Apple Earned Over $100 Million From Fortnite

[I7guy]

Why would it be fair if Epic fell off a cliff? Because they dared to challenge Apple’s rules? The world would be in terrible state if nobody ever challenged the established order.

Why would it be fair if Apple loses? Does this statement have more objectivity than what I wrote? (and my statement was just a direct opposite essentially to what you wrote) "That’s true which is why we need the courts to rule that their terms are an unfair abuse of their monopoly power."

 

[I7guy]

They might not want to come back. Not everyone in life is solely motivated by money. Epic can make a lot of money selling Fortnite elsewhere because they have a loyal user base. They might lose a few Apple fans but gain more anti-Apple fans or Android fans.

Gain "anti-Apple" fans? What are the universe, demographic and persona of these people? It's a distinct possibility Epic may not come back, but they may want to because (maybe) they lost out on that IOS revenue and may want to get back.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Good try, ignoring the other options. Your statement is only true if every Americans owns only mobile phones of either iOS or Android.

Just because one may have other sourced of income does not invalidate the practice piggy backing in context.

 

[no_idea]

Wow, so apple provides Epic a platform to generate $333M in gross sales (over a quarter billion $$) which no doubt helped them grow to be a large company and they are pissed that apple wanted to be compensated for serving up their game and providing them a marketplace to sell it?

….
next up Dairy company Mayfield will want to sue Kroger and Publix for taking a cut for selling their milk, yogurt, and ice cream

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Thanks for point that out. I amended the quoted post to reflect an opinion. It gets tiring, writing, I think, imo, in my opinion, it's my feeling, etc. words that convey opinions with every sentence....as is most of the posts in this thread.

Ok. Just using the same rhetoric that you also use once and awhile . Still the difference here is that there is really data indicating the opposite of your stance.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

If I'm understanding what you are saying, IAP is only one vehicle for buying v-bucks...they can be bought almost anywhere. When Epic sells them in a store, the store doesn't get a cut? Why shouldn't Apple get a cut, even if some believe Apple charges usury rates.

Wether devs have other sources income, other ways to reach customers is irrelevant. What is relevant is that both deserve the right to use their property has they see fit. One through their App Store, the other through their app. The question how to assure each other rights over their properties in a symbiotic relationship. At the moment only Apple seams to be the one that can. They can force their charge over whatever devs do in their property/app and device owners properties. Its totally open ended, and its fluid. The result, your app, your service, your sale, user devices, is their app, their service, their sell, their device to get a cut of. All on top of a single OS licensing agreement. Through this agreement all concepts of property that we know of and are use to, evaporate.

Dont know how much of this is irrelevant. You see, if I go to a restaurant and eat something that plays against me don’t think that is part of the agreement. Even if that is out somewhere in a little piece of paper that only after eating it I can read it in the midst of hundreds of jargon in little letters. The popularity does not validate the practice, it simply makes it less visible.

Have fun.

 

[minivini]

And this is just one app, it’s absurd corporate greed. Nothing is ever enough. I don’t care about the “work they put into building the ecosystem” or what the industry standards for these fees are. I find the number of people who immediately jump to Apple’s defense to parrot these same talking points baffling. Why? Out of “fairness”? Check your blind spots. Defending these tech companies is anti-productive and weird. Tech corporations are ruthlessly capitalistic and destructive and we should challenge the control they have. Apple has always been a company with the primary concern of figuring out the most aggressive ways to acquire and exert control for the sake of profit and destroy any company who threatens that. Like any of these tech giants, they’re a virus and we should break up their power.

It’s almost like Epic is a greedy tech company that, on top of making lots of money, doesn’t read the contracts they sign…

 

[bobenhaus]

Google details how third-party app stores will work in Android 12

Google has published developer documentation that sheds light on its promise to make it easier to use third-party app stores in Android 12. App updates will no longer requires user action.

www.neowin.net

Back in September, Google announced that it would be making it easier for third-party app stores to work on Android phones starting with Android 12. This was in response to intense criticism from Epic Games, who criticized the closed nature of the app ecosystem both of Android and iOS, making it harder for companies to distribute their apps outside the app stores owned by their respective platform holders. However, Google wasn't very specific in regards to how it would make this process easier.

Good luck Apple!

 

[I7guy]

No. What I am saying is that at least an odd if not abusive practice for a company be able to manipulate other businesses properties without boundaries to their profit.

