Apple Drops Windows 7 Boot Camp Support in New Mac Pro

[unplugme71]

That's the stuff I don't get. I understand that Job's vision was to have great consumer products. Appliances as he said. But why is it so hard for Apple to recognize that a significant chunk of their customers (back in the days and increasingly so today) are professionals who need to get stuff done? And that can be the creative crowd as well as the account type crowd that more than ever is drawn to the nice hardware (via mobile devices or not).

And with that come certain requirements. I wish I could switch over to OS X. I really like it. But it lacks still a number of things. Windows 8 is a joke and not often used in the professional/office realm. Windows 7 is the standard (with XP still being around by the way). And for good reason.

On my Mac I can't use MS Access or MS Project. On my Mac (Mavericks) I can't get a VPN connection to my office (I don't care who's to blame but it worked before Mavericks and it works on my Windows machines). That alone is a big factor.

If I didn't have Windows machines in the house I'd need an installation of Windows 7. if they take that away they drive away customers like me who for exactly those reasons never bought a Mac until very recently (as a dedicated machine for photography and audio recording). It's a shame. The usual office schmocks are ready and willing to buy more Apple products. They like their iPhones and iPads. Don't stand in their way, please. And this is an appeal to both Apple and Microsoft. It's the 21st century. I shouldn't have to fiddle with email server settings and calendar sync issues and VPN access problems and CD image incompatibilities anymore.

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Because, unfortunately, their own OS has a number of flaws and missing features. I'd prefer they fix those. But in the meantime, unfortunately, grown-ups still need to refer back to Windows 7 every now and so often.

I don't buy a PC and expect them to support OS X because there's a few easier things on a Mac OS I can do vs Windows. So again, why should Apple support Windows to begin with?

If you don't like the Apple OS, switch back to a PC.

----------

I agree. I use Win 7 and Boot Camp/VMware almost daily and I'm glad that I can, but I really don't see how people can get so ticked off at a company for not supporting a competing OS. In my opinion, we should be thankful that Apple doesn't stop supporting Boot Camp all together...

I like the fact I can run Windows in bootcamp but I also know not to put all my eggs in it. I run Windows with the assumption it may not be supported tomorrow. I do plan on building my own PC for this reason so I can do testing/development on the Windows side as well - freeing up space on the SSD on the Mac.

 

[b_scott]

wtf? why is this being done?

 

[7enderbender]

I don't buy a PC and expect them to support OS X because there's a few easier things on a Mac OS I can do vs Windows. So again, why should Apple support Windows to begin with?

If you don't like the Apple OS, switch back to a PC.

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I like the fact I can run Windows in bootcamp but I also know not to put all my eggs in it. I run Windows with the assumption it may not be supported tomorrow. I do plan on building my own PC for this reason so I can do testing/development on the Windows side as well - freeing up space on the SSD on the Mac.

Why so hostile? And why support something that from a mid-term business perspective is not beneficial to either company?

I like OS X. More than I expected. For my music production stuff I'm glad I switched to Logic. Exactly fits my needs as a musician first and "producer" second. It also works great for my photo stuff. Not really a huge difference given that I use Adobe products but I'm still happy.
General purpose stuff? All feels very comfortable and actually more "at home" than Windows 8.

The problems start when it comes to business/office professional use. I tried the Apple equivalents and they're junk in my opinion. Open Office is kind of meh. Works but still. So back to Microsoft it was with this. And guess what, I actually like the Mac version of my office 365 version better than what runs on Windows. So much, that I'll be switching over my wife's home office to Macs (iMac plus Mac Book pro, so that's another three grand going towards Apple). So I'm not going back because I'm 90% happy - which is more than I'd ever be with Windows 8 (assuming that buying now into more machines running Win 7 is not really a good idea at this point). The hardware seems very very good (with a few minor nuisances).

But if Apple and MS want me really really happy then find a way that I can run all the other industry standards without keeping a Windows machine around. Example: I'll be switching into a new professional role soon and in my new environment Macs are standard. That's great from all I know now. But I'll be coming in as a bit of a business guy and number cruncher. So having access to MS Project and MS Access would just be the additional 10% happiness if you will. I don't think that's being picky or unfair towards all the wonderful achievements of Apple (past and present).

They've gained back a significant market share that now goes beyond just creative types (who must have their own gripes with both systems - I do with regard to Apple's lack of disc burning options) or kids sitting around at Starbucks. If they want to play an important role with people who want to use their Macs for number crunching/project management stuff now is the time to come up with some ideas.

 

[unplugme71]

Why so hostile? And why support something that from a mid-term business perspective is not beneficial to either company?

