Apple Eliminating Restocking Fees at Apple Stores, Adding Personal Setup for Macs

[jlc1978]

The problem with Costco was not that there was no restocking fee, it was that their return window was unlimited. So you could bring back your G3 iMac and say "I don't like it anymore" and they would have given you back the $1,499 you paid for it nine years ago. That was clearly abuse.

True, and even so they are still pretty liberal - even the limited return items are 90 days vs the more typical 30 days. I've had 2 Xboxes exhibit red rings do death - Costco took them back in both cases; and I purchased each replacement at Costco. I even save the box and any extras - such as headphones that are not used - to ensure a complete return. No receipt - no problem; they look it up, even if it is 3 years old. I've bought a number of expensive consumer electronics items from them for that reason - most don't fail but if I have problem Costco will stand behind the sale. In the long run, the policy helps them more than it hurts - customers know they can depend on Costco and buy more.

Unfortunately, for a few items such as computers, some people viewed Costco's policy as "free upgrades for life;" thus ruining it for everyone.

 

[NightFox]

Good news on that front.

That 'policy' was probably bordering on what we call extortion therefore illegal. The customer shouldnt be penalised. I purchased an iPad for the missus at Xmas and the only way she would know whether it was of any use would have been to unpackage it and use it. Had she not found it comfortable to use then it would have been returned without this apparent restocking fee. Regardles of Apples policy.

Here in the UK the law sort of makes Apple return policy redundant. Thats why I never recommend Applecare to be purchased in the UK as the hardware is covered by consumer law for up to 5-6 years. For an iMac that decides to malfunction after 1 year or 2 years or thereafter the law states that Apple must fix it as depending on purchase price the item must have a reasonable lifespan. therefore a 3000 configured iMac will almost certainly be covered for a very long time rendering The Applecare a non requirement. Because Apple know this thats why UK prices for Apple products are higher than anywhere else because of this little clause. If any customer has fallen into a restocking fee trap I would urge them to seek legal aid and get the money back too.

Most likely the legal eagles have had a word in SJ shell like and brought him down a notch or too. Just remember Apple you are far from above the law although sometimes they like to think they are. All in all a good day for the customer.

That's a bit misleading because in your post you're mixing statutory rights for faulty returns and returns where there is no legal obligation; there's a big difference between the two.

Sure, with faulty goods we have good consumer rights here in Europe, though the EU regulations are widely misquoted and aren't quite as all-encompassing as some people say they are, though you're right to say they depend on the price and nature of a product defining what a reasonably expected life for that item should be.

However, this Apple 14-day policy isn't about faulty goods, it's about people opening products, trying them and then returning them when there's nothing wrong with them. In the UK, when buying from a 'real' store, there's no obligation for the retailer to allow this, and therefore it's not governed by any regulations. If I want to return a product to a store the retailer is perfectly free to say no, charge me any fee he sees fit, or even insist I spin in my head. Restocking fees and conditions are only illegal when there is an obligation for the retailer to accept the item back.

 

[Kenrik]

The new Verizon iPhone is coming out soon.

They did this NOW (not that it would not have happened in the future anyway) because they want to alow the people who got an AT&T iPhone for Christmas to be able to change to a Verizon iPhone with no Penalty.

 

[jlc1978]

Would a return and then Apple reselling the same notebook again class as two sales? Maybe Apple are hoping to warp the sales figures?

No, since doing that would cause other financial measures that look at per unit numbers to look worse. They most likely have an allowance for returns and have revenue for refurbished and refurb sales numbers for units that get refurbed.

 

[nylonsteel]

Nice gesture aapl - of eliminating stocking fees

 

[mambodancer]

+1

Costco learned the hard way by being too generous with their return policy. You're going to see a bunch of morons who don't really want the product start to abuse the policy.

We had the same problem at Microcenter. Their policy was very friendly to the customer originally. 30 day return, no restocking fees. Unfortunately they started having a significant return rate. It turned out, especially in the Mac department, that some customers would "buy" the product, use it as a free rental and then return it. When management found out what was going on, they reinstituted the 10% restocking fee. Because of the actions of a few to abuse the policy, all customers had to suffer.

The hit to the company was a double whammy. A returned product has to be refurbished and can't be sold as new. Most often, a refurb product is resold for the same discount as the restocking fee.

I would suspect, like Microcenter, their policy on software refunds would be different than hardware returns.

 

[mambodancer]

The new Verizon iPhone is coming out soon.

They did this NOW (not that it would not have happened in the future anyway) because they want to alow the people who got an AT&T iPhone for Christmas to be able to change to a Verizon iPhone with no Penalty.

I think you might be right about that.

It's also possible that this policy applies only to phones. We'll know for sure when the policy is officially unveiled.

 

[vincenz]

Does Apple care about you? Nope. But no company does....

This move is driven by competition, image, and to increase sales volume.

I like the move but these posts about "Apple cares about its customers" are pretty naive.

Apple, Google, Microsoft....teams of geeks makin stuff...pick your poison.

You're a very happy person...aren't you?

