Apple Distributing Safari for Windows via iTunes

[lowbatteries]

Quicktime is required for the Media, Safari for the web

iTunes comes bundled with Quicktime, because quicktime is required to play the media that goes on iPods. Now with iPod Touches and iPhones, there is also the "real" internet on iPods. So its safe to assume if people want the "real" internet on their handheld, they'd want it on their computer. If Apple even suggested people use Internet Explorer(Destroyer) to use the internet that would be irresponsible.

iTunes give you a way to access your music, Safari gives you a reasonable way to access the internet. I don't see this as them pushing brand new software to you, but a new arm of "the digital hub" which is what Apple is all about.

 

[Kwill]

I disagree. It's not hard at all to go to apple.com and download safari if I so desired.

For most PC users, visiting the Apple web site is tantamount to a man entering Victoria Secret to shop for underwear. They just don't make the connection between a PC running Windows and the need to visit Apple, which is for Macs.

Several times, Windows users were amazed to learn they could download iTunes for their PC. Then they ask, from where? Where do you think? From Apple. OK, to make it easy, just type "apple.com/iTunes" in your browser location field. Type "apple.com/safari" to get the Safari browser.

Even with the links, novice computer users may be intimidated by the thought "downloading" and "installing software." By simplifying the process here, Apple makes it easy for users to compare the benefits of the Safari browser without relying on a Mac user to tell them how to get it for their PC.

 

[HLdan]

Disappointed in MR members

Wow, I am really disappointed in the MR members who are upset about Apple pushing Safari to Windows users via iTunes. This is a wonderful idea and it definitely helps the Mac community. Apple pushing Safari to the Windows world will definitely get more web developers to consider using Safari when building or rebuilding their websites so now Mac users can go to those sites and use Safari and we won't be graced with that ugly message "THIS SITE WILL ONLY WORK WITH A WINDOWS PC USING INTERNET EXPLORER". Sound familiar?
This is exactly what Bill Gates did, he pushed Windows in our faces which is why most of the world is forced to use it. It was a great strategy and Apple can't have the Macintosh as the underdog forever so please people on this forum understand the benefit of it for us Mac users or anyone using any other browser besides the dreaded I.E. We don't want to be slave to I.E. forever.

 

[slu]

How in the world could anyone rate this as a negative?

More safari users the better. This is a good way of letting people know that Safari for Windows even exists. Anything to get people off IE, I say!

 

[pohl]

Okay, I thought only the most desperate software companies used this technique.. to "bundle" some random 3rd-party "partner's" app in with the stuff the user actually wants. It's called "shovelware"

Wait a minute. "3rd party" has a meaning you know: A third-party developer is a developer not directly tied to the primary product that a consumer is using. (The primary product may be hardware or software.) In this case, the primary product is iTunes, making Apple the 1st party. Offering another product in the 1st party's line is neither random nor 3rd. Sheesh, people are really stretching the truth to make this look shady.

The definition of shovelware doesn't even match your useage, because it's only one, high-quality program (rather than numerous, low-quality programs).

 

[gkarris]

Wow, I am really disappointed in the MR members who are upset about Apple pushing Safari to Windows users via iTunes. This is a wonderful idea and it definitely helps the Mac community. Apple pushing Safari to the Windows world will definitely get more web developers to consider using Safari when building or rebuilding their websites so now Mac users can go to those sites and use Safari and we won't be graced with that ugly message "THIS SITE WILL ONLY WORK WITH A WINDOWS PC USING INTERNET EXPLORER". Sound familiar?
This is exactly what Bill Gates did, he pushed Windows in our faces which is why most of the world is forced to use it. It was a great strategy and Apple can't have the Macintosh as the underdog forever so please people on this forum understand the benefit of it for us Mac users or anyone using any other browser besides the dreaded I.E. We don't want to be slave to I.E. forever.

Yes, I used to think this was bad but it helps PC developers test their websites for Safari and their webapps for Safari on the iPhone.

The new Safari on Windows is much, much, better than previous versions and will probably use it more and more...

 

[Eraserhead]

How in the world could anyone rate this as a negative?

Because it is a little unethical. You aren't really updating software you already have.