I like OS X. More than I expected. For my music production stuff I'm glad I switched to Logic. Exactly fits my needs as a musician first and "producer" second. It also works great for my photo stuff. Not really a huge difference given that I use Adobe products but I'm still happy.
General purpose stuff? All feels very comfortable and actually more "at home" than Windows 8.

The problems start when it comes to business/office professional use. I tried the Apple equivalents and they're junk in my opinion. Open Office is kind of meh. Works but still. So back to Microsoft it was with this. And guess what, I actually like the Mac version of my office 365 version better than what runs on Windows. So much, that I'll be switching over my wife's home office to Macs (iMac plus Mac Book pro, so that's another three grand going towards Apple). So I'm not going back because I'm 90% happy - which is more than I'd ever be with Windows 8 (assuming that buying now into more machines running Win 7 is not really a good idea at this point). The hardware seems very very good (with a few minor nuisances).

But if Apple and MS want me really really happy then find a way that I can run all the other industry standards without keeping a Windows machine around. Example: I'll be switching into a new professional role soon and in my new environment Macs are standard. That's great from all I know now. But I'll be coming in as a bit of a business guy and number cruncher. So having access to MS Project and MS Access would just be the additional 10% happiness if you will. I don't think that's being picky or unfair towards all the wonderful achievements of Apple (past and present).

They've gained back a significant market share that now goes beyond just creative types (who must have their own gripes with both systems - I do with regard to Apple's lack of disc burning options) or kids sitting around at Starbucks. If they want to play an important role with people who want to use their Macs for number crunching/project management stuff now is the time to come up with some ideas.

I'm not hostile. I just don't like how people complain about Apple ditching support for Windows 7. Apple is a forward moving company. They don't support their older OS's. New hardware, new OS. That's Apple's pattern/strategy and everyone knows it.

Microsoft however, will allow you to run Win7 on much older hardware. They like and support legacy stuff. That's their strategy for the time being.

I have to use both. There are so many professional apps in my day-to-day work that requires Windows. This is why I have a windows laptop for work. To run things like Visio, SQL Server, Oracle/BI/OBIEE Admin, Informatica, SharePoint, Excel (Numbers isn't powerful enough), etc..

 

[Martyimac]

So you're hacking a Mac Pro desktop to use as a PC. Interesting. I'm guessing it's for the drivers - else you probably could do a decent job with Mac Fusion and get the best of both worlds.

But don't worry - there's been a *lot* of this kind of thing happening recently and I'm guessing support will return. Seems like Mavericks was more immature than usual.

jdiamond, this post is not aimed at you, yours was just the latest to quote me.

So, everybody jumps on me to tell my how crazy I am to want to run Windows 7 on a nMP. But what nobody realized was that this comment was not meant to be taken all that seriously. The only truthful part is that I WANT a nMP. The unsaid part is that I have absolutely NO good reason to buy one other than the fact I think they are cool.
So my post was kind of a "What do I tell the wife now?" kind of post. Unfortunately satire and tongue-in-cheek don't come across will in a forum like this.

And that is why I didn't respond to all the other posts. But it is still a shame that has decided not to support W7 on the nMP.

 

[7enderbender]

I'm not hostile. I just don't like how people complain about Apple ditching support for Windows 7. Apple is a forward moving company. They don't support their older OS's. New hardware, new OS. That's Apple's pattern/strategy and everyone knows it.

Microsoft however, will allow you to run Win7 on much older hardware. They like and support legacy stuff. That's their strategy for the time being.

I have to use both. There are so many professional apps in my day-to-day work that requires Windows. This is why I have a windows laptop for work. To run things like Visio, SQL Server, Oracle/BI/OBIEE Admin, Informatica, SharePoint, Excel (Numbers isn't powerful enough), etc..

I get it. And you and I are on the same page really it seems. I personally just find it disappointing that I have to keep old separate systems around to be fully functional. I understand and can appreciate the Jobs dogma of integration. Just finished the biography and find a lot of it very intriguing actually (as much as I may disagree with a number of other things that he stood for).

And it's not really about running Win7 on a Mac or not (I don't). I just find it a bit sad that all the stuff that you list is not easily available on Macs. Not always Apple's fault, I know. But it's frustrating when you start working with these great machines, everything works near flawlessly - and then you hit the wall because the silly old VPN connection won't work and nobody can figure out why - which then leads to me pulling up my ancient XP machine via remote connection just to get something done that should be a no-issue in this day and age.

 

[iMember]

Shame on you Apple! for releasing Windows 8

 

[Liquorpuki]

That's the stuff I don't get. I understand that Job's vision was to have great consumer products. Appliances as he said. But why is it so hard for Apple to recognize that a significant chunk of their customers (back in the days and increasingly so today) are professionals who need to get stuff done? And that can be the creative crowd as well as the account type crowd that more than ever is drawn to the nice hardware (via mobile devices or not).

