Apple dropped the ball on this one ...

[Dwalls90]

Past versions of Mac OS 10.x have been pretty much applicable to all of Apple's past computers. Typically, they would introduce revolutionary features or applications, along with enhancing the overall user experience, which could be realized by even older Macs. However, I have to say that I'm disappointed that two core features built into Snow Leopard, will only be realized by computers that are less than one year old when Snow Leopard is launched. Of course, this wouldn't be as big of an issue if Snow Leopard were such a large improvement over Leopard, but it's list of improvements is fairly limited - therefore one would expect these improvements to be available to all.

These two features are the multi-gesture using the trackpad, and the general GPU performance acceleration (OpenCL). One may argue that the new glass trackpad contains hardware that isn't found in older Mac laptops, However, Apple claims that Snow Leopard will enable multi-gesture functionality for computers that previously did not have it, and at one time, were unable to recognize multi-gestures. That said, Apple intentionally disabled multi-gestures on the track pad for "old" (older than one year) Mac laptops in an effort to sell new ones. I could understand if they dropped support for computers 2-3 years or older, but 1 year? That's irresponsible ..

The same applies to GPU's. After researching, Windows 7 is going to support many more video cards that are on the market now, even those that are older. Clearly, this is Apple trying to push new computers out the door.

The longer Apple stays in business, the more I dislike them as a business ..

 

[TEG]

Snow Leopard is a minor upgrade to Leopard, and is Intel only. It supports only the video cards and hardware that can function on Intel processors. You have made a non sequitur, your facts are uncoordinated. The trackpad gestures are for all MacBook models, and OpenCL should work on any video card on an Intel Mac.

 

[impulse462]

Snow Leopard is a minor upgrade to Leopard, and is Intel only. It supports only the video cards and hardware that can function on Intel processors. You have made a non sequitur, your facts are uncoordinated. The trackpad gestures are for all MacBook models, and OpenCL should work on any video card on an Intel Mac.

OpenCL only supports the 9400m 9600gt 8800gt gtx 285 and another card...thats not all the cards on intel macs.

 

[Peace]

OpenCL only supports the 9400m 9600gt 8800gt gtx 285 and another card...thats not all the cards on intel macs.

Might want to study up on that..

From Apple tech specs page :

OpenCL
requires one of the following graphics cards or graphics processors:

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce 8600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GS, Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX5600
ATI Radeon 4850, Radeon 4870

http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html

 

[impulse462]

Might want to study up on that..

From Apple tech specs page :

OpenCL
requires one of the following graphics cards or graphics processors:

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce 8600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GS, Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX5600
ATI Radeon 4850, Radeon 4870

http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html

I see, but that still does not include all intel macs

 

[Peace]

Apple never said OpenCL would work on "all" graphics chips/cards or Intel Macs.

A lot of cards just won't do it. That and Apple has been working closely with NVidia ( contrary to rumors otherwise ) to get this nifty stuff to work.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

No one has even used SL yet and people are already hatin'. Try it before you start on with your teenage angst crap.

 

[sidewinder]

Snow Leopard is a minor upgrade to Leopard, and is Intel only. It supports only the video cards and hardware that can function on Intel processors. You have made a non sequitur, your facts are uncoordinated. The trackpad gestures are for all MacBook models, and OpenCL should work on any video card on an Intel Mac.

You got all kinds of stuff wrong....including the fact that Snow Leopard is not a minor upgrade to Leopard.

S-

 

[stainlessliquid]

What are you expecting for $30? $129 for updating to SL would be a rip off, users shouldnt have to pay for cleaned up code (and they never really have had to pay for cleaned up code from anyone). Think of it as getting $30 worth of apps that make using the OS a little better.

 

[Amdahl]

That said, Apple intentionally disabled multi-gestures on the track pad for "old" (older than one year) Mac laptops in an effort to sell new ones. I could understand if they dropped support for computers 2-3 years or older, but 1 year? That's irresponsible ..

The same applies to GPU's. After researching, Windows 7 is going to support many more video cards that are on the market now, even those that are older. Clearly, this is Apple trying to push new computers out the door.

The longer Apple stays in business, the more I dislike them as a business ..

Welcome to the club. Whenever Apple has a choice between improving the value of existing customers, or diminishing the value of existing customers, they choose to devalue and point you toward their new product for sale.

This will continue as long as the customers keep falling for it, which could be a while, because Apple appears to have perfected the perpetual-motion-idiot-customer-fanbase-machine.

I think the process can start with Five (5) years of security updates from the last date of sale for any product. That demonstrates good faith to keep your purchase safe, serviceable and functional.

 

[ian.maffett]

LoL - non sequitur. Nice.

 

[uaecasher]

No one has even used SL yet and people are already hatin'. Try it before you start on with your teenage angst crap.

I totally agree with you

maybe they just want post count lol

 

[angelwatt]

No one has even used SL yet and people are already hatin'.

