Apple Employees Asked to Return to Offices for Three Days a Week Starting in September

[anshuvorty]

Remember that rumor about how Apple really really wants to show off the VR headset during the iPhone event as a "one more thing" at an in-person press conference, possibly this year? Yeah, you will need to be "all hands on deck" right before the iPhone event and it would make sense to require employees to come back to the office to make the "one more thing" possible.

 

[goobot]

now what if I am more productive working from home? your argument falls apart.

Pros from working at home as opposed to office:
-more productive

Yea, I don’t think that is true for most

 

[Neepman]

Apple and all companies are going to get everyone back to work much sooner. Anyone that wants to stay home will be exiled from upward mobility and run the risk of getting to stay home (except without a paycheck) permanently.

 

[Chloros]

It’s funny how ppl claim they are much more productive working from home…keep telling yourself that after you attend your one 30 minute meeting in the morning and then binge watch Netflix all day and occasionally tap your keyboard for “presence”

You wouldn't know what real work is if you feel this way.

 

[fishkorp]

I work in the complete opposite of what the Apple campus experience would be like.
Again, responses like this just show how ungrateful and spoiled people have become. Let’s never leave our houses, it’s better for us all! What a joke

I never said I’d never leave my house. I’d never work somewhere like that, there’s a very big difference. Do you personally know people that work there or similar? I do. Do you know people who have worked for companies that pay you for 40 hours, make you work much more (sorry, they don’t make you, they “strongly encourage” you to) and put loads of mental stress? I do. I’ve been a software developer for almost 20 years now. I know people who currently work for or have worked for most of the bigger companies. I’ve personally turned down 2 different offers from AWS because that great compensation doesn’t make up for the damage it would cause mentally and to my personal well being. I’d rather work in a shady run down office with a broken microwave and expired food in a vending machine if it meant not dealing with being overworked or them essentially forcing you to stay. Health and happiness is far more important than money to me. And those campus perks come with a price tag. They’re not there to be nice. They’re there to make you essentially live there.

 

[1rottenapple]

Well all I can say remote work can easily make jobs shippable overseas. My wife’s old company HBA design outsourced certain architectural positions to the Philippines and they’re based in Santa Monica California. Dozens of high paying design jobs gone. Same with their accounting staff. All but the cfo is overseas getting paid 6000 usd per year, versus 60,000. So I think it’s good to realize that there is a value in regular face to face interaction. Mass adoptions of wfh imho will eeventually lead to outsourcing even more.

my job are will likely doMig hybrid at work. Which is great. I want to have face to face contact but also want work from home. So why not go In the office 1/2 the time.

 

[contacos]

I am working remotely for a company on the other side of Germany (they didn’t want to loose me after I moved for private reasons just before Covid hit!) and it’s actually kind of boring sometimes, though I don’t miss the 90 minutes commute every day for sure. Since I am basically just working on my own terms and pace, sometimes I feel like I am forgotten 😅 I could literally work 3 hours per week and my boss would still tell me great progress! at the end of the week

 

[TehFalcon]

I never said I’d never leave my house. I’d never work somewhere like that, there’s a very big difference. Do you personally know people that work there or similar? I do. Do you know people who have worked for companies that pay you for 40 hours, make you work much more (sorry, they don’t make you, they “strongly encourage” you to) and put loads of mental stress? I do. I’ve been a software developer for almost 20 years now. I know people who currently work for or have worked for most of the bigger companies. I’ve personally turned down 2 different offers from AWS because those great compensation doesn’t make up for the damage it would case mentally and to my personal well being. I’d rather work in a shady run down office with a broken microwave and expired food in a vending machine if it meant not dealing with being overworked or them essentially forcing you to stay. Health and happiness is far more important than money to me. And those campus perks come with a price tag. They’re not there to be nice. They’re there to make you essentially live there.

Yes I do know people that work there. They rant about how great it is to work there.

and yes, I have worked at jobs that do that. That’s basically the entire automotive industry. I suggest you look up what us automotive people go through. Flag hours and warranty rates are a very real thing and we are doing manual work, not sitting at a desk.

i love cars so I put up with it, but I also love tech and working at a campus like Apple Park would be a world of difference and for the best.

 

[supergt]

Touch ID versus Face ID, notch versus no notch, flat sides versus curved sides, and now work from home versus return to the workplace. The great macrumors debates of all time!

 

[contacos]

Because we hear their screaming children in the background. Talk about workplace distractions! Also the amount of time wasted saying “sorry i was on mute” or “ can you see my screen” over the last year cost about 2 full weeks of productivity.

Now all that aside, yes some are more productive at home. And others are getting essentially paid to be babysitters for their children.

The amount of privilege on this thread is even more ironic given that your morning Starbucks latte requires in person work.