Apple's business strategy is to get their hardware in as many hands as people as possible. Their profit stream comes from hardware so they treat software as just another bullet point to get people to buy hardware. Their strategy is to commoditize software so they can get it in the hands of as many consumers as possible and drive hardware sales. They do this by making software cheap (OSX = free, iWorks = $10/$20, Aperture/Logic = $400 pricedrops) and simple (so you don't have to be technically literate to use it). You wanna know why they had no problem dropping features for iWorks or alienating Pro users with the FCX redesign, it's because they were focusing on the masses of grandmas and technology unsavvy future customers increased accessibility from dropping features would bring in. They weren't focusing on Pro users who need these features.

The whole sw commoditization strategy works against Pro users. Software that isn't commoditized is specialized, valuable, and expensive. The masses need simple stuff that can be met by cheap featureless software. The much smaller pro group needs expensive software. Apple makes their profit from hardware, not software so which group do you think they're gonna appease?

I'm in the Pro group so I don't buy much Apple stuff anymore. They make the best hardware on the planet IMO. But I need that hardware to do complex software related stuff for me, not just surf the web and check my email.

 

[na1577]

Are you someone that has actually spent a considerable amount of time with OS X and Windows 8 and chose Windows 7 over both, or are you just someone who mostly has spent time in Windows 95 - 7 and have determined Windows 7 was the best of them?

I'm just curious what people see in it - I rarely find anyone who has actually spent time with OS X (or any *nix) and decided that Windows was better.

I've used OS X since 2009, and have used countless versions of Windows, from Windows 95 all the way to Windows 8. I gave 8 a shot during the consumer preview and later owned a Windows 8 tablet. Currently, I dual boot with Mavericks and Windows 7.

I'm not a fan of the way OS X handles window management and task switching (dock/Spaces/cmd+tab) and I despise Finder. The Notification Center is naggy and can't be stopped completely.

For browsing the web, OS X is fine. I'm using it right at this moment actually. But if I'm doing any real work, I prefer the Windows environment.

 

[MartiNZ]

I've used OS X since 2009, and have used countless versions of Windows, from Windows 95 all the way to Windows 8. I gave 8 a shot during the consumer preview and later owned a Windows 8 tablet. Currently, I dual boot with Mavericks and Windows 7.

I'm not a fan of the way OS X handles window management and task switching (dock/Spaces/cmd+tab) and I despise Finder. The Notification Center is naggy and can't be stopped completely.

For browsing the web, OS X is fine. I'm using it right at this moment actually. But if I'm doing any real work, I prefer the Windows environment.

I've been through Windows '95, '98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8; System 7, Mac OS 8, 9, X 10.1.2 all the way through 10.7.1 with significant usage. Favourites: Snow Leopard, Windows 8, 7 and Vista. 2000 was also really good for its time.

I am looking to return maybe next update to having a MacBook Pro and dual-booting, but Lion's introduction of resume and versions features especially, and the inability to turn them off consistently. Versions was terrible, the only outright destructive feature I've known in an OS, and I was already dual-booting Windows 7 for work, so it wasn't a hard switch.

Windows 8 was a day-one purchase, and I have never looked back - in fact managed to get a work machine upgraded to use it today, so I might not use my laptop at work anymore, for the first time in years !

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

I'm not a fan of the way OS X handles window management and task switching (dock/Spaces/cmd+tab) and I despise Finder.

What's wrong with the window management? If it's window snapping that you're missing, I use BetterTouchTool (free plugin) to mimic that feature from Windows 7. I can't think of anything else that Windows has in this department that OS X lacks (although I have to admit, I haven't used Windows 8 at all - every demonstration booth I try it at in stores just crashes moments after I touch it - so maybe it has some other features I'm not familiar with).

What's wrong with the Finder? I know the File Explorer on Windows is total garbage so I'm surprised you would diss the Finder. What can File Explorer possibly have on Finder? (Again, I haven't used Windows 8, so maybe it was completely revamped from 7, but it looks like it has hardly changed since 95, so I kind of doubt that).

I'm working on my own GUI file browser which is cross platform (so it'll run on OS X, Windows, and Linux) and so I know of some major new features nobody has ever seen before (other than coworkers who, without fail, have their minds blown when they see it) that I'll be putting in my browser. I mostly just copied the Finder, discarded a few features that weren't necessary after my changes, and then added my new features. I'm interested in hearing what you like about File Explorer - I was just taking it for granted that if my browser was better than Finder, it would automatically be better than File Explorer, too.

The Notification Center is naggy and can't be stopped completely.