Except a few thousand developers and a few thousand pirates. There's plenty of developers here at Mac Rumors that have been using Snow Leopard for some time now. Just look at all the threads here about people having problems with SL even though it isn't officially released yet. Though in fairness, most of threads are the pirates who have no right to the developer version.

 

[Dwalls90]

Snow Leopard is a minor upgrade to Leopard, and is Intel only. It supports only the video cards and hardware that can function on Intel processors. You have made a non sequitur, your facts are uncoordinated. The trackpad gestures are for all MacBook models, and OpenCL should work on any video card on an Intel Mac.

Wrong, as already pointed out. More than half of the GPU's that run on Intel Mac setups are not those listed as OpenCL supported. Apple has published a list of supported GPU's, so for you to claim Apple is lying ...

Apple is NOT including multi-gesture support on all earlier laptops. From the article;

"When Apple introduced the new MacBooks, MacBook Airs, and MacBook Pros in October, they also introduced a new four-finger multi-touch trackpad gesture that allowed users to easily switch between applications (swipe left/right) or invoke Exposé (swipe up/down). While it's long been known that the original MacBook Air and early 2008 MacBook Pros were also capable of detecting these 4-finger gestures, Apple has not yet announced or provided software support for the feature.

The latest Snow Leopard developer seeds, however, reveal that Apple will be adding support for these gestures to these "1st generation" multi-touch trackpad devices. Based on reports, this functionality has finally been added for the original MacBook Air (and presumably the early 2008 MacBook Pros).

The original MacBook Air was the first Apple laptop to incorporate a multi-touch trackpad when it was introduced in January 2008 and the MacBook Pros quickly followed with multi-touch support in February 2008."

That said, Apple is ONLY giving multi-gesture support to 2008+ laptops.

 

[Schtumple]

That said, Apple is ONLY giving multi-gesture support to 2008+ laptops.

Because they're the only laptops that have multi-touch trackpads... You can't take a laptop that supports 2 fingers and make it support 4... It's a hardware limitation on the older models and a software limitation on the newer ones. Apple can fix the latter, but not the former.

Also, if you were actually here when Leopard came out, you'll remember that everyone got up in a ruckus because the original Mac G3s where no longer supported. Technology moves fast, and if Apple wants to stay ahead they can't afford to be bogged down supporting older and older hardware.

And you're right, Snow Leopard isn't a super big release, that's the point, it's a small tidy update to a already decent OS. That's why it's $29.

Christ, I swear some people refuse to be satisfied. If you can't stand paying $29 for Snow Leopard, go pay $220 for the Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade, or $320 (are you freaking kidding me?!) for the standalone version...

Now I refuse to feed the troll anymore.

 

[Dwalls90]

Because they're the only laptops that have multi-touch trackpads... You can't take a laptop that supports 2 fingers and make it support 4... It's a hardware limitation on the older models and a software limitation on the newer ones. Apple can fix the latter, but not the former.

Who's to say it's a hardware limitation? If the trackpad can recognize two fingers, surely Apple could find a way to integrate four fingers. Of course they won't.

Also, if you were actually here when Leopard came out, you'll remember that everyone got up in a ruckus because the original Mac G3s where no longer supported. Technology moves fast, and if Apple wants to stay ahead they can't afford to be bogged down supporting older and older hardware.

This isn't the same. Cutting off support to computers that are 3-4 years old, and beginning to screw over models that are over a year old, is ridiculous. When Leopard was released, the G4 chip was just about 8 years old. We're talking totally different scenarios.

And you're right, Snow Leopard isn't a super big release, that's the point, it's a small tidy update to a already decent OS. That's why it's $29.

As it should be, that point was never contested. But if you're providing small updates, they should be granted to all customers across the board. You're telling me that if I don't own one of those GPU's, and my computer isn't a 2008+ model, that I'm better off not buying Snow Leopard? Because that's how it's sounding right about now.

Christ, I swear some people refuse to be satisfied. If you can't stand paying $29 for Snow Leopard, go pay $220 for the Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade, or $320 (are you freaking kidding me?!) for the standalone version...

I'm a customer that doesn't want to be screwed over, not an idiot who would ever consider Windoze.

Now I refuse to feed the troll anymore.

Trolling? I countered a member's post that was incorrect. There is no trolling in this thread.

 

[tekio]

Who's to say it's a hardware limitation? If the trackpad can recognize two fingers, surely Apple could find a way to integrate four fingers. Of course they won't.

The hardware already recognizes more than 4 fingers, apple just need to write the driver.

 

[devburke]

One may argue that the new glass trackpad contains hardware that isn't found in older Mac laptops, However, Apple claims that Snow Leopard will enable multi-gesture functionality for computers that previously did not have it, and at one time, were unable to recognize multi-gestures. That said, Apple intentionally disabled multi-gestures on the track pad for "old" (older than one year) Mac laptops in an effort to sell new ones. I could understand if they dropped support for computers 2-3 years or older, but 1 year? That's irresponsible ..