For most PC users, visiting the Apple web site is tantamount to a man entering Victoria Secret to shop for underwear. They just don't make the connection between a PC running Windows and the need to visit Apple, which is for Macs.

Several times, Windows users were amazed to learn they could download iTunes for their PC. Then they ask, from where? Where do you think? From Apple. OK, to make it easy, just type "apple.com/iTunes" in your browser location field. Type "apple.com/safari" to get the Safari browser.

Even with the links, novice computer users may be intimidated by the thought "downloading" and "installing software." By simplifying the process here, Apple makes it easy for users to compare the benefits of the Safari browser without relying on a Mac user to tell them how to get it for their PC.

This is probably the best point in the thread. They probably get intimidated about installing software as we tell them not to download from random places, and if people keep pushing you dodgy stuff you generally don't get anything at all. I hadn't thought of it like that actually.

 

[ungraphic]

This seems shady to me. People think they're just installing iTunes, but now Apple is piggy-backing more stuff to the install. It's bad enough they have to do it with Quicktime.

I agree. And quicktime sucks (VLC ftw)

 

[stagi]

I think its great, keep getting apple software in front of more people and hopefully when they are going to buy their next computer will give apple a good look

 

[slu]

Because it is a little unethical. You aren't really updating software you already have.

I see your point about it not being an update to software you already have, but I don't think that is an ethical problem so much as a semantic one. Are you saying if Apple changed the name of Software Update to something like Apple Software Download Service, then you would be fine with this?

And since Apple is not distributing software that is malicious or is not what it says it is, I fail to see how it is unethical. Especially since you are not required to download it.

And you don't need to use Software Update on Windows to use iTunes.

And how is this different from what they do with OS X software updates. There have been times when new apps have been added in the 10.X.X releases and I heard nobody complain that these weren't updates to software they already had. And those you couldn't even opt out of. You don't have to install Safari if you don't want to.

Sheesh, what is the downside for a Windows user? They have an extra browser on their machine that takes up next to no space? Oh the humanity!

 

[mahashel]

Upon thinking about this some more, I believe this has something to do with the philosophy of the platform itself.
Mac users are accustomed to consuming whatever Apple sends down the pipe to us. We're satisfied, for the most part, allowing Apple to update our Macs; *trusting* that all will be well.
Responsible Windows users, on the other hand, are used to playing the role of gatekeeper for their computers. They have to be cautious what software gets loaded, taking care to avoid installing random stuff. Not only because there can be security problems, but also because installing apps willy-nilly will slow Windows down to a crawl.
Thus, I think Mac users are kind of looking at this like "why wouldn't you want Apple's stuff?"... like we're personally offended that the Windows users are opting for the cautious route. Where, realistically, they must be vigilant in guarding their systems; and Apple's "here install this, trust us, just take it! Here, let me remind you again" becomes the nuisance we doom-sayers are making it out to be.

 

[Small White Car]

Sheesh, what is the downside for a Windows user? They have an extra browser on their machine that takes up next to no space? Oh the humanity!

On my work computer (PC) I need Quick Time. I'm constatnly getting bugged to instal iTunes and Safari.

I don't need them. Ok, fine. I'll download them just to get rid of the update. Well, first off, it sucks that I have to do that. And second, I still get the damn "Update me" notice every time they update one of the programs!

At home, OS X lets me click 'ignore' on updates I don't want. Why oh why can't I do that at work?

It's SPAM, plain and simple. Not only that, it's spam that pops up no matter what program I'm using!

Mac users are accustomed to consuming whatever Apple sends down the pipe to us.

Well, that's a nice theory except that I'm a Mac zealot who STILL hates the way Apple treats my Windows machine at work.

EDIT: I'M WRONG! You can ignore in the Windows version too! It was just harder to find since I'm a Windows-idiot.

Well, thanks, thread, for making me examine this more closely.

 

[zioxide]

what a load of crap.. this is something you would expect with real player, not apple software.

 

[slu]

On my work computer (PC) I need Quick Time. I'm constatnly getting bugged to instal iTunes and Safari.

I don't need them. Ok, fine. I'll download them just to get rid of the update. Well, first off, it sucks that I have to do that. And second, I still get the damn "Update me" notice every time they update one of the programs!

At home, OS X lets me click 'ignore' on updates I don't want. Why oh why can't I do that at work?

It's SPAM, plain and simple. Not only that, it's spam that pops up no matter what program I'm using!



Well, that's a nice theory except that I'm a Mac zealot who STILL hates the way Apple treats my Windows machine at work.

Why don't you turn off Software Update on your work PC then?

 

[Eraserhead]

On my work computer (PC) I need Quick Time. I'm constatnly getting bugged to instal iTunes and Safari.

I don't need them. Ok, fine. I'll download them just to get rid of the update. Well, first off, it sucks that I have to do that. And second, I still get the damn "Update me" notice every time they update one of the programs!

At home, OS X lets me click 'ignore' on updates I don't want. Why oh why can't I do that at work?

OS X Software Update behaves in exactly the same way as the Windows version does on this. If you don't use iTunes on OS X you still get pestered every time it is updated.

 

[balk]

Although I do not agree with this kind of app pushing, about the same is done in Mac OS X. It comes with Safari. Are we able to uninstall it? Don't know, never tried. After uninstall, will it be pushed upon you via software update? I am @ work now, so cannot test.

 

[DHUK]

I'm a Winders user and I used Firefox until a few days ago. I tried Safari for Windows when it was first released. Admittedly it was a little buggy so I went back to Firefox. I decided to try it again a few days ago and my goodness, they've turned Safari into a screamer! Nice one Apple. I suggest you give it a try.

 

[MidiMonk]

Apple is turning into the kind of company(ala Microsft) that most of us loathe.I am greatful for the ability to use Bootcamp and tried Safari, it sucks.Windoze Quicktime is weak and buggy overall, almost as if to make you want to switch to OSX.I cannot wait for the anti trust suits to roll in, its a matter of time.The bigger Apple gets arrogance level rises and QC falls to Dells level..

That's... not entirely accurate. I installed bootcamp, and was repeatedly asked to install iTunes, Quick time, and Safari, simply because I had the Apple Updater on my PC. It would do this about once a week too (every time it looked for updates) and it was annoying as anything!

Minus a zillion for such shady practices Apple, at least give users a way to permanently opt out. Maybe I WANT IE6 for some god-awful reason.

 

[Small White Car]

Why don't you turn off Software Update on your work PC then?

Isn't it lame that the answer to the problem is to just not use the software? It's very useful for Quicktime and I'd like to keep using it for that. And it's extra lame when the solution to the problem already exists! See here:

OS X Software Update behaves in exactly the same way as the Windows version does on this. If you don't use iTunes on OS X you still get pestered every time it is updated.

No, it doesn't. I can tell the Mac Software Update to "ignore" things I don't want it to check any more.

So it's done perfectly in OS X. It's not a complicated program. Surely they could make the Windows version work the same if they wanted to.

The fact that they don't shows that they're trying to force people to upgrade simply by being annoying.

It's very simple:
OS X update -> Great
Windows update -> SPAM-like

This isn't hard.

EDIT: I'M WRONG! You can ignore in the Windows version too! It was just harder to find since I'm a Windows-idiot.

Well, thanks, thread, for making me examine this more closely.

 

[t22design]

what a load of crap.. this is something you would expect with real player, not apple software.

Here here.

I don't think I would mind as much if there was a different section of "Apple Software Update" that showed programs available from Apple.

If you didn't have Safari installed on Windows, it could tell you it was available. However, it should not select it for installation by default, nor should it look like an update to software you have installed.

 

[mahashel]

Wait a minute. "3rd party" has a meaning you know: A third-party developer is a developer not directly tied to the primary product that a consumer is using. (The primary product may be hardware or software.) In this case, the primary product is iTunes, making Apple the 1st party. Offering another product in the 1st party's line is neither random nor 3rd. Sheesh, people are really stretching the truth to make this look shady.
The definition of shovelware doesn't even match your useage, because it's only one, high-quality program (rather than numerous, low-quality programs).

I'll give you the "3rd-party" thing. I think the word I'm really looking for here is "bundling".. although the catch is that I'm certain I don't care who the author is of the software that's being bundled, (1st or 3rd-party) so it's moot anyway. Could be Apple, Sun, Microsoft or EA.. if I don't want it, I don't want it.

As for "shovelware", I know what it means. On my Mac, Safari is great. It has to be.. it's bolted into OSX.
On my anal-retentively guarded Windows gaming system, however, Safari is not welcome; and Apple's nagging does not improve its chances of being installed. Same with iTunes. I use the Quicktime plugin, and that's it. To me, the iTunes+Quicktime and Safari options are shovelware. I don't want them on that computer and the fact that they pop up for installation whenever Apple revs the code is a nuisance.
I think what we're up against here is a clash between the "Apple's all-you-can-eat" Mac-user philosophy, versus the Windows "am I sure I want to install all this and gunk up my registry" philosophy. But alas, I tackle that in a different post.

 

[slu]

Isn't it lame that the answer to the problem is to just not use the software? It's very useful for Quicktime and I'd like to keep using it for that. And it's extra lame when the solution to the problem already exists! See here:



No, it doesn't. I can tell the Mac Software Update to "ignore" things I don't want it to check any more.

So it's done perfectly in OS X. It's not a complicated program. Surely they could make the Windows version work the same if they wanted to.

The fact that they don't shows that they're trying to force people to upgrade simply by being annoying.

It's very simple:
OS X update -> Great
Windows update -> SPAM-like

This isn't hard.

I am not sure about that in OS X. I will check when I get home, but in Tiger, on my iMac G5, they released a Sleep Light Update Program many moons ago that would just dim the sleep light at night. Now since my iMac is in my studio I didn't care how bright the light was and even though I unchecked the box to not install it, it still prompted me to install it every time Software Update checked for an update. That sounds like the same thing to me. I eventually installed it just to make it go away.

Also, Until very recently I used to use FCE 3.0. It wouldn't work with any quicktime version higher than 7.2 so I did the same thing for quicktime updates...and I was prompted to install those everytime software update checked for updates as well.

 

[Small White Car]

even though I unchecked the box to not install it, it still prompted me to install it every time Software Update checked for an update.

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_do_i_tell_software_update_to_ignore_programs.html

I dunno.

Is that what you did? Maybe it doesn't work as advertised? Although it sounds like you just un-checked the box, which just means "don't install this time." If that's all you did, then yes, it will come back. You have to actually choose "ignore" to make it go away for good.

As for the Quicktime thing, I wouldn't be shocked if you can't "ignore" it in OS X since Macs use Quicktime to play all media in the OS. On Windows, it's different because Windows doesn't depend on it. So I'd give them a pass on that one. Even if it's still annoying at least there's a reason for it.

EDIT: I'M WRONG! You can ignore in the Windows version too! It was just harder to find since I'm a Windows-idiot.

Well, thanks, thread, for making me examine this more closely.

 

[SFC Archer]

It is quite likely that Apple's plans for the iTunes App store will require Safari/Webkit so they are just preparing Windows users for that. It certainly seemed early on that the main purpose for Safari on Windows was to provide Windows based developers a platform for testing iPhone/iPT web apps....

B

I love my Apple gadgets (iPhone/iPod) and have grown to trust Apple. I don't even mind using iTunes/Quicktime for my media players/music management. However, I love my PC and all the great negatives that Mac users "think" happens on a PC. My PC runs clean and has no problems cause I take care of it just like a Mac user would...so I dont want to hear any of the "mine is better" BS.

I have now lost a lot of trust that I had in Apple because of this new safari BS and have already removed the Apple auto update software from my computer. I will update manually from here on out. If they do like you said above then it will be BY BY iTunes/Quicktime and I will just use Amazon and Firefox to take care of my music needs. I will NEVER go to Safari on a windows machine and the day they force me to is the day I go back. NOT A SMART MOVE Apple...there are more PC users using iTunes then Mac users...so beware.

Again, I still enjoy my apple products but I will NOT be forced to go one way or another.

 

[137489]

This seems shady to me. People think they're just installing iTunes, but now Apple is piggy-backing more stuff to the install. It's bad enough they have to do it with Quicktime.

I don't think it is that shady per say. well maybe, but Microsoft and other companies do it all the time - look at adware and google.

I think it is cool though, because now I do not have to install each one one by one and with all my testing thus far Safari is much superior to IE. Makes people want to try it and then more of a plug for apple producst.