I can't say I have this problem... on my 24" screen I rarely notice notifications in the top corner. They're neither super useful nor annoying.

 

[MacOG728893]

Can someone please list me five main reasons Windows 8.1 is unstable?

 

[Dranix]

It is stable. People are just stupid.

 

[na1577]

I've been through Windows '95, '98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8; System 7, Mac OS 8, 9, X 10.1.2 all the way through 10.7.1 with significant usage. Favourites: Snow Leopard, Windows 8, 7 and Vista. 2000 was also really good for its time.

I went 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7, and tried out 8. For OS X, I've used 10.5, 10.6, 10.8, 10.9. My memories of the earlier Windows versions is pretty fuzzy at this point, but I've loved pretty much every release except for 8. For OS X, my favorite was Snow Leopard. Mavericks is good, though a bit quirkier.

What's wrong with the Finder? I know the File Explorer on Windows is total garbage so I'm surprised you would diss the Finder. What can File Explorer possibly have on Finder? (Again, I haven't used Windows 8, so maybe it was completely revamped from 7, but it looks like it has hardly changed since 95, so I kind of doubt that). <snip> I'm interested in hearing what you like about File Explorer - I was just taking it for granted that if my browser was better than Finder, it would automatically be better than File Explorer, too.

I can't say I have this problem... on my 24" screen I rarely notice notifications in the top corner. They're neither super useful nor annoying.

Window snapping as you mentioned was one of the features I was referring to with window management. I also prefer app/window switching in the taskbar versus Spaces and the dock. To be fair, I don't use the default taskbar style in Windows 7. Mine looks like this, which can be achieved by changing the settings; no plugins necessary. I also love the peek feature.

Windows Explorer was revamped in Windows 8 and is even better than the old version. It's one of the few things that I miss about 8. Things I don't like in Finder: the default "all my files" view (not sure why anybody would want this), less intuitive "go to folder", the get info window, mass renaming of files, files don't snap to the grid by default. I've tweaked a lot of my settings that solve some of my headaches, but I'd still much rather use Windows Explorer.

I disabled notifications for everything but MacRumors and iMessage, but it is not possible to disable notifications for the App Store. In Mountain Lion, a notification would appear every 15 minutes or so reminding you that there are updates to install. This is improved in Mavericks, because you can dismiss it for a full day... but it would be better to turn them off completely.

It all comes down to preferences. OS X isn't a bad operating system but I prefer to use Windows 7. The main reason why I own a Mac is because of Apple's unparalleled hardware quality. It just so happens that I also get the bonus of being able to dual boot with OS X, because then I have the opportunity to experience different OSes and use Mac-exclusive programs like Garageband.

Can someone please list me five main reasons Windows 8.1 is unstable?

Windows 8.1 is perfectly stable, more stable than 7. Most people who don't like 8/8.1 don't like the split personality touch/desktop interface.

 

[UBS28]

Someone please explain to me why the hate for Windows 8 / 8.1?

Missing the Start menu? Install a 3rd-party one. Done. StartIsBack, Start8, Classic Shell, etc.

Other than that, the big difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 are the rounded windows of 7 vs squared windows of 8/8.1.

It's just the entire GUI, not just only the start menu. If you put in enough time, maybe you can adjust the GUI to something useable.

The performance of Windows 8 is great though. If I just can get rid of the entire Metro interface and it's apps, that would be great

 

[LordVic]

What's wrong with the window management? If it's window snapping that you're missing, I use BetterTouchTool (free plugin) to mimic that feature from Windows 7. I can't think of anything else that Windows has in this department that OS X lacks (although I have to admit, I haven't used Windows 8 at all - every demonstration booth I try it at in stores just crashes moments after I touch it - so maybe it has some other features I'm not familiar with).

What's wrong with the Finder? I know the File Explorer on Windows is total garbage so I'm surprised you would diss the Finder. What can File Explorer possibly have on Finder? (Again, I haven't used Windows 8, so maybe it was completely revamped from 7, but it looks like it has hardly changed since 95, so I kind of doubt that).

I'm working on my own GUI file browser which is cross platform (so it'll run on OS X, Windows, and Linux) and so I know of some major new features nobody has ever seen before (other than coworkers who, without fail, have their minds blown when they see it) that I'll be putting in my browser. I mostly just copied the Finder, discarded a few features that weren't necessary after my changes, and then added my new features. I'm interested in hearing what you like about File Explorer - I was just taking it for granted that if my browser was better than Finder, it would automatically be better than File Explorer, too.