What is wrong about that if the work still gets done? If my boss tells me to focus on making a presentation by Friday but I finish it on Tuesday already, I am not gonna feel bad about it. I am not getting paid by output. Some people would take until Monday the following week, I am just faster. Sometimes I go on a walk with my dog for 2 hours in the middle of the day but I am still available on slack if people have questions. It’s not like I need to be glued to the desk to get things done. Emails can also be written easily as I am having a long lunch. It just depends on your own productivity level. Some people leave their desk and suddenly forget the whole working world around them. I am still available on my phone, so no big deal. I went to Spain for a week and my boss still told me great work at the end of the week as I was getting things done that he asked me to, even though it took me 2 instead of 40 hours that week (of course that isn’t the norm). Can’t be that bad as I received a nice big raise during pandemic times 😅

and then there are those people that sit in front of their desk for 2 hours, thinking about how to phrase an email

 

[macduke]

It’s funny how ppl claim they are much more productive working from home…keep telling yourself that after you attend your one 30 minute meeting in the morning and then binge watch Netflix all day and occasionally tap your keyboard for “presence”

Sounds like you're projecting a bit there. The rest of us are getting crap done. Sure I occasionally poke my head into MacRumors, but I also did that when I worked in an office. And sure I leave YouTube on my second display while I work, but I also did that when I worked in an office. Basically nothing has changed except I have more free time before and after work, I get more done during the day because it cuts down on mindless chatter from coworkers throughout the day stopping by my desk and interrupting my work (which is especially a pain in the ass when you're in the middle of doing development work), I get to see my kids more, and we're able to save money on gas, wear and tear on our car, and were able to sell our second car as it is no longer needed. Plus it's all better for the environment to not have to heat and cool two places at the same time and have less cars on the road. My company has saved a lot by moving permanently to remote work. We kept our old building and now rent out the spaces since it's in a good location and we're so productive that we've transitioned to a four day work week. I have a three day weekend every week!

Now that we’ve been home so long they need to start adding incentives to go back, like paying for gas/transit plus time commuting.

This is the real kicker that is going to shock a lot of these people when they go back. As others have said, this was always a part of the deal, but the world changed. There are a lot of remote work job listings out there, and it will only continue to grow as the economy bounces back in full force. It doesn't really matter if you're area is more economically depressed and not hiring because you can apply anywhere. Even internationally in some cases. The free market will have to decide whether in-person work is compensated higher or risk losing employees to the perk of remote work. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out. So many businesses, such as the one I work for, have closed up shop and are fully remote. Our growth in the past year has been phenomenal. I can't really imagine going back to work in an office. It seems like such an outdated concept at this point, but I get why certain jobs would require it.

 

[magicschoolbus]

Every industry and company is different. NO NEED to diminish others and say they don’t know what real work is because they can continue to remote.. thats unacceptable. the world has been moving this way for some industries for a long time and the pandemic threw gas on the fire for certain industries vs others.

 

[ian87w]

It's all dependant on the job function. There are jobs where it is more conducive being done in office, especially if it involves trade secrets. However, plenty of jobs can be done irregardless of the the location. Although we don't know the details, a tech company like Apple ideally should be able to differentiate which job functions performed best where. They have at least 1 year to do that homework.

 

[LonestarOne]

But home-based learning hasn't really been all that effective for the students, and I am under no illusion that I will have a fair amount of catching up to do when we go back to school.

That’s not surprising. It’s easy to show that something is ineffective when the organization implementing it wants it to fail. Many teachers will actively or passively work to sabotage new ideas. I have the knife wounds in my back to prove that.

The university lecture model was invented before the invention of the printing press, when the only way for a professor to impart knowledge was to stand up and read the book to students. The public-school model was invented in the 19th Century. Modern technology has been allowed into the classroom, reluctantly, provided it’s done in a manner that doesn’t threaten the status quo. The government-education complex was desperate to get students back into the classroom before parents and taxpayers realized how cost-effective home schooling, distance learning, and online education can be.

 

[dukebound85]

I do have to say that it highly amusing seeing all the wfh grovelers trying to convince its better. Ehh, no. It is great for the cowardly, though.

By all means, when you have your own company, you can implement as many old school ways of thinking for your workplace. Just don't be surprised when you can't get any talent because of your backwards thinking.

With that said, I am glad I have a workplace that values me and treats me like a professional. I also treat the team I supervise with the same respect. I am thankful I do not have a supervisor with a boomer's attitude that you are wanting to embrace.

 

[duervo]

If this turns out to be a trend for all companies, then it will not bode well for those that gambled that work-from-home was permanent, so they decided to go live out in the country or suburbs. Gonna be a lot of homes going on the market if that happens.

 

[Cycom]

By all means, when you have your own company, you can implement as many old school ways of thinking for your workplace. Just don't be surprised when you can't get any talent because of your backwards thinking.

