Apple Does Deep Dive Into Security Protections and Risks With Alternative App Marketplaces

[tornadowrangler]

Then buy into the ecosystem that lets you do that. Don't buy into one that has NEVER allowed it and then **** and moan that it doesn't let you. You knew what you bought into. There was an option that did exactly what you wanted. If I wanted the same fragmented mess as Android, I would go back to Android. Instead, the EU has decided to meddle and ruin a simplified ecosystem that millions of users willingly chose over the other one that is a fragmented mess!

And yes, millions of businesses across the world use Windows. And most if not all of them probably heavily restrict what can be side loaded because it's a risk. That sure sounds like the actual feature and functionality of it is a problem, to me! If the actual feature and functionality is not a problem, then why is it so heavily restricted or advised against on the platforms that already allow it?

Oh, the old "if you don't like it, then don't use it" defense.

So, never complain about anything???

We LIKE the iPhone, we would just like THIS PART of it to be better. Wanting things to we like to be even better is a pretty normal thing.

And it's not the EU ruining it. Apple is choosing to ruin it. I personally don't think the government should force Apple to that. I think Apple should have done it ON THERE OWN. Of course when they are forced to, they are going to try to make it as horrible as difficult as possible. That should be expected.

But in the end, it is Apple's choice to make it horrible. I don't understand what is so difficult about this. Offer the Apple App Store, and that's what 95% people would use. ALLOW people to install apps they want from other sources that have nothing to do with Apple. I should be able to just download Netflix app from Netflix.com and be done with it.

Why would this be a bad thing for anybody?

Also, businesses have the ABILITY to restrict side-loading on windows/macs. So, the side-loading ISN'T a problem because they CAN restrict it.

You're basically saying on the iPhone we all need to have the same restrictions we would have if our devices were corporate owned.

 

[Jamie0003]

Then you should have no problem providing a source then, correct? Remember...the EU tried to classify it as a monopoly but instead had to use the word "gatekeeper" because "monopoly" didn't stick. They couldn't find a way to legally call a platform that has such a small percentage of the user base in the region a "monopoly".

Plenty of examples, how about this from the other day? If that’s not a monopoly then I don’t know what to tell you

Apple reportedly faces €500m fine from EU over music streaming access

Brussels to issue levy after Spotify complained about block on telling users about cheaper alternatives to app store, according to FT

www.theguardian.com

EU accuses Apple of breaking competition law over contactless payments

The US tech giant denies it is restricting rivals' access to its mobile payments technology.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apple Safari Browser: Is There a Monopoly? EU's DMA Aims to End 'Unfair Practices'

Safari is one of the largest web browsers in existence, and the EU wants it to stop its bad practices.

www.techtimes.com

 

[derekamoss]

Apple's decision to include emails to Tim Cook in the whitepaper feels odd... and a bit cringy to me

Pretty sure those were just Apple employees who were told to send emails to tim cook on their personal email accounts. "iPhone user" in email just means an Apple employee not in the EU and "EU iphone User really just means an Apple employee in the EU. Very Clever.

 

[Mousse]

Personally, I wish the walled garden extended to the Mac.

The day that happens is the day I stop using a Mac. The only way for that to work is if I lose super user privilege and access to the Terminal.

 

[Jim Lahey]

This whole show is going to turn iOS into a swamp, and the minority of users who will actually benefit from it always had the option to take their business elsewhere but didn't.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

This web site literally exists because NeXT merged with Apple and Steve Jobs had a second act never to repeated ever in computing history.

Smartphones and streaming audio becoming a financial boon exist because of Apple. Microsoft failed repeatedly to counter, Google repeatedly fails but subsidizes those failures by owning the search and advertising industries while Meta does the same in social closed networks.

When does the EU start producing companies that change the landscape of computing. In professional audio it is AVID whom nearly every professional mixer and audio mastering technician (they are technicians no matter how much they label themselves engineers without formal engineering degrees aside) loathes from Europe you don’t see Apple complaining or Ableton, etc about a lack of interoperability with third party DAWs not working on their AVID hardware digital consoles and post production hardware.