That's capitalism. People, companies, corporations are free to earn their way, provided they are on the right side of the law.

Case in case not allowing the devs sell their services, in their app/Property, all running on devices that are of someone else’s property. All through the magic of an operating system. Confusing? … right.

Devs on other platforms can do what the platform allows. Devs on IOS have to adhere to the TOS. In all cases a dev makes a choice to be on that platform.

Wether devs have other sources income, other ways to reach customers is irrelevant.

I think it's very relevant, case in point, Netflix.

What is relevant is that both deserve the right to use their property has they see fit.

In your opinion, but not in Apples' opinion. Until and if a law forces change, the ios app store is still their platform, even if YOU disagree with the way it is being run and managed.

One through their App Store, the other through their app. The question how to assure each other rights over their properties in a symbiotic relationship. At the moment only Apple seams to be the one that can. They can force their charge over whatever you do in your property, if you are a dev. Its totally open ended, and its fluid.

This is Apples' platform, their rules. It's strictly an opt-in mechanism to which the dev agrees to be bound the TOS...as Epic found out by getting booted off the app store and having a judge reaffirm that decision. Now thinks may go south for Apple in this trial and then it is what is.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

This is Apples' platform, their rules.

Yes, it’s their OS. If they had 100% market share it would also be their OS. But neither devices, apps or digital services are theirs, neither anything else the platform needs to run successfully. Hence the friction.

Apple stance on security and privacy costs people and digital services their properties. That in what macOS is fundamentally behind, it does not completely devoid third parties of their property. That cannot be the only solution. Mr. Fred and co had far more inspiring ideas.

 

[Khalmoon]

That's a lot of money earned for so little effort spent specifically on the game. That said, to suggest that its free or undeserved completely discounts the effort that Apple spent on building the ecosystem.

When you are using another platform to sell, you abide by those rules, if apple charged 90% im sure no one would bite thus people would be less eager to purchase iphones due to lack of applications.

Market decides. If Epic has this big of a problem with the 30% cut, they need to remove fortnite off of Nintendo Switch, Playstation and Xbox.
(But then they wouldn't make money!) Exactly.

If I host my product in another store i expect to pay something. I have to pay rent to have a booth at the mall.

Hope Apples store tax will be reduced or removed. Apples monopoly needs to end.

Buy an android. it's 30% there too btw.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Buy an android. it's 30% there too btw.

Same problem there. It should not be only Apple on the stand, actually, it’s not. Both companies and gradually eroding the concept of property. Not much different than Facebook as far that is concerned, maybe just more sophisticated in their OS.

Funny enough, the ones that looks more reasonable on these matter is the long Mac hated company, Microsoft. Maybe because they already went through the same process before.

 

[I7guy]

Yes, it’s their OS. If they had 100% market share it would also be their OS. But neither devices, apps or digital services are theirs, neither anything else the platform needs to run successfully. Hence the friction.

Correct, the end product is not Apples', but the platform to manage and distribute the end product is Apples' platform. And Apple has a set of rules that applies to devs wanting to bring their wares to market.

Apple stance on security and privacy costs people and digital services their properties.

Don't say this as a general statement, because it's not true, nor is it binary. But it goes along with this being Apples' platform.

That in what macOS is fundamentally behind,

Might as well compare ios to windows.

it does not completely devoid third parties of their property. That cannot be the only solution. Mr. Fred and co had far more inspiring ideas.

The allusion to "Mr. Fred" is lost on me.

 

[Mac4Mat]

Perhaps it should be rephrased that Fortnite earned over $300m via Apple

 

[SuperMatt]

So many posts, and almost nobody pointing out that Epic is only going after Apple because they’re the richest company in the world.

Look honestly at the gaming business. Every console maker charges around 30% on games and IAPs. Google Play does the same. They don’t allow developers to circumvent the rules. Heck, if you buy in-game currency using a gift card bought at your local drugstore, if you pay $60, Epic gets around $50. Why is Apple being singled out? (My opinion: publicity for Epic and the slim possibility of getting some penalty money from Apple's deep pockets if they win... Apple is very unlikely to settle this.)

The one platform where Epic is able to get a higher percentage of revenue is Windows gaming. But even there, Steam has a platform they charge for access to. So Epic had to spend a lot of money to build their own game store software.