I can't say I have this problem... on my 24" screen I rarely notice notifications in the top corner. They're neither super useful nor annoying.

see, I find it exact opposite (just proving that user experience is not consistent amongst the users, and not some universal global objective thing)

I find in OSx, the way to start programs is not as intuitive. having to open finder, go to applications is counter intuitive. Openning your file explorer to launch programs? what silly nonsense is that! Or using spotlight? no thanks. Using launchpad? its about as effective as Metro.

The Dock behaviour as well is not very clear as to what is happening. aside from that little 'light' under the icon, there's no real indication as to what is currently running, how many windows it has running, or to even quickly change between windows.

Finder itself is a terrible "file manager". it attempts to hard to make the actual file system invisible and blocked off from the user. OSx has actually a terrible real file management tool. in their attempt to "black box" the OS, they have severely gimped the power of the standard user tools. And it's default behaviour on launch, even after tweaks drives me nuts. Windows file manager is exactly that. A full file manager that gives you full file access to your system. From root partitions down to the very last tree. you can easily find and navigate through. The search functionality is greater reaching, finds more stuff (tested) and is just generally smarter. When you want to do filemanagement in your computer, you dont generally want to be boxed in, with hidden files.

And yes, Windows managing in OSx is terrible by default, forcing you to find or buy 3rd party tools. There is no way to easily maximize the screen (Not fullscreen, thats a terrible alternative), there's no way to 'snap' to corneres, or sides (which is the best feature of Windows7+ UI imho). and again, cause of the Dock behaviour there is no real way fo knowing without customization how many programs or what programs are actually currently running and taking resources.

However, I do generally like OSx's look better. its more minimalistic and less "cartoonish". That appeals to me. And there are some very useful and powerful tools in OSx that make it decent to use.

Windows 7 and 8 desktop on the other hand has these extremely useful features. Say what you want about the Metro start screen (which i never touch). the actual Windows UI is extremely intuitive. You want to launch a program, you go to the same spot everytime. you dont have to search for it cause it is there, no matter what. The start button. (ok, except in windows8). everyone who sits at a windows computer knows this giant button with the windows logo is where you click first when you want to do something. Microsoft nailed it with the start menu.

programs that are running are distinct on the task bar. there's no mistaking what is actually running and what is just a docked shortcut. There is a noticable 3d and coloured affect that stands out, and multiple windows are indicated by graphically showing stacks of programs on it. you can easily open any window of that program by simply hovering your mouse over the icon and seeing exactly what is open and how many instances. Even if you are not computer savy, and dont know what a "right click is", you can easily see what is up and running.

Does windows do everything great, of course not. It's a bit of bulk compared to OSx. a fresh install at nearly 20GB is massive compared to Mavericks 10GB. It does require more resources overall to run, however by Windows 8 that gap has been severely shrunk.


Listen, I'm not trying to say one is better than the other. Both OS's have their merits, strengths and weaknesses. But OSx isn't the "BEST UI EVER". There are a lot of people who won't make the move to Apple computer because they do not like the UI of OSx. and I know it's anecdotal, but I do know several people who have tried to go OSx and after a while ditched it because its basic UI concepts are not nearly as straight forward as Windows current systems.

 

[Dranix]

Windows is not more logical - It simply is what the users have been trained to do. Case in point the backslash for Windows8, it's not really bad but the users cry out because their trained behaviour doesn't work anymore.

 

[unplugme71]

I get it. And you and I are on the same page really it seems. I personally just find it disappointing that I have to keep old separate systems around to be fully functional. I understand and can appreciate the Jobs dogma of integration. Just finished the biography and find a lot of it very intriguing actually (as much as I may disagree with a number of other things that he stood for).

And it's not really about running Win7 on a Mac or not (I don't). I just find it a bit sad that all the stuff that you list is not easily available on Macs. Not always Apple's fault, I know. But it's frustrating when you start working with these great machines, everything works near flawlessly - and then you hit the wall because the silly old VPN connection won't work and nobody can figure out why - which then leads to me pulling up my ancient XP machine via remote connection just to get something done that should be a no-issue in this day and age.

If Microsoft created their apps to work on the Mac platform as well - then there'd be less of a reason to buy Windows 7 or 8. I prefer iWork over Office anyway on my Mac and I'm shocked MSFT even has Office on the Mac. I wouldn't expect to see Access, Visio, etc ever.

Microsoft is seeing a decline in Windows Server sales because a lot of the reason why companies bought WS was due to Exchange and MS SQL. But with 3rd party tools working better/cheaper, there's less a reason to run WS. Most of ours for example run Linux and Oracle.

As for other apps that don't support Mac, well there's probably not that much demand for them yet. It takes a lot of effort to design an app for a new OS rather than port. You also need to hire staff that understand Mac OS X and user experience. To only sell 50-100 copies is not worth the effort.