With that said, I am glad I have a workplace that values me and treats me like a professional. I also treat the team I supervise with the same respect. I am thankful I do not have a supervisor with a boomer's attitude that you are wanting to embrace.

Lots of ageists here throwing the word boomer around. Not very inclusive of you, my dude.

 

[Abazigal]

That’s not surprising. It’s easy to show that something is ineffective when the organization implementing it wants it to fail. Many teachers will actively or passively work to sabotage new ideas. I have the knife wounds in my back to prove that.

The university lecture model was invented before the invention of the printing press, when the only way for a professor to impart knowledge was to stand up and read the book to students. The public-school model was invented in the 19th Century. Modern technology has been allowed into the classroom, reluctantly, provided it’s done in a manner that doesn’t threaten the status quo. The government-education complex was desperate to get students back into the classroom before parents and taxpayers realized how cost-effective home schooling, distance learning, and online education can be.

I don’t think that is a fair statement to make. I work with younger children (12 years and younger) and I can say that being in school provides many of the students with a more stable learning environment than they otherwise would get at home.

What I can say about the use of ICT in education is that it can amplify both a good and poor learning environment. Those who have the infrastructure at home (good internet, one dedicated laptop for each child, plus parents at home to help support and supervise them) will thrive in this environment. But if the child lacks any of the above, they can easily fall through the cracks, because the home environment just isn’t conducive.

I dare not say our execution of HBL has been perfect thus far, but we do put in the hours to create online lessons and hold live lessons (with mixed results). This is on top of daily check in sessions where we look out for the well-being of each child, meetings, various admin stuff, monitoring their assignment submissions etc.

All things said, I feel I am actually busier working from home, at maybe 50% efficacy at most. It’s probably better for older children, but I can safely say that HBL is no replacement for actual in-school learning.

 

[freedomlinux]

Have you experienced the traffic in the Bay Area?

Fortunately no - I took the train!

 

[Marshall73]

Gonna be a culture shock for a lot of folk when they have to start wearing pants again..

 

[mikethemartian]

I remember hearing about telecommuting as far back as 1987.

 

[mikethemartian]

I remember when I worked for Agilent in the early 2000s in Santa Rosa,CA if it was a nice Friday morning the parking lot was very noticeably more empty.

 

[Fred Zed]

you call going back to work at the place of employment that one agreed to when accepting the job offer micromanaging? we are in a sad state of times

and get rid of the non team players. some folks just aren't cut out for working with others.

The working culture in America is all about perception and little to do with efficiency or productivity. Most corps here have more "managers" than staff. It's comical. 🤣 Then again its probably title promotions.

 

[Jtsea]

Don't worry. It's great that Apple is transitioning occupancy rather than making a mandatory 5 days a week starting now/soon. Makes a lot of sense. And Apple certainly has no desire to sell their headquarters complex.

I suspect it will be five days a week starting in January. Life goes on.

You mean like the buses and other transportation that Apple and countless other Silicon Valley companies have offered the past 20 years or so?

Companies aren't going to start paying for peoples cars and gas plus time commuting. When it comes down to it, you want the top paying jobs, you're going to have to do what the employer wants.

But see, you’re forgetting how much leverage tech employees have.

The job market for most engineers and scientists in this industry is extremely competitive (for finding talent). Many people here assume there are not many remote jobs available. But there are!

My company has fully embraced remote as the new mode of operation and we are far from the only ones. For any disgruntled Apple employees, we are hiring, and pay similarly to Apple. You’ve got lots of opportunities out there that you don’t need to compromise your lifestyle.

 

[moulderine]

I work in the complete opposite of what the Apple campus experience would be like.
Again, responses like this just show how ungrateful and spoiled people have become. Let’s never leave our houses, it’s better for us all! What a joke

This has nothing to do with ungrateful or spoiled, this is simple capitalist dynamics.
In the pre covid world, sure Apple and other bigger tech companies where the best working enviroments overall.
But post covid, talented people who create and develop these products will now have new desires for what they want. Working remotely and not having to overly deal with commutes or restricted housing options now trumps a gym or free/disounted food.

Apple thinks that they can decide that, but if there competitors offer these people what they want they will go there over time. Because covid has proven many coporate jobs can be done effectively remotely, companies will give that option. Overtime Apple will lose many talented people who are the backbone of these products and they will lose ground: Apple products are the way they are, and successfull as they are because of the people behind them. Its that simple.

The fact that you work in the opposite is irrelevant, other than to tell us you don't have the option because you don't ask much of yourself or the market has determined you are not talented enough. Saying " ungrateful and spoiled" is a cope for the dynamics of a worker and employer relationship in a competitive market. The best people will get thier best deal where its offered. If Apple doesnt but there competitors do, that will impact them in the end.