That being said though, this is the best news I've heard all year!

 

[notjustjay]

What exactly IS a "restocking fee"? Is that to pay some flunky to put something back on the shelf? Isn't that flunky already getting paid to walk around, now we have to pay said flunky extra to actually combine doing something with walking around?

It's the difference between the "new" selling price and the "open box" selling price. You paid $1000 for an item, opened it, and returned it. Now the store can't sell it as brand new, they have to sell it as an open-box or refurb unit for $900. They just lost $100. So they charge it to you, and call it a restocking fee.

However, as I said in an earlier post, I am against restocking fees because of the reasons already explained in this thread (makes customers hesitant to purchase). As for those who decry abuse, remember that people can already buy Macs at plenty of other places without paying restocking fees. If there was going to be rampant abuse, it would already be going on.

You bet! Now I can "rent" 10 Mac Book Pros for the weekend. I mean, the measure is suicidal.

People will do that, I have once actually a few years ago, even with the restocking fee it was a good deal.

So by your own admission, having a restocking fee won't prevent this sort of abuse from happening anyway. And even if Apple kept the restocking fee, you could have "rented" your 10 MacBook Pros from Best Buy just as easily.

Really? I don't know a single retailer who doesn't charge a restocking fee for an opened item that is returned as unwanted rather than faulty or not fit for purpose... You open and damage the packaging, 10% is about standard in my experience...

Maybe this is a regional thing? Maybe that's why so many people in this thread seem aghast/shocked that Apple would do this? In my area, only small shops (independent resellers and PC "chop shops") have restocking fees or limited return policies (I remember one store, when I asked about the return policy of the OEM video card, told me: "You don't like, you don't buy!"). But most of the big-box chains have no restocking fees for anything: Future Shop, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Sears, The Sony Store, Costco, Home Depot, IKEA, Zellers, Canadian Tire, etc. I think The Source (RadioShack) threatens to charge one but I've never had to return anything there.

But I live in a medium-size city in Canada. Maybe other countries, or even bigger cities, have different policies.

 

[Built]

Dear sweet god, the mandatory BS when you buy an iPhone is torture enough, they're going to make me sit through that every time I want to buy a laptop?

Release day for the iPhone 5 in Nashville, they had a giant line, that took some people close to 15 hours to get through because they insisted on taking at least 30 minutes with each person to show them how to use the phone. I begged them to just let me pay and go home, but they made me sit through the BS.

Then when I needed a new laptop, it was another ordeal. First you have to talk to this colored shirt, who instructs you to wait for someone in a different colored shirt. That mouth breathing hipster yaps at you for a bit telling you how great he is, before he wanders into the back to find a computer for you.

This is what I want in a retail experience:
1) I walk into the store, without being hassled.
2) I go over to the shelf and pick up what I want.
3) I take it to the CASH REGISTER, pay and go home.

On a good day, I can complete that experience without having to speak to any minimum wage employees.

iPhone 5????

 

[rmwebs]

I don't think it's a good idea. Some people might take advantage of it.

Probably will be short lived.

Apple are a tad smarter than you...funnily enough they do know what they are doing (I know...its crazy!)

 

[HLdan]

There is no way Apple can lose eliminating restocking fees. Returned items will sold as refurbished units (typically 15% off) and the profit margin on most items is 30%, so they will make money regardless. The added bonus is that Apple will get many more impulse buys if there is no risk.

This doesn't make sense, you can't say there's no way they can lose because that's ridiculous. You do realize that by selling a refurb at 15% off that Apple is not getting the full retail price right? So at this point they are losing. And please, unless you have some solid proof of the actual amount don't shout out profit margins as if you're sitting on the board of directors with SJ.

 

[3282868]

What a mighty fine move!

I can actually see this as being a good solution for dead pixels. God knows I don't want to blow £1700 on an iMac only to have a dead pixel on that display.

Agreed. However when I worked with Apple I always recommended AppleCare on any Mac system (never recommended it for the iPhone or other iDevices, not worth the cost). I didn't get it for my 24" LED LCD, and a year later when I purchased two more I realized the first one had a bad LED panel (color was pink and way off). Thankfully the guys at my old store replaced it with a new one, and allowed me to get AppleCare for it. Definitely worth it (and use your student discount! If you have an old ID, Apple only checks your drivers license, which make an AppleCare even more worth the money )

 

[Chalkperson]

I believe that this new rule only applies to Apple products, you have always been able to open anything that has been opened within fourteen days except Apple products, now you can return iPods and iPhones etc...

 

[Pink∆Floyd]

What a great company I tell ya

also chequepoint, there is no iPhone 5 yet...

 

[roland.g]

Unfortunately, it's thinking like this that gave us the 10% restocking fee with retailers.

THAT is what I mean with abuse of the system. No use of the product, just want to play with it, maybe show off to the friends how cool you are and than returning it.

I guess you didn't read my whole post. "Problem is: I might like it and decide to keep it. It would be dumb and dishonest of me to buy something, especially of that amount of money, that I intend all along to return."

As in I wouldn't do it and I was ripping vj for saying he would.

