Apple Employees Asked to Return to Offices for Three Days a Week Starting in September

[DanTSX]

Careful what you wish for...it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Think about what you value in life....is it money, status, doing something interesting, having fun, working with people you like, spending time with your family, friends or community?

After a certain point, the money and status become meaningless, and even poisonous, if you have to sacrifice the other things that are important to you....

Those of us that give that much to every job don’t really worry about that, or we don’t take the job. Simple as that. But understood the grass is always greener. Some of us are just driven by challenges. After the Covid response we had last year, I’m feeling pretty unstoppable. Maybe I should keep an eye on their openings and make a coast swap if someone thinks they are too good to go into the office 🤔

 

[brendu]

Lol 😆 ! Apple paid billions for that campus and now Timmy is forcing his minions to do his bidding! Get back to work plebs! I must micromanage you to death!

hey Timmy, you want your time as ceo to end soon? Force them to come to the office and watch how many people quit.

Lol sure. Fire the most successful CEO in the world because a handful of replaceable employees don’t want to do what their company tells them to. Makes sense.

 

[Petercbb]

I think they’ve made a good decision here. I think that for most people, the idea of working from home full time will wear off and they’ll want to come back to an office where they can interact with their colleagues. I also think it’s a good idea to specify days when people should be in the office so that it’s possible to schedule meetings where all colleagues will be together. I know from my own experience building an esprit de corp is difficult when half the team are on a spider phone and the other half are together in a meeting room.

 

[Jason2000]

If I am a competing company, I am taking note and will offer more time working from home, even up to permanently. Once a lot of talent leaves Apple because of this reason, only then will they then be forced to change their policy.

what is wrong with requiring people to come back to the office. We have been back in our office now for almost a year. My wife has been back in her office for almost a year.

 

[Captain Trips]

The company I work for is going back to a hybrid model in mid-July, barring changes in how the vaccine and pandemic play out.

For my team, it should be 2 days in the office one week, 3 days in the office the next week. Repeat.

I like a hybrid model. I really do enjoy working from home, for a number of reasons, but I also like seeing my co-workers face to face as opposed to a Zoom call. So I think a hybrid approach will work well for me.

 

[deebinem]

It’s funny how ppl claim they are much more productive working from home…keep telling yourself that after you attend your one 30 minute meeting in the morning and then binge watch Netflix all day and occasionally tap your keyboard for “presence”

I personally think my productivity has remained the same compared to working in office but one thing did change dramatically: my stress level. Working from home has allowed me to find much more happiness in the droll day to day of work and without having to commute an hour and half home on a crowded subway, has made my attitude much kinder.

But sure, go ahead and pretend to understand my work life balance.

 

[deebinem]

Lol 😆 ! Apple paid billions for that campus and now Timmy is forcing his minions to do his bidding! Get back to work plebs! I must micromanage you to death!

hey Timmy, you want your time as ceo to end soon? Force them to come to the office and watch how many people quit.

I take it this is your letter of resignation?

 

[DesignTime]

Because we hear their screaming children in the background. Talk about workplace distractions! Also the amount of time wasted saying “sorry i was on mute” or “ can you see my screen” over the last year cost about 2 full weeks of productivity.

Now all that aside, yes some are more productive at home. And others are getting essentially paid to be babysitters for their children.

The amount of privilege on this thread is even more ironic given that your morning Starbucks latte requires in person work.

What about the countless hours, days and weeks of time lost from parents who called in “sick” because their kid was sick before they worked from home?

What about the time wasted asking questions like “how was your drive” or “did you walk over” from in-person meetings while you wait for everyone else arrived?

There will always be something that someone thinks is wasting time. Especially business owners/employers since they feel an employee should be making them more and more money every second they are employed. Once again this is an issue with the employer and not working from home. Life has a lot more to offer than how much money one thinks one should be making them.

 

[DanTSX]

My employer has had a distributed workforce operating out of their homes since before Mark Twain wrote “The Adventures of Tom Sawyer”.

I personally think my productivity has remained the same compared to working in office but one thing did change dramatically: my stress level. Working from home has allowed me to find much more happiness in the droll day to day of work and without having to commute an hour and half home on a crowded subway, has made my attitude much kinder.

But sure, go ahead and pretend to understand my work life balance.

That is the funny thing though. Everyone thinks they have been more productive.

We should just let people write their own bonuses and promotions as well.

honestly I find the commute a good way to maintain a divide over the home/work mentality. Working from home constantly has it’s own stresses. Sneaking in a quick nap or some YouTube videos was never a problem AT the office, but I can’t seem to find the time to do this at home. Weird.

 

[Apple2GS]

meanwhile, fast food workers haven't missed a day.

 

[DanTSX]

What about the countless hours, days and weeks of time lost from parents who called in “sick” because their kid was sick before they worked from home?

What about the time wasted asking questions like “how was your drive” or “did you walk over” from in-person meetings while you wait for everyone else arrived?

There will always be something that someone thinks is wasting time. Especially business owners/employers since they feel an employee should be making them more and more money every second they are employed. Once again this is an issue with the employer and not working from home. Life has a lot more to offer than how much money one thinks one should be making them.

Grasping for straws here. Employers offer ample time off and intermