Apple Does Deep Dive Into Security Protections and Risks With Alternative App Marketplaces

[Timo_Existencia]

As others have said here in various ways, your statement seems to carry with it the implication that iPhone users are naive idiots who need 'baby gates' installed by Apple, otherwise they will harm themsleves.
I guess in your world view we should have school crossing guards at every intersection of the country - since people can't understand how to be safe on their own.

Or, there are those of us who have chosen a walled system for specific reasons. Are you calling my child a "naive idiot" if I prefer she not have access to an open OS?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

So people here are just afraid of content?


I don’t know about the letter, but it certainly does not follow the spirit, which is what will count in court.

Good luck with that. I hope all your dreams of a Government-dictated OS come true for you.

 

[tobybrut]

Sorry for what is probably a dumb question, but how is FaceID sensitive data if developers, and even Apple I thought, don’t have access to it? Isn’t it all on device?

You are correct. The data that contains your face data is stored in the Secure Enclave and cannot be accessed by anyone, including Apple. Face ID is a service that apps can use by asking the OS to query for facial recognition. It’ll ask the OS to verify it. Face ID reads your face and compares it to data in the Secure Enclave, all done within it, and then returns a yes or no.

Face ID data is considered write-only and cannot be read by any entity outside Secure Enclave. It is as secure as it gets where no one can access it directly.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Ahh, that "dangerous sideloading"

You mean like how we "install Apps on macOS"?

Please

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Everyday Apple sounds more and more like Epic. I understand they are taking a hit with this, but at least be graceful in your fall.

News of Apple's death have been greatly exaggerated. Apple is not done with this fight.

 

[tobybrut]

Eh, I'm personally not concerned with the security ramifications. I stopped thinking that the App Store was safe after they consistently allow apps through that are clearly not safe.

You cannot let the perfect be the enemy of good. All systems are created and run by humans who make mistakes. The key is to minimize the holes so that human mistakes have less impact. I’ll use the example of a phishing email. click on a bad link in an email and you can completely infect your Mac. This cannot happen on iOS or iPadOS. Those systems are so protected against this that a virus cannot spread just by clicking links. I suspect I got my Mac hacked by accidentally clicking on one of those things that resembled emails from accounts I actually had that had just enough personal info to fool me. I lost a ton of crypto from my crypto wallet that day, waking up to a loss of hundreds of dollars worth.

If I had done that on my iPad instead, nothing would have happened. In the end, I had to completely wipe my Mac and start from scratch, not being able to trust any backups.

 

[cbns]

bla bla, cry me a river you big capitalist overlords

let me install my own **** and ****, thanks apple

 

[turbineseaplane]

I wonder if we'll ever have a thread about iOS lockdown where someone does not devolve to telling folks to "go buy an Android"

So far we've never made it more than a page or two before that pops up

 

[iOS Geek]

Ahh, that "dangerous sideloading"

You mean like how we "install Apps on macOS"?

Please

Google also warn users of the "dangers" of side loading on Android. So does Microsoft with Windows.

But don't let facts get in the way of your emotions or anything, I guess

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Alternative title:

Apple: "Our most secure OS's security completely falls apart by the slights bit of foreign code despite the fact that we demand to see all of it anyways"

Funny you mention "foreign code" when it's likely that one of the EU's motivations is to have easier access to an OS that is built on foreign soil.

 

[iOS Geek]

I wonder if we'll ever have a thread about iOS lockdown where someone does not devolve to telling folks to "go buy an Android"

So far we've never made it more than a page or two before that pops up

Maybe because it's a valid point. The same users who complain about lack of choice on iOS made the CHOICE to buy into that platform instead of the other one that offers EXACTLY what they want!

 

[till]

I guess I just don't understand why people who want to side load apps don't buy an Android phone. You buy an iPhone knowing what it is, what you can and can't do with it.

And now Europeans can buy an iPhone, knowing exactly what the law is. This isn't a hypothetical debate anymore, this is reality.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

I wonder if we'll ever have a thread about iOS lockdown where someone does not devolve to telling folks to "go buy an Android"

So far we've never made it more than a page or two before that pops up

Because that's what competition really is. Buyers making choices. Not government dictating signifcant operating procedures to the only closed-system OS on the market.

I'll continue to make that point, because it's the most salient point there is.

But many of you seem to need Government hand-holding in order to navigate the market.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

These poor EU guys with an inferiority complex salivating over government regulation on an American tech company 😂

Guys, just build a truly open phone ecosystem! I know you can do it — the EU has your backs 😉

It will be great! FREEDOM (in a highly regulated way 🤔)

 

[StuBeck]

That you can find a bad app doesn't mean that we should therefore allow all bad apps to have free access.

That's an odd bit of logic.

Its not about letting bad apps in. Its about user choice. If I want access to an app that Apple doesn't want, why shouldn't I have the ability to do that? Their concerns about my security are invalidated by how often they don't care enough to check the apps that are being let in.

 

[SanderEvers]

Ahh, that "dangerous sideloading"

You mean like how we "install Apps on macOS"?

Please

An iPhone is not a Mac. Nor do I want it to be.

 

[MilaM]

Or, there are those of us who have chosen a walled system for specific reasons. Are you calling my child a "naive idiot" if I prefer she not have access to an open OS?

If this is your concern, then there are other tools for that. Check out Apple Configurator.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Its not about letting bad apps in. Its about user choice. If I want access to an app that Apple doesn't want, why shouldn't I have the ability to do that? Their concerns about my security are invalidated by how often they don't care enough to check the apps that are being let in.

What app that you want has Apple denied?

Hypotheticals won’t cut it — I need specifics!

 

[Timo_Existencia]

If this is your concern, then there are other tools for that. Check out Apple Configurator.

Or, let me make my own choices without the need of big government dictating what choices I have. Let me decide how I want to manage my own privacy and security without taking options away from me.

 

[StuBeck]

What app that you want has Apple denied?

Hypotheticals won’t cut it — I need specifics!

xCloud streaming app.

 

[dumastudetto]

As others have said here in various ways, your statement seems to carry with it the implication that iPhone users are naive idiots who need 'baby gates' installed by Apple, otherwise they will harm themsleves.
I guess in your world view we should have school crossing guards at every intersection of the country - since people can't understand how to be safe on their own.

Technology is complicated and most people are not capable of making safe and sound decisions. Until now, Apple consumers had confidence that they would be protected by the company. The EU has made it much more risky for these people to traverse the digital universe.

 

[bollman]

They allow side loading on macOS because the horse left the barn decades ago. They cannot enforce it for an OS that was designed originally in the 1990’s as NeXTStep. This kind of thing has to be enforced from the beginning to avoid breaking everything that exists today. IOS and its derivations were written from the ground up with this kind of security in mind. MacOS is nice, but it is a far bigger security risk than iOS, something Apple can mitigate such as asking apps to sandbox, but they cannot force them. Nor can Apple enforce no direct interapplication communication, something that’s forbidden in iOS where Apple spent years inventing mechanisms that avoid that, but go through the operating system to accomplish things that resemble that.

The biggest security hole in macOS is allowing unfettered access to the file system where anyone can muck with the key system files as much as they want given root privileges. They cannot take away rooting through Terminal that has existed as long as there has been Unix, while iOS blocks that ability beyond actual jailbreaking. MacOS is just a different beast they cannot pull back in time to revamp to their iOS security standards. I’ve said this many times. If Apple could have done it all over again, macOS’s security would look very much like iOS, but they can’t. It would be like resetting macOS back to square one with no apps available, something they can’t do without essentially killing the Mac.

When did you last use macOS? Mess around with "root" as much as you like, you cannot touch the system files. That changed ages ago.

 

[bollman]

Apple is in the right here.

The EU is in the wrong.

EU customers are being asked to take huge risks and Apple can only do partial things to try and minimise them.

That statement is by definition false.
Apple is a company operating within the EU borders.
EU sets the rules within these borders.
EU can't be in the wrong since they set the rules, and Apple is by definition in the wrong if they do not comply with those rules.

 

[dumastudetto]

That statement is by definition false.
Apple is a company operating within the EU borders.
EU sets the rules within these borders.
EU can't be in the wrong since they set the rules, and Apple is by definition in the wrong if they do not comply with those rules.

Bad laws are still bad regardless of who comes up with them. DMA is an absolute stinker of unworkable directives. PWAs is just the first data point that Apple has proven.

 

[Naraxus]

I want a modern OS that is closed. I've knowingly made that choice for reasons that are important and valuable to me.

I trust business to make critical decisions on privacy and safety in tech much more than I trust Government to make those decisions; or at least I trust Apple more than I trust the EU.

I would like Apple to allow me to close off Alternate App stores on my child's devices.

I appreciate those of you who want to live in an open os ecosystem.

But why do you insist on taking my choice away? Why do you empower governments to make these choices?

Your choice isn't being taken away whatsoever. You don't want to sideload or get apps from Apple then guess what? You can continue using the App Store all you want.