Apple Drops Windows 7 Boot Camp Support in New Mac Pro

[kingtj]

I don't think Apple needs to explain a thing?

If you go into any retail store today and try to buy a new Windows PC -- see how many of them come pre-loaded with Windows 7. Then ask how many that come with 8 loaded also include at least the option to load 7 instead.

You'd be surprised how much of the marketplace is Windows 8.x only already.

I know there's absolutely nothing Lenovo sells anymore with Windows 7 support, for example.

If Apple decides only to support 8 moving forward, you'll still be able to run Windows 7 in a VM using Parallels or VMWare. I greatly dislike Windows 8 with the new "Metro" UI they bolted onto it, but I can't really see a reason for Apple to go out of its way to support older versions of the competition's OS, when the competition doesn't even support them on new Windows PCs?

Care to explain Apple? Seriously people don't drop $3,000+ on computers so you can weed out the features you're too lazy to support. This pisses me off.

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The people who can get used to Windows 8 quickly are the ones who never did a lot with 7 to begin with!

The Metro UI acts like a big "task launcher" with your most commonly used apps right there in big colored buttons to click on. Any idiot can run Microsoft Word or IE from that screen without wondering how to do it.

The frustration comes in for people who were power users of previous versions of Windows. We all knew the routine to go "Start Menu, Settings, Control Panel" followed by specific icons to adjust various settings. Now all of that is changed around, complete with "charm bars" that only appear on the side of the screen if you get the mouse pointer in just the right place.

I've been using Windows 8 since it came out and I *still* can't really get used to it. I have to support Win 7 at work every day, so I've got to keep going between that and 8, not to mention OS X. If all I used was 8 on the Windows side, yeah -- I'd get used to it eventually. But i don't think I'll ever *like* it. Too many things they changed around feel like they weren't done for good reasons. I do like the fact Win 8 has better performance though. Just think the entire Metro UI was a bad move.

My mom, who used to refer to Internet Explorer as "the internet" and couldn't figure out why here printer wasn't working (didn't choose it on the list) is able to use Windows 8 just like she used Windows 7.

It took me about 10 minutes to get her used to it.

 

[RedCroissant]

Licensing issues?

Is it possible that perhaps the new Mac Pro isn't one of the machines included in a licensing agreement to be able to run Windows 7 any more? I don't know if that's the case or not, but that could explain it considering the track that Microsoft is on toward the Apple-style OS integration that Windows 8 seems to provide. No idea really. All I know is that this "news" doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Michael Goff]

If you go into any retail store today and try to buy a new Windows PC -- see how many of them come pre-loaded with Windows 7. Then ask how many that come with 8 loaded also include at least the option to load 7 instead.

You'd be surprised how much of the marketplace is Windows 8.x only already.

I know there's absolutely nothing Lenovo sells anymore with Windows 7 support, for example.

If Apple decides only to support 8 moving forward, you'll still be able to run Windows 7 in a VM using Parallels or VMWare. I greatly dislike Windows 8 with the new "Metro" UI they bolted onto it, but I can't really see a reason for Apple to go out of its way to support older versions of the competition's OS, when the competition doesn't even support them on new Windows PCs?




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The people who can get used to Windows 8 quickly are the ones who never did a lot with 7 to begin with!

The Metro UI acts like a big "task launcher" with your most commonly used apps right there in big colored buttons to click on. Any idiot can run Microsoft Word or IE from that screen without wondering how to do it.

The frustration comes in for people who were power users of previous versions of Windows. We all knew the routine to go "Start Menu, Settings, Control Panel" followed by specific icons to adjust various settings. Now all of that is changed around, complete with "charm bars" that only appear on the side of the screen if you get the mouse pointer in just the right place.

I've been using Windows 8 since it came out and I *still* can't really get used to it. I have to support Win 7 at work every day, so I've got to keep going between that and 8, not to mention OS X. If all I used was 8 on the Windows side, yeah -- I'd get used to it eventually. But i don't think I'll ever *like* it. Too many things they changed around feel like they weren't done for good reasons. I do like the fact Win 8 has better performance though. Just think the entire Metro UI was a bad move.

>If I bring up how I moved to it easily, it's because I'm a techie.
>If I bring up a normal user, it's because they're not techies.

Reality be damned, W8 interface has to be bad.

 

[Adamsappel]

Windows 8 versions that can be downgraded to 7

[/IMG]

These will use the user's existing license key.

 

[charlesdayton]

This is strange considering that Windows 7 continues to be the most popular version of Windows. Windows 8 has a relatively low market share, specially on the business sector.

 

[BCWorld]

WOW. APPLE REALLY? Not good news!!