The amount of overreach by the EU in the end won’t have succeeded in their true intent—to provide economic costs reductions to companies within the EU and thus time to excel and perhaps be the next Apple.

Europe has had roughly five decades to produce a Silicon Valley and it never will. The same goes for China.

 

[Baritone_Guy]

That will be a no then.

If iOS is a monopoly then there would be no alternative to iOS. However there is a rather well known alternative to iOS.
If iOS is a monopoly then so is Coca-Cola as whilst other cola drinks exist you only get Coca-Cola from Coca-Cola.
So better start cracking on opening up Coca-Cola so other people can provide Coca-Cola. Of course if people don't want Coca-Cola then there is Pepsi.

iOS is not a Monopoly, but rather one part of a duopoly. Within that part, the AppStore is a Monopoly.

Apple could have avoided this whole thing if they just would have backed down on some of the charges for things like recurring subscriptions. After the original purchase why is my monthly fee to “xxx” or my ebook purchase worth more than than a few small percent as Apple is only acting as a payment handler at this point. More like a PayPal.

All of the app security, review, hosting etc.. is covered by the developer agreement like any other app.

 

[NT1440]

Yet people love their Macs and Android is a huge success. There are risks and people should be warned but I'd rather have the freedom to do what I want with my devices than have someone hold my hand and tell me they know what's best for me.

Millions of businesses across the world use Windows, pretty much every server runs Linux and Android smartphones which "sideload" apps. The actual feature and functionality of it is not the problem and iOS/iPadOS should implement it worldwide.

Apple is just scared and desperately trying to not lose money.

…how do you NOT have the freedom to simply not buy an iOS device?

 

[CarAnalogy]

The fact the word side-loading even exists. Which side? They make it sound like it's right next to the "backdoor."

It's just protectionism at this point. Not of their users or platform, but the perceived threat to their business model. They painted themselves into a corner with the 30% thing and don't want to make any other way out.

There are so many basic things people have been begging the App Store to support that would not be that hard, but Apple won't hear because they don’t want to hear. Things like straightforward upgrade pricing.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Well, I don't know exactly how many pages their PDF is, but they DO actively warn their users about the "dangers" of side loading and encourage their users to NOT do it. In fact, apparently Google is testing a feature where if you side load an app, you have to confirm that you have verified the app and that it is actually what you want...and even AFTER you do that...it doesn't let you download it. So Google seems to be taking an even harder stance on it as of late, even if it's just "testing".

And to be fair, Apple's "droning on" about this "regulation putting their users at risk"...is accurate. There's nothing untrue, there! It very much IS a risk. Demonstrated perfectly by European government agencies raising concerns about the risks!

You can keep searching for your "gotcha" moment though. You might find one eventually.

Really? Google and Microsoft produced a 32 page PDF droning on about regulation putting their users at risk?

Every company has put out literal truckloads of information on how users can keep themselves safe. Doesn't seem to help much. There always seems to be about the same basic level of scams.

Apple is just playing up a fundamental aspect of computers for their own financial gain.

 

[NewOldStock]

OK so now it's back to the Linux phones. Go Ubuntu phones.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Every company has put out literal truckloads of information on how users can keep themselves safe. Doesn't seem to help much. There always seems to be about the same basic level of scams.

Apple is just playing up a fundamental aspect of computers for their own financial gain.

That document is absolutely wild.

They have even included emails that they claim users have sent to to Tim Cook 😂

Check out the absolutely 'real' emails..

 

[CarAnalogy]

That document is absolutely wild.

They have even included emails that they claim users have sent to to Tim Cook 😂

Check out the absolutely 'real' emails..

View attachment 2354621

Ahaha well, also as usual, everything Apple says that's supposed to be informative is also marketing.

 

[JonathanX64]

Of course, sure, whatever. Apple lost. Users won. They have to move on now.

 

[hans1972]

But they side-load apps on Mac.

Side-loading isn't bad. Competition (different stores) isn't bad... unless you're an AAPL shareholder, of course.

Why do we need a "whitepaper" for a basic feature that every other popular modern OS supports (excluding iPadOS lol) ?

Nice try Apple.

Because a locked down computer in many ways is better especially for non-technical people.

