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Quite why Americans think free healthcare is a bad idea is beyond me. As to it being allied to communism is just a joke.
This type of criticism from people in Europe is so off-putting and, even perhaps, graceless. Since the end of WWII, America has provided an iron-clad security guarantee to an ever growing number of European countries, freeing up European governments to expand their welfare states. Well, if free healthcare is such a "moral" issue, why don't the Europeans do their part and refuse any American security guarantees and military assistance? Let Europeans pay for their own national security so Americans can redirect those billions to fund their "moral" obligations. If that had happened in 1950, major parts of Europe may have been speaking Russian decades ago ... otherwise there is a good chance that many of those Europeans who lament the American system would not have free healthcare either.
 

This type of criticism from people in Europe is so off-putting and, even perhaps, graceless. Since the end of WWII, America has provided an iron-clad security guarantee to an ever growing number of European countries, freeing up European governments to expand their welfare states. Well, if free healthcare is such a "moral" issue, why don't the Europeans do their part and refuse any American security guarantees and military assistance? Let Europeans pay for their own national security so Americans can redirect those billions to fund their "moral" obligations. If that had happened in 1950, major parts of Europe may have been speaking Russian decades ago ... otherwise there is a good chance that many of those Europeans who lament the American system would not have free healthcare either.
Not sure how this has relevance to free healthcare not being implemented in the US. You have the money but choose to fill the pockets of big pharma and a business model that strongly resists change.
To your point, I don’t have a lot of confidence in America coming to aid of Europe under the present administration. We’ve taken the lecture from Vance and many of us are working hard to increase our independence.
 
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This type of criticism from people in Europe is so off-putting and, even perhaps, graceless. Since the end of WWII, America has provided an iron-clad security guarantee to an ever growing number of European countries, freeing up European governments to expand their welfare states. Well, if free healthcare is such a "moral" issue, why don't the Europeans do their part and refuse any American security guarantees and military assistance? Let Europeans pay for their own national security so Americans can redirect those billions to fund their "moral" obligations. If that had happened in 1950, major parts of Europe may have been speaking Russian decades ago ... otherwise there is a good chance that many of those Europeans who lament the American system would not have free healthcare either.

do you need explaining what 'mutual' in 'Mutual Security Act' stands for? would you have gone to war with the Soviets to open new markets for your spray cheese and cola, if Europe had declined your so-called charity, which wasn't even all that much? and your nightmare 'free healthcare' is paid for by taxation, not even always exclusively so, but whatever turns you on.
 
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Not sure how this has relevance to free healthcare not being implemented in the US. You have the money but choose to fill the pockets of big pharma and a business model that strongly resists change.
To your point, I don’t have a lot of confidence in America coming to aid of Europe under the present administration. We’ve taken the lecture from Vance and many of us are working hard to increase our independence.
It's relevant because Europeans love to spend other people's money. Budgets are not infinite and freedom is not cheap. Europeans should do their part. Approximately 50% of the US non-discretionary budget goes to military spending to maintain armed forces strong enough to extend a defense umbrella to allies in Europe and Asia with the balance going to transportation, education, veterans' benefits, and other important domestic programs. If Europe does not want the assistance, they should say so. Otherwise, European should just say thank you and stay clear of US politics.

The US already runs a $1.78 billion budget deficit and it maintains a national debt approaching $38 trillion (which was about $1 trillion in 1981). America cannot afford to do everything ... even if they wanted to implement a European a welfare state, which many do not want for a variety of very good reasons.
 

In the last few weeks I have had a specialist consultation, a CT scan, a colonoscopy and today a wellness check-up. 3 weeks ago I had all the blood tests for organ function, prostate and much else. Tomorrow i see my dentist and hygienist. I pay very little tax and all my healthcare is free except a small payment for a more comprehensive dental plan that includes 3D modelling to ensure my teeth can be rebuilt as they are necessary in my work.

The NHS system is cradle to grave free healthcare but it's more than that. All British citizens pay for it through their taxes and that means that the least well-off will always receive the same treatment as someone who is a millionaire. Americans try to pick holes in this but the care I have received throughout my life has been exemplary. I am now 70.
 
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In the last few weeks I have had a specialist consultation, a CT scan, a colonoscopy and today a wellness check-up. 3 weeks ago I had all the blood tests for organ function, prostate and much else. Tomorrow i see my dentist and hygienist. I pay very little tax and all my healthcare is free except a small payment for a more comprehensive dental plan that includes 3D modelling to ensure my teeth can be rebuilt as they are necessary in my work.

The NHS system is cradle to grave free healthcare but it's more than that. All British citizens pay for it through their taxes and that means that the least well-off will always receive the same treatment as someone who is a millionaire. Americans try to pick holes in this but the care I have received throughout my life has been exemplary. I am now 70.
Your story is amazing but it is also contradictory to many others that don’t get appointments for months for serious health issues, don’t get treatments before those ailments turn into life threatening diseases and now you have a very large part of your population who broke in to your country and now is leaching off of tax payers services without contributing.
 
Your story is amazing but it is also contradictory to many others that don’t get appointments for months for serious health issues, don’t get treatments before those ailments turn into life threatening diseases and now you have a very large part of your population who broke in to your country and now is leaching off of tax payers services without contributing.
Well maybe you should check your sources. The media love exaggeration, as do many who inhabit social media. There have been waiting lists following Covid but the last year has seen some impressive improvements.
As for the immigration issue , this is affecting many countries but has no impact where I live.
 