I'm glad that software has picked up a lot on the Mac and as it grows more developers will move over. Luckily a lot of software also has a web equivalent so its not that bad.

 

[7enderbender]

Apple's business strategy is to get their hardware in as many hands as people as possible. Their profit stream comes from hardware so they treat software as just another bullet point to get people to buy hardware. Their strategy is to commoditize software so they can get it in the hands of as many consumers as possible and drive hardware sales. They do this by making software cheap (OSX = free, iWorks = $10/$20, Aperture/Logic = $400 pricedrops) and simple (so you don't have to be technically literate to use it). You wanna know why they had no problem dropping features for iWorks or alienating Pro users with the FCX redesign, it's because they were focusing on the masses of grandmas and technology unsavvy future customers increased accessibility from dropping features would bring in. They weren't focusing on Pro users who need these features.

The whole sw commoditization strategy works against Pro users. Software that isn't commoditized is specialized, valuable, and expensive. The masses need simple stuff that can be met by cheap featureless software. The much smaller pro group needs expensive software. Apple makes their profit from hardware, not software so which group do you think they're gonna appease?

I'm in the Pro group so I don't buy much Apple stuff anymore. They make the best hardware on the planet IMO. But I need that hardware to do complex software related stuff for me, not just surf the web and check my email.

Exactly right. And that's all good to a point. The (business) question were I Tim Cook would be how many more grandmas are there? How saturated am I already with trust fund hippies sitting at Starbucks with the MacPros playing Candy Crush?

My example is pretty concrete with regard to the business pro side. How much is there to gain? I think a lot even that may have seemed far fetched a while ago. But remember when Blackberries ruled the business world in the US? Now it's iPhones. Everywhere and always. And guess what, a lot of folks actually like them (even though the email integration on the iPhone actually stinks compared to what we were used to...). So now why make it hard for your sales force or whatever to walk into a clients office with a sleek and sturdy Mac Book? Why do you need a stupid adapter to hook it up to projector? Why can't I get into my SharePoint site easily? You get the idea.

So it's maybe time to tap into that potential - by at least doing something with other software vendors (MS in particular) to get things working for people like me and you. Maybe MS is blocking it too. But it should be in their interest to at least sell the expensive professional software (since people aren't catching up with Win 8 anyway).

I work for a healthcare provider and I'll probably start working for a bunch of researchers. They are all Mac and always have been. So I thought, great, I'll get to work with that hardware and OS at work now too. But I have to scramble to get the tools I need for standard business stuff that they need me to do. It would be sad if I had to go and get another poorly built and overpriced HP laptop just to be operational.

 

[AppleWarMachine]

good thing I have Windows 7 on my iMac

 

[Durentis]

This news is really old.. support was dropped prior to the first nMP units being shipped - the outdated support docs (no mention of Win8.1) at that time didn't even offer Win7 support.

That said, I'd say there are three primary reasons for the lack of Win7 support. UEFI, (thermal?) stability, and Apple's focus on everyone running the latest updated OS on their hardware. The latter has a huge positive impact on developers and support requirements.

Win8 is rightfully disdained as a schizophrenic mess. Win8.1, on the otherhand, is very solid and at least allows you to suppress its most intolerable personality. With a few quick tweaks, I was booting into desktop mode and only see apps (not tiles!) when hitting the windows key by accident. In fact, the tiles and Windows store don't exist as far as my usage of Win8.1 is concerned.. out of sight, out of mind. It looks and feels much like Win7.

If you want the latest DirectX for gaming (and why wouldn't you with the nMP if you're a gamer), you need Win8.1. Microsoft continues to bump the OS requirement with each minor DirectX patch.

The D700s in Win8.1 have CrossFireX enabled automatically as well, which was quite nice to see. (I don't know if the same is true for the D3/500s.)

To each their own but, though Apple has made a number of terrible/unfortunate decisions (such as no native resolution support on the 15" MacBook Retina), not supporting Win7 on the nMP isn't one of them, imo.

 

[Cubytus]

My mom, who used to refer to Internet Explorer as "the internet" and couldn't figure out why here printer wasn't working (didn't choose it on the list) is able to use Windows 8 just like she used Windows 7.

It took me about 10 minutes to get her used to it.

Good, your mother is trained to Windows. So is mine. Being "able" to use Windows with such an elementary understanding of it may in fact not be too complicated, and I bet my mom may not have too much trouble either. She would be lost however if Photoshop lost its interface like Windows 8 did. Arguably Windows power users since Win 2000 may be the most affected by the brutal change.

Windows 7 does not support secure boot, and while Windows 7 technically supports UEFI it would require Apple to both disable secure boot and develop a backwards compatible video firmware.