 

[MartiNZ]

I really don't understand anyone struggling to get used to Windows 8. For one thing, as soon as you have items on the taskbar, there is really only one thing different from how it was in Windows 7: the start menu is a series of screens instead of a menu. Everything else is totally optional - it is better, but it is still optional. Alt-F4 still lets you sleep/restart/shut down, so the charms aren't even essential. Everything else is ... right where you left it.

 

[Lumpydog]

This is not new news.

We've know this since late Dec

 

[laurim]

i have my doubts that the usual whiners here are actual nMP owners that are financially harmed by their workstation's inability to load win7 natively. and since this is a pro workstation, that's the market apple is steering for...which determines what they spend their money on supporting or not supporting. that some people on a rumor site dont like it or wish they could play games in win7 instead of 8 just doesnt factor into their decision-making.

also -- hate to burst any bubbles, but being vocal on a rumors site isnt going to change the cource of *any* unsatisfactory decision from apple.

Shows what you know. I OWN a nMacPro and will use it for my business, which includes delivering content during live meetings and shows. I charge a rental fee if I use my own computer. If my client wants to keep their presentations in Windows Powerpoint because they will be sending the final version to all their employees after the meeting, I HAVE to keep everything in Windows PowerPoint. And running huge 200+ slide presentations in virtual mode can be troublesome. I don't know about you, but I don't want my computer to lock up (really the software locking up or kicking out) or even just running poorly on a 30ft wide screen in front of thousands of people. So to avoid all that I have to invest in another copy of Windows when I already had a copy of Windows 7 ready to go.

 

[MagicBoy]

That sucks. Hurts the Enterprise credentials of the Mac Pro.

 

[ActionableMango]

Apple really needs to update Windows 8.1 drivers for the 2012 iMac's, there's still no proper support for my iMac with 675MX, I always get BSOD because of the nvidia audio driver, so had to use Windows 7 for now..

Forgive my possible ignorance on that particular model of Mac, but can't you just download the drivers from Nvidia? This is what I do with boot camp, because Nvidia updates the drivers far more often than Apple anyway.

I see 675MX Windows drivers available here:
http://www.geforce.com/drivers

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Why are you assuming running Bootcamp suggests someone is running Windows exclusively?



"Doesn't fit a wide use case" - given the adoption patterns of Windows 8 in many enterprise environments (low) and a desire to play well with others/use existing licenses, I don't think it's safe to necessarily write this off as an edge case.



Like I said, I find value in being able to run things on a system running Windows directly. Not saying there isn't a case to be made for virtualization in many cases, but "many" is not all. Almost everything I do is either processor bound or memory bound, and VMs impose an overhead on either - memory being the bigger issue in my case.

And given the transition to Thunderbolt-based peripherals is also necessary, needing a new copy of Windows 8 for "I just want a Windows install that works" is another tick up on the nMP's total cost of ownership.



Because they'd like to use a Mac most of the time?



Why are you assuming I can't be irked at more than one company at a time?



For many cases, it should be fine, but VMs impose an overhead that could be annoying.



This is...I can't even wrap my mind around it. Apple is still supporting Windows, they're just EOLing Windows 7 and Bootcamp support.



My concern would be drivers and AppleCare. Apple's pretty bad at "Well, you shouldn't have done that..." as a reason to deny AppleCare support.

Windows 8 supports UEFI properly. Apple has no vested interest in diverting engineering resources into Bootcamp to make multiple revisions of Windows remain a cohesive and pleasant experience.

The growth base is in OS X and iOS together, not switchers using Bootcamp.

Higher end Engineering Software is moving away from Windows 7, never mind Windows XP.

Example: ANSYS 16.0 Platform supports Win 7 64 bit, as it's last release. Everything moving forward is Windows 8+, Linux and OS X/iOS.

COMSOL, CATIA, SolidWorks are dropping all but Win7 64 bit and above.

Visual Studio minimums are moving to VS 2010/2012.

Microsoft is using LLVM/Clang in-house testing on a baseline of VS2012, and LLVM/Clang minimum for including Windows support is VS 2010.

Apple is moving to C++11 minimum full support across it's platforms. Compilers required to run on the platform need that compliance.

It's not just some willy nilly we can't stand to support Windows, but we aren't going to be dragged down by it.

 

[linuxcooldude]

You should also mention that Apple isn't actually actively selling MacOS X, while Windows 8 is a huge part of Microsoft's livelyhood. There is no doubt that Apple could easily double or triple MacOS X sales just by giving an OEM license to Dell, HP, Lenovo etc.