So, because Epic built this game store, they now want Apple (and probably all the console makers too) to allow Epic to put this game store on all their platforms for free so Epic can reap the rewards. Sorry, it’s not gonna happen. If the platform makers don’t get a percentage of the sales on the platform, they won’t make money, and will go out of business. Now there are no platforms, and no games. Will Epic build their own console then? But then they’d have to let other developers put their games on it for free! So no games for anybody.

IMHO, Epic hasn’t got a snowball’s chance in hell on this one. 1) Apple does not have a monopoly on mobile devices. 2) Console makers have been doing the same thing for decades. 3) Epic admitted they would be willing to take a special deal with Apple!

 

[1258186]

Gain "anti-Apple" fans? What are the universe, demographic and persona of these people? It's a distinct possibility Epic may not come back, but they may want to because (maybe) they lost out on that IOS revenue and may want to get back.

Maybe but I don’t think they would have launched this legal battle if they intended to stay on iOS.

 

[DeepWebinar]

It’s almost like Epic is a greedy tech company that, on top of making lots of money, doesn’t read the contracts they sign…

Yeah almost. And it’s almost like rational distinctions aren’t being made. A lot of things almost happening.

 

[portland-dude]

Gets out Rough Estimate Calculator:

Apple's 100m = 30/100 = 100m/333m.

333m x 70/100 = 233m.

So if Apple made over $100m from Fortnite on iOS, Epic made over $233m from having their game on iOS.


(Advice to future self: Avoid letting your children anywhere near Free-to-Play money/fire pits.)

It's their game. They deserve to make way more than Apple. Also, you seem to be suggesting that Epic owes Apple more because it was on iOS....which is...so off base I'll have to invoke the generic white girl response of, "I literally can't even".

 

[portland-dude]

Epic should donate millions to mental health charities because people gonna grow up messed up on that Fortnite crap. Gangs of neo Nazis and scammers groom kids in those games.

hahahahaha. oh wait you're serious. let me laugh harder. HAHAHAHA. Did you get that talking point from MAGA news dot com or something?

 

[topdrawer]

But on the other hand Apple has to cover the development of iOS and other software such as iWorks, which they give away for free. So saying those $100m is pure profit I think is wrong. I'm sure there are other wholes to cover with this money.

That is already covered with the hardware sales as it was originally set up before apple saw the potential to make a lot more money.

 

[subi257]

Hope Apples store tax will be reduced or removed. Apples monopoly needs to end.

Okay, so then they need to charge a different way....using their infrastructure and resources are not free. they could charge like AWS so much per meg downloaded and hosted on their servers to the developer and sales go to the developer. But they still need to control the store as it is. It is their store and they should always set the rules and policies.....as applies to any other store....online or brick and mortar.

 

[subi257]

That is already covered with the hardware sales as it was originally set up before apple saw the potential to make a lot more money.

No. it's not....server infrastructure and operations, as well as continued software/hardware development is expensive.

Now that you bought your car, to company made their money on the "hardware" so you should never pay any more for service labor...

 

[topdrawer]

No. it's not....server infrastructure and operations, as well as continued software/hardware development is expensive.

Now that you bought your car, to company made their money on the "hardware" so you should never pay any more for service labor...

Fortnite and most games dont use apples servers other than for the initial download which literally just costs cents.

and apples business model has had software dev cost built into hardware price for a long time.

the car example is good. Cars profits are a very slim margin compared to apple products. If cars profit margins were as big as apples, well most people wouldnt be able to buy them

just picture every product you buy with as high as a profit margin as apple products. How much would a street taco cost? Why are people so determined to defend apple high margins?

 

[subi257]

Not at all the same.

This would be like Sony selling a Playstation 5 on Walmart.

Not only does Walmart want a fee (App Store "app" fee) for Sony selling the PS5 there, but it also wants a fee for every online purchase the customer makes with their PS5 (App Store "subscription" fee), all because the PS5 was sold on Walmart. And Sony doesn't have any alternatives either, they HAVE to use Walmart or not sell at all because Walmart is all that is offered (much like how App Store is the only alternative for iOS).

See how bad the system actually is?
If Apple did either of the following:
- lowered the subscription cuts by a lot (say to 5% or lower)
- allowed other stores than only App Store to operate on iOS
everything would be fine. But they're not. And probably won't. Bad for the consumer. Bad for the developers. Good for Apple though..

Consumers are always welcome to go to another store if they don't like this one. You can buy a playstation's are available for sale in many places and the store can sell it for anything that they want.

 

[4487549]

So basically they're all victims of their own success.