Windows is simply less advanced than OS X, technically. Apple always claimed it, and could have just shared a warning with users who want to get real job done with Windows anyway.

Windows 7 is at End of Life (EOL) and you all know it! 5 years is an eternity in the World of cutting edge Computer Science. I bet Apple had to resort to writing new Windows drivers to get Windows 7 to work on the 2013 Mac Pro!

EOL? It just replaced Win XP on college's computers a year and a half ago! Print servers still run XP. And no plans to move to Windows 8.

Windows 8.1 Update 1 will alleviate many major complaints about Windows 8, such as booting directly into the desktop, and that will be supported by this new version of Boot Camp where a Windows license will cost around 4% of a Mac Pro.

Waiting forward for this upgrade. Windows 8.1 is still not fully addressing Win 8 shortcomings.

Some people are apparently stuck in 1995 and can't handle the start screen (launchpad) replacing the start menu.

Oh, and the option of running tablet apps on the desktop is the worst thing to ever happen to an operating system. (no, it isn't)
Either you will ignore them, or you will appreciate not having to own a tablet to have access to them. I'd love to be able to run a few select iPad apps on my MacBook Pro.

While I do praise the idea of being able to run tablet apps on a traditional desktops (Apple, that's for you!), assuming we ALL want a tablet-oriented interface on a non-touch-screen is bad design. A great number of laptop PCs just bought and loaded with the "Windows tax" aren't touchscreen and just feel awkward, while higher-end models with touchscreen at least feel more natural, even if the ergonomics of raising an arm to touch a large screen aren't great (one of the reasons Apple refused to include touchscreen on its laptops if I'm not mistaken).

I hate the Launchpad as much as the Metro interface, and in fact disabled it altogether on my Lion machine. Makes sense on an i-device, just not on a plain screen laptop.

When people have to install third-party tweaks to regain core OS functionality, that means there's a problem with the OS that the developer needs to fix.

I have little doubt that Microsoft will eventually bring back a Start menu of sorts -- even if it works and acts a little differently than it did in XP and 7. Microsoft tried to cram a tablet-esque UI/UX down Windows users' throats in Windows 8. They attempted to shift the users' primary focus to Metro by taking core things out of the "classic" Desktop experience like the Start menu. I think the last year or two have shown us that the big push for Metro on desktop PCs was a big miscalculation on Microsoft's part.

A friend and I commonly repeat this to users coming with "sick" Windows PC as they ask why he needs to perform so many long steps to get their machine back to its feet: "Windows needs crutches to work properly". True, it's quite long to manually uninstall malwares, reboot, update, install proper antivirus, reboot, install two or three reputed anti-malwares, update, scan the machine.

I went 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7, and tried out 8. For OS X, I've used 10.5, 10.6, 10.8, 10.9. My memories of the earlier Windows versions is pretty fuzzy at this point, but I've loved pretty much every release except for 8. For OS X, my favorite was Snow Leopard. Mavericks is good, though a bit quirkier.

You never used Lion, then? I still run SL as my daily driver, chiefly because of its "just right" look/contrast/"doesn't get in your way"-thing and Rosetta (Apple never released a scanner software on par with the original one, which is unfortunately Power PC with no upgrade in sight ("abandon-ware"). All following OS X versions feel inferior, visually speaking.
What's uncomfortable about Mavericks?

I used Win 98, 2000, a bit of XP at college, then 7 and 8 occasionally in VMs. Really liked 2000 and 7.

I disabled notifications for everything but MacRumors and iMessage, but it is not possible to disable notifications for the App Store. In Mountain Lion, a notification would appear every 15 minutes or so reminding you that there are updates to install. This is improved in Mavericks, because you can dismiss it for a full day... but it would be better to turn them off completely.

Is there a command line to introduce to prevent it from loading at login altogether? Wastes precious top bar space on a 13".

Windows 8.1 is perfectly stable, more stable than 7. Most people who don't like 8/8.1 don't like the split personality touch/desktop interface.

That is, indeed, what I called not knowing what kind of dialog/window will come up next. Keep the touch interface for real touchscreens/tablet emulation, and default to standard GUI for non-touchscreen PCs. Shouldn't be too hard for MSFT.

I find in OSx, the way to start programs is not as intuitive. having to open finder, go to applications is counter intuitive. Openning your file explorer to launch programs? what silly nonsense is that! Or using spotlight? no thanks. Using launchpad? its about as effective as Metro.

Spotlight isn't bad to launch programs. I do prefer Quicksilver, though. No need to dig in your HDD if you don't like.

or to even quickly change between windows.

cmd + Tab?

