oracle/Sun will step in and quickly do this since it is in their best interest to do so.
You will be able to install apps outside of the App Store. The future is not bleak, but actually rosy.
I agree!
I agree!
Seriously.. who cares about Java? Java is dying.. and becoming a niche technology. Write once, run everwhere is a dream. Move on guys. Apple should focus on their technology only and remove all these heavy and flawly stuff (Flash, Java, etc). You will still be able to add these things later! The problem is that 90% off the normal users don't need Java in their machines.. simple like that. Java is good for enterprise users, server and other backend stuff.
Why wouldn't Oracle be happy about this? They produce Java for every other platform already. Why make OSXthe exception.
Check for installed dependencies. Or all d/loads will become humongous and largely duplicative or attempting to install old versions over newer.
No: Apple is killing any technology that offers competition and threatens its bottom line.
Very dickish, and not consumer-oriented.
Anytime Apple is behind on a tech, or drops it, or locks it out, this is the answer. Does it get uncomfortable with Jobs pulling your strings? Sheesh.