The profits that they would get would not be nearly enough to outweigh the loss of sales of Mac desktops/Laptops. They tried licensing it out before and it was severely undercut their mac sales.

 

[PracticalMac]

And WinXP comes in second with almost 30% of all Windoze computers.

My XP computer at work was replaced last week, and our critical development machines still run XP too.

The only reason people get Win7 and Win8 is because they get new computers and are unable to downgrade.

Apple, did MS pay you NOT to support older Windows???
(wait, is that Balmer by the back door????)


(complimentary image)

 

[0098386]

That's crazy. I hope there's a way around this because I don't want to use Windows 8 and I was planning on picking up a couple of MP's in a few months.

 

[jamesnajera]

MacBook Airs on ARM 64 coming?

 

[Navdakilla]

I still have windows 7 up and running on my 2011' imac. use it for gaming / autocad/drafting work.

 

[Marc-SP]

Even as a Windows fan, I wouldn't use Windows 8 if they paid me. It's a shame that Apple's dropping Windows 7 now, as this likely means future MacBooks won't support it either.

Any specific reason to dislike Windows 8 so much? or it is just visceral mindless hate?

 

[Tech198]

There is a way around it, don't use the Mac Pro as a Mac Pro

Wipe the SSSD, and install Windows 7.


On better yet, you Parallels or VMware fusion

The business side is moving to Vm anyway, so this kind of make sense,

My mates work-place runs a server with multiple VM's each can be backed up, and/or/or managed remotely.

There no sense in talking lack of performance since the Mac Pro is a power-house, and you can restore it in seconds, versus restoring a physical partition.

In short, i'm in favour of this.

 

[Marc-SP]

"Given it's advanced age"

LOL....

Apple is used to kills support for every OSx release after a few years. So, from an Apple point of view it is "advanced age".
Companies are already having trouble abandoning Windows XP after 14 years, and being warned several years in advance of its EOL. I wonder what would they do if they switched to OSX...

 

[Marc-SP]

Windows 8 is a nightmare.

To me a "nightmare" OS means something like:

• Constant crashes
• General hardware incompatibility
• Slugish performance
• Critical security issues

...
Windows 8.1 has none of that issues. Actually is better than Windows 7. And 2 of that issues could be applicable to OSX and iOS, hehe .
Why do you consider Window 8 a nightmare?

I use Windows 8 daily on a old non-touchscreen laptop, and I enjoy it. I understand you might not like W8 for personal reasons, but that doesn't make it a nightmare. At all.

 

[dukebound85]

Nothing like removing the competition

explain why apple offers bootcamp at all with that logic...

 

[bwillwall]

people don't drop $3000 on a computer to run windows 7 or 8. That's just insulting. with that many cores, just put Parallels or VMWare on that and be done with it. Running Windows on that is plain criminal and Apple should confiscate the new Mac Pro and give it to a better class of user.

Yeah? Well some of us need Windows and prefer to have it run natively for gaming.

 

[iolinux333]

I really don't understand anyone struggling to get used to Windows 8. For one thing, as soon as you have items on the taskbar, there is really only one thing different from how it was in Windows 7: the start menu is a series of screens instead of a menu. Everything else is totally optional - it is better, but it is still optional. Alt-F4 still lets you sleep/restart/shut down, so the charms aren't even essential. Everything else is ... right where you left it.

I don't struggle on Win8. I just think it's ugly icky looking and ugly icky to use. It's like a beat up ford pinto. I know how to drive it I just refuse to.

 

[Tech198]

I really don't understand anyone struggling to get used to Windows 8. For one thing, as soon as you have items on the taskbar, there is really only one thing different from how it was in Windows 7: the start menu is a series of screens instead of a menu. Everything else is totally optional - it is better, but it is still optional. Alt-F4 still lets you sleep/restart/shut down, so the charms aren't even essential. Everything else is ... right where you left it.

I guess its mostly about the fact that Microsoft blew it with the Metro Screen.

Some people like it, some people don't.... And yes, even though the option to boot straight to desktop in 8.1 exists, it didn't come as shipped from factory, with Windows 8... You had yo upgrade to remove this

Users must upgrade, even then must be up-to-date. And according to what i've heard doesn't always work well. Maybe also. from the Metro stand-point, it shares similarity to Windows Phone. Not the only grudge, but this would play a part a would guess too. My sister wants to go back to Windows 7, since she can't be bothered getting "up-to-date" just to install something from MS just to have this ability.

I dunno, but that's probably the main issue. I'm sure there are others, but Windows 7 just works. (I hate saying that on an Apple forum....)

Besides, proof on the pudding on statistics that a low number of people use Windows 8... Stats don't lie.