You can do what I did: cancel your Apple subscriptions, I cancelled my Apple one subscription, and gave them feedback as to why and what it would take to get me back. Apple capitulating to the dictator ahead of time is so gross, nothing he has done has been done through legal means, he’s bypassing congress and laws and orders put out by judges when they catch him breaking laws. We need to pull our $ from the companies that support or bribe the one that wants the bribes. Seriously, look at what is behind this administration, and you’ll see they are purposefully trying to dismantle our democracy and institute authoritarianism… fundamentalist authoritarian “Christians”, Mormons, who believe God is not in a democracy, and that this country was founded by Christians, and also white nationalists are behind this administration.

FYI: the ice wearing masks… whatever happened to the proud boys, the oath keepers, others like them? Why do you think they wear masks? (Rhetorical question, answer is obvious, no replies please.)
Voting with your $$$ is the best way to send a message to corporations. With Apple if we could only get the other 1 billion customers in alignment.
 
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As for the immigration issue , this is affecting many countries but has no impact where I live.
It’s a dumpster fire in the US. I don’t care how many people immigrate provided there is a balance of skilled and unskilled labor and they come legally. What’s happened is not that to the tune of 4% of the population being here illegally. In places like CA it’s 6.5% of the population which is just nuts.
 
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Well maybe you should check your sources. The media love exaggeration, as do many who inhabit social media. There have been waiting lists following Covid but the last year has seen some impressive improvements.
As for the immigration issue , this is affecting many countries but has no impact where I live.

Kingsfund
“The UK faces relatively high rates of avoidable mortality, meaning more deaths could be prevented through effective public health or health care intervention relative to European peers.”
 
Kingsfund
“The UK faces relatively high rates of avoidable mortality, meaning more deaths could be prevented through effective public health or health care intervention relative to European peers.”
In the UK there is regional disparity and also much can depend on your own desire and ability to seek out what you need. People must also respond to NHS messages regarding health checks. All I can say is that by following these simple processes I receive excellent, free, healthcare. I would never hesitate for a moment to call an ambulance due to cost. Even those with private health care need the NHS for the really big operations like heart and lung transplants and the private companies are really not interested in things like cancer. If you declare that you have a serious condition your premium will increase considerably.

Above all the present morality around health care since the second world war has been that medical treatment should be free at the point of delivery for everyone. It should never be dependent on your ability to pay and we view that as a mature, responsible society. I would not want to live in a country that believed otherwise.

I am sure things will perhaps change significantly in the future, but not in my lifetime. What has changed in my lifetime has been free university education. The UK has moved much closer to the US system. I had all my education free by law and many other aspects of my life between 16 and 25 were paid for with grants.
 
In the UK there is regional disparity and also much can depend on your own desire and ability to seek out what you need. People must also respond to NHS messages regarding health checks. All I can say is that by following these simple processes I receive excellent, free, healthcare. I would never hesitate for a moment to call an ambulance due to cost. Even those with private health care need the NHS for the really big operations like heart and lung transplants and the private companies are really not interested in things like cancer. If you declare that you have a serious condition your premium will increase considerably.

Above all the present morality around health care since the second world war has been that medical treatment should be free at the point of delivery for everyone. It should never be dependent on your ability to pay and we view that as a mature, responsible society. I would not want to live in a country that believed otherwise.

I am sure things will perhaps change significantly in the future, but not in my lifetime. What has changed in my lifetime has been free university education. The UK has moved much closer to the US system. I had all my education free by law and many other aspects of my life between 16 and 25 were paid for with grants.
Somebody pays of course. Many people, under the guise of "morality," actually have no concerns about embarking down the road to servitude. Of course, liberty against tyranny is the best way to achieve societal morality and this requires limited government -- not cradle to grave government run policies.
 
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Somebody pays of course. Many people, under the guise of "morality," actually have no concerns about embarking down the road to servitude. Of course, liberty against tyranny is the best way to achieve societal morality and this requires limited government -- not cradle to grave government run policies.
I couldn't disagree more. I don't serve anybody - I have complete freedom. This American freak out over having government actually do some work for you, the citizen, is absurd. Luckily I don't have to live where you do with a pretty large amount of tyranny going on right now!
In your country you pay and the big corporations gladly take the money - way beyond the cost price so that shareholders build their stash! There's a big battle here right now because American drug companies want so much more for their products. Our government won't pay it but as the NHS is the biggest client of its kind in the world the companies continue to provide.
 
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I couldn't disagree more. I don't serve anybody - I have complete freedom. This American freak out over having government actually do some work for you, the citizen, is absurd. Luckily I don't have to live where you do with a pretty large amount of tyranny going on right now!
In your country you pay and the big corporations gladly take the money - way beyond the cost price so that shareholders build their stash! There's a big battle here right now because American drug companies want so much more for their products. Our government won't pay it but as the NHS is the biggest client of its kind in the world the companies continue to provide.
It’s a false equivalency to mention in the same paragraph the pharma industry vs apple a lifestyle company.

Pharma should have guardrails its products can have a significant impact on the population and tier one meds are extraordinarily expensive.
 
It’s a false equivalency to mention in the same paragraph the pharma industry vs apple a lifestyle company.

Pharma should have guardrails its products can have a significant impact on the population and tier one meds are extraordinarily expensive.
Where did I mention Apple in that paragraph?
 
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Some of you may need a bit of help on why free health care should be seen as essential, not some route to communism! Mind you, as I'm not American why should I care if Republicans want to spend their hard-earned money on expensive insurance.
 
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It’s in the thread title. Mentioning pharma as an industry is a different kettle of fish than Apple whereby the CEO’s made a donation.
What you mean is, I strayed from the thread title - not what I described in the paragraph. Uncle Tim shouldn't be making donations to the orange one in any case, but that's a different matter! God, you Americans are so stuffed!
 
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