Finder itself is a terrible "file manager". it attempts to hard to make the actual file system invisible and blocked off from the user. OSx has actually a terrible real file management tool. in their attempt to "black box" the OS, they have severely gimped the power of the standard user tools. And it's default behaviour on launch, even after tweaks drives me nuts. Windows file manager is exactly that. A full file manager that gives you full file access to your system. From root partitions down to the very last tree. you can easily find and navigate through. The search functionality is greater reaching, finds more stuff (tested) and is just generally smarter. When you want to do filemanagement in your computer, you dont generally want to be boxed in, with hidden files.

Windows defaults to hiding system folders, just as OS X since Lion. And both OS can have this annoying feature disabled for power users.

There is no way to easily maximize the screen (Not fullscreen, thats a terrible alternative)

That's because maximize has been deemed a stupid use of precious screen real estate by Apple's designers. And I tend to agree. Why would you want to mask what's behind a window with only a small content? Granted, it could be made more intelligent, but basic functionality isn't that bad.

there's no way to 'snap' to corneres, or sides (which is the best feature of Windows7+ UI imho). and again, cause of the Dock behaviour there is no real way fo knowing without customization how many programs or what programs are actually currently running and taking resources.

Phew, we escaped the "snap" behavior, which is a real pain on smaller screens as you try to arrange windows to only show the useful part of an info.

Have you actually taken a look at your Dock? Mine clearly shows which GUI programs are running.

You want to launch a program, you go to the same spot everytime. you dont have to search for it cause it is there, no matter what.

Yes and no. While it was true in pre-Win8 times, flattened colors and no apparent hierarchy in the Metro interface with no really distinct colors make finding a program more difficult than previously.

programs that are running are distinct on the task bar. there's no mistaking what is actually running and what is just a docked shortcut.

In Win 7 that's been quite difficult to tell for most people I encountered.

Even if you are not computer savy, and dont know what a "right click is", you can easily see what is up and running.

You never actually talked to a computer-illiterate guy or girl, and it shows. Such people even have a hard time understanding the concept of storage place, and happily blend Internet dynamic search results, actual documents, what's on a USB key, what is stored locally, etc. We could blame MSFT for not showing local storage first in Explorer, but other, useless cloud or machine-related options, but in the ends user ignorance is reinforced by bad design. Some of the more dynamic ones actually ask the help desk to replace Windows 8 with Windows 7, a move the tech guy isn't authorized to do.

and I know it's anecdotal, but I do know several people who have tried to go OSx and after a while ditched it because its basic UI concepts are not nearly as straight forward as Windows current systems.

I do see many people having issues with machines. Exactly one reverted to Windows after not being able to "click" on OS X. Many others take a while to understand OS X UI (that's why I recommend switching between sessions, not in the middle), but once they get it, they would never come back to Win needlessly convoluted UI that seemed comfortable because they just learnt it.

 

[MartiNZ]

Window snapping as you mentioned was one of the features I was referring to with window management. I also prefer app/window switching in the taskbar versus Spaces and the dock. To be fair, I don't use the default taskbar style in Windows 7. Mine looks like this, which can be achieved by changing the settings; no plugins necessary. I also love the peek feature.

It's really interesting how we all work differently. I never liked working with maximise in Windows, and I can't stand the window snap, it is the first thing I turn off, along with peek lol. I really like the default taskbar, much more than I did the old style one. I was certainly not a fan of Dock/Spaces/Desktops switching, especially with Lion where they really tried to make us use Desktops, especially with fullscreen apps that then robbed us of external displays.

Windows 8's Explorer is really nice, but the details pane was better underneath as it was in Windows 7, and the Metro file explorer is of course horrendous.

 

[na1577]

You never used Lion, then? I still run SL as my daily driver, chiefly because of its "just right" look/contrast/"doesn't get in your way"-thing and Rosetta (Apple never released a scanner software on par with the original one, which is unfortunately Power PC with no upgrade in sight ("abandon-ware"). All following OS X versions feel inferior, visually speaking.
What's uncomfortable about Mavericks?

Nope, I skipped Lion because it didn't have any new features that I wanted. It didn't make sense to upgrade when I was already using an OS that worked fine. I bought a new Mac when Mountain Lion came out. I agree that Snow Leopard had it "just right", Lion/Mountain Lion made some step backs but Mavericks overall looks pretty nice.

Other than general OS X complaints, I've had some stability issues with Mavericks that I didn't have on other versions of OS X.

 

[Cubytus]

Other than general OS X complaints, I've had some stability issues with Mavericks that I didn't have on other versions of OS X.

SL is reasonably stable IMHO, but not rock-solid. While difficult to crash, VirtualBox and any other having modules so close to the kernel don't help with stability.

How Mavericks can be more unstable?