Why do you think enterprises locks down all their Windows computers too? It's a security and support nightmare to have open Windows computers and locking them down improves security and reduces support by a lot.

With iOS even consumers get this for free, without having to do anything.

 

[hans1972]

Side-loading isn't bad. Competition (different stores) isn't bad... unless you're an AAPL shareholder, of course..

Yes, it is.

Having one place to get all the software for a platform it's much better. It's even better when such a platform censor apps and control developers and put certain demands on them.

Any system which treats developers as second class citizens is a superior system when you value convenience and privacy from developers.

 

[hans1972]

Apple could have just stopped forcing devs to pay 30% for IAPs and forcing them to use the AppStore payment methods. But no.

They could have simply charged the larger apps more or charged for their tools, or found a better way to make revenue. But they stuck to being greedy pigs.

So then the govts & courts will do what they have to and what the people demand.

Only in the US do corporations get to do whatever they want

There is no way that any of your proposals would have made Apple anything close to what they do today.

 

[hans1972]

If you want things locked down, no freedom, no competition, and Apple making as much money as possible then yeah it's a good thing.

We want convenience and don't care to much about security or validating applications. We have no problem paying for such a system.

So iOS is good for a lot of us.

 

[hans1972]

millions of businesses across the world use Windows, pretty much every server runs Linux and Android smartphones which "sideload" apps. The actual feature and functionality of it is not the problem and iOS/iPadOS should implement it worldwide.

And pretty much every company except maybe the smallest ones, locks down Windows to varying degrees. Most of them makes it impossible for regular end-users to install software from sources not approved.

Even some companies locks down the USB-ports and don't allow adding local printers or accessing the Internet directly.

 

[Antoniosmalakia]

View attachment 2354631
Of course, sure, whatever. Apple lost. Users won. They have to move on now.

I had thought about using that meme on a few threads. 👁️🙏👁️

 

[hans1972]

So people here are just afraid of content?

No, we're worried about convenience.

Having one App Store for all the software for a platform is extremely convenient. Just one set of rules, one payment method, one method to install, one method to complain, one method to get your money back.

In addition, Apple worked like a shield between you and the developers.

Now, the developers can have direct contact with the customers, which is something I don't want if it can be avoided.

 

[hans1972]

As others have said here in various ways, your statement seems to carry with it the implication that iPhone users are naive idiots who need 'baby gates' installed by Apple, otherwise they will harm themsleves.

Lot's of users are technical inapt, can't handle computer security and wants someone else to take care of it. It's why so many non-technical users prefer iOS over Android.

Simplicity and not having to think are to very important features of iOS and iPhones.

I deal with tech and security issues at work. I don't want do deal with in my spare time. I'm quite happy to outsource those things to Apple.

Could Apple do an even better job of treating developers like ****? Yes, but they still do a good job.

 

[JonathanX64]

No, we're worried about convenience.

Having one App Store for all the software for a platform is extremely convenient. Just one set of rules, one payment method, one method to install, one method to complain, one method to get your money back.

In addition, Apple worked like a shield between you and the developers.

Now, the developers can have direct contact with the customers, which is something I don't want if it can be avoided.

Not worked. Works. The App Store is not going anywhere, just like Google Play. If you want to pay more for your stuff and support late stage capitalism with your money, then feel free to keep using it.

Oh, and any indie developer gets 1000x more trust from me than Apple. Can’t say the same about big corps, but when I subscribe to something like Day One or buy something like Tot, I’d be much happier knowing that devs received ~97% of my money instead of 70%.

 

[hans1972]

Ahh, that "dangerous sideloading"

You mean like how we "install Apps on macOS"?

Please

Open system are more insecure, especially for regular user's who don't want to deal with computer security.

It's a reason why almost every company, except small ones, locks down all their computers and phones.

I don't think I have visited any enterprise here in Norway in the last 5 years who allow regular end-users to install software from any source on their Windows computers.

Some companies even locks down USB-ports, installing local printers and surfing the Internet without VPN to the office.

 

[hans1972]

I wonder if we'll ever have a thread about iOS lockdown where someone does not devolve to telling folks to "go buy an Android"

So far we've never made it more than a page or two before that pops up

But aren't you using an Android phone?