"Maybe the policy will be so universal, but don't think it will be that easy to "rent" 10 MBPs over a weekend and return them all. I doubt you would pull that off more than once. Added to which you still have to pay for the 10 machines in the first place. I'm sure lots of people have that much credit available. But none of that matters. Have you seen Apple's share price and market cap, the not charging of 10% on their minimal returns, because you can bet situations like what you mention will be few and far between, will really not have much effect on their bottom line say as compared to all the people who decide to buy and keep a machine they might not have otherwise because there is no 10% penalty.

But if you want to think and act in a deceitful way that takes advantage of a retail giant for your own benefit, you go right ahead. And Voilà, I'm sure you're the kind of person Apple wants to call their customer."

But I guess some people don't actually read what others write.

 

[aristobrat]

As for those who decry abuse, remember that people can already buy Macs at plenty of other places without paying restocking fees.

Perhaps in your country, but that's not a true statement for the US.

Best Buy was the first major Mac reseller to drop their restock fees, and happened less than a month ago. AFAIK, the only other major retailer that had no restock fee on opened computers is Walmart, but they don't sell Macs.

All of the other big Mac retailers (Amazon, Fry, MacMall) either have a restock fee, or simply don't allow returns (MacMall).

 

[wovel]

This.

I think it's a good idea.

I think it is great too. It makes sense since the primarily sell their own products and they ought to have confidence that very few of their customers return anything.

 

[notjustjay]

I guess you didn't read my whole post. "Problem is: I might like it and decide to keep it. It would be dumb and dishonest of me to buy something, especially of that amount of money, that I intend all along to return."

Yes. People need to realize that there are PLENTY of legitimate reasons to return something.

- It was broken
- I want to upgrade to something faster/better
- I want to downgrade to something cheaper
- It was the wrong one (e.g. school equipment list)
- I gave it a shot and really don't like it / just can't get used to it
- I thought I could do __ with it but I can't (run __ software, get on corporate network, use it at school)
- It was a gift and they didn't like it or already had one
- Someone else gave me one and I don't need this one anymore
- I just lost my job and can't afford it anymore
- etc.

You should not be penalized for any of these things.

The ONLY situation that I would actually consider abuse would be: I am buying this now with every intention of returning it later, e.g. I am taking this for a free rental.

 

[HLdan]

I guess you didn't read my whole post. "Problem is: I might like it and decide to keep it. It would be dumb and dishonest of me to buy something, especially of that amount of money, that I intend all along to return."

I understand your "whole" point however you do realize that at the end of the day it's the same outcome right? Whether you return it because it didn't suit you or returned it because you never intended on keeping it still ends in a return so at the end of the day there's nothing "dumb and dishonest" about it, you still end up returning the product. Your motives don't matter in this case.

 

[firewood]

This doesn't make sense, you can't say there's no way they can lose because that's ridiculous. You do realize that by selling a refurb at 15% off that Apple is not getting the full retail price right? So at this point they are losing.

They are not losing. They are most likely just making less profit for this one item (compare against the ifixit BOM costs). But that still shows up on their books as a profit, not a loss.

It's essentially the same as offering a sale price (such as on Black Friday), which brings in enough additional customers to offset, in volume, the lesser per item profit.

So, not only are they not losing, but due to higher customer appeal, their total bottom line profit might actually increase, even given some percentage of abusers.

Did you see how fast all the refurb MacBook Air 11s sold out? They may have run the numbers and found this to actually be a profit growth opportunity!

 

[sniffies]

Because if a product is sold, then returned, it can't be sold again at full price. It has to be sold as an open-box product at a discount. If stores are expecting this to happen, they can increase the cost of the product accordingly to account for the expected losses.

And? You're not answering Thunderbird's question. How are YOU paying for it???

 

[gnasher729]

They are not losing. They are most likely just making less profit for this one item (compare against the ifixit BOM costs). But that still shows up on their books as a profit, not a loss.

Comparing end user price with BOM (bill of material) is total nonsense. For the BOM amount you can get a shoe box full of parts somewhere in a place in China. An awful lot of work has to be done to turn that into a product on the shelf and then into a product that a customer carries away.

 

[weckart]

I wonder if this also means the elimination of the Refresh discount?

Refresh is Apple's internal term for open-box return items that are (were?) then sold for a 10% discount, after being verified to be complete and otherwise like-new.

It seems to have died a while back in the UK. Time was when you could get your hands on one of these instore at Regent Street at least once a month. I bought my iBook and a couple of Airport Expresses with "Refreshed" stickers on the original boxes back in the day. Can't remember the last time I saw that table by the stairs with the goodies on it.

 

[notjustjay]

And? You're not answering Thunderbird's question. How are YOU paying for it???

I don't think it's any secret that retail selling prices take into account store losses due to theft and, presumably, mark-downs on open-box items. If a store is expecting a sudden increase in mark-downs, they might well tack on an extra dollar or two to the selling price to compensate.

I doubt it would happen in Apple's case, though, since their price points are so well publicized and standardized across different stores.