They never said they're adding multi-touch gestures for computers that didn't have them. When multi-touch gestures were first introduced, they were just used for things like pinching and rotating. All these three and four fingers gestures didn't come until later. And now with Snow Leopard, the multi-touch trackpads sold in that period before the rest of the gestures were introduced will have all the gestures enabled. I'll agree with you that Apple should have enabled them in Leopard for all computers with multi-touch trackpads, but that's a different story. My main point here is that only laptops with multi-touch trackpads will be getting these features. It's not turning non-multi-touch into multi-touch, it's only giving multi-touch more features.

Who's to say it's a hardware limitation? If the trackpad can recognize two fingers, surely Apple could find a way to integrate four fingers. Of course they won't.

The older trackpads can recognize when two fingers are present, but they don't track each individual one. They just get a general idea of where they are. So if they're moving down, it scrolls down, etc. But it can't tell when they're twisting in different directions to do things like rotating, and they're not build to detect more than two fingers. It's a hardware limitation.

 

[t0mat0]

An analogy

Past versions of iPhone OS have been pretty much applicable to all of Apple's past iPhones. Typically, they would introduce revolutionary features or applications, along with enhancing the overall user experience, which could be realized by even older iPhones. However, I have to say that I'm disappointed that two core features built into iPhone OS 3.0, will only be realized by iPhones that are less than one year old when OS 3.0 is launched. Of course, this wouldn't be as big of an issue if OS 3.0 were such a large improvement over OS 2.x, but it's list of improvements is fairly limited - therefore one would expect these improvements to be available to all.

These two features are the Compass, and video. One may argue that the new iPhone hardware that isn't found in older iPhones...that said, Apple intentionally disabled video for "old" (older than one year) iPhones in an effort to sell new ones. I could understand if they dropped support for iPhones 2-3 years or older, but 1 year? That's irresponsible ..

Clearly, this is Apple trying to push new iPhones out the door.

The longer Apple stays in business, the more I dislike them as a business ..

 

[Schtumple]

Who's to say it's a hardware limitation? If the trackpad can recognize two fingers, surely Apple could find a way to integrate four fingers. Of course they won't.

See below, it's IS a hardware limitation... Isn't it funny that when Macs were given multitouch trackpads, it was just after the iPhone was released, it's almost as if Apple had only just developed the tech then...

The older trackpads can recognize when two fingers are present, but they don't track each individual one. They just get a general idea of where they are. So if they're moving down, it scrolls down, etc. But it can't tell when they're twisting in different directions to do things like rotating, and they're not build to detect more than two fingers. It's a hardware limitation.

I looked around on the Snow Leopard Requirements page I failed to find anywhere that said that you need a 2008+ model to run it... All I could find was:

General requirements

Mac computer with an Intel processor
1GB of memory
5GB of free disk space
DVD drive for installation

Which I'm pretty sure means any Mac since the Intel transition is covered...

Unless you're referring to this:

OpenCL
requires one of the following graphics cards or graphics processors:

NVIDIA Geforce 8600M GT, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GTS, Geforce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130.
ATI Radeon 4850, Radeon 4870

And I sure hope you're not mixing Open CL and Open GL... There is a difference...

Open GL is mainly used by game devs (IIRC), to better take advantage of the GPU for graphic heavy operations. Open CL does exactly the same, but for general use. By not having this feature Snow Leopard will not be hideously slow for you, you will still see the other benefits, just the performance boost might not be as major as other peoples, but to be honest, I really fail to see how you're going to be "screwed over" if your system doesn't meet the requirements for Open CL, it's just one single feature, that to be honest, won't bring as much of a performance boost as everyone thinks it will.

 

[JimBobBennett]

I'm a customer that doesn't want to be screwed over, not an idiot who would ever consider Windoze.

Who's screwing you over? Apple are advertising a product for sale that works on certain hardware. If you have that hardware and want what SL provides, then you buy it. If you don't have that hardware, then don't buy it. Simple. No one is forcing you to buy it. Your computer works now with the applications you have now.

 

[iPhone 62S]

I'm sure it will be hacked for old PowerPC computers sometime, if OS X can be made to run on x86 I don't see why not.

 

[Schtumple]

I'm sure it will be hacked for old PowerPC computers sometime, if OS X can be made to run on x86 I don't see why not.

Considering ALL the PPC code has been removed, I doubt that, there's a huge difference between getting a OS to work on a x86 machine, and getting it to work on a machine where all the code has been removed...

 

[iPhone 62S]

Considering ALL the PPC code has been removed, I doubt that, there's a huge difference between getting a OS to work on a x86 machine, and getting it to work on a machine where all the code has been removed...

Well don't forget that OSx86 was around before Apple officially made the transition to Intel and therefore made OS X officially capable of running on anything but PowerPC, so it's not impossible.

 

[devburke]

Well don't forget that OSx86 was around before Apple officially made the transition to Intel and therefore made OS X officially capable of running on anything but PowerPC, so it's not impossible.

There was some Intel code already in there though, as Apple had been planning for the Intel switch for awhile. There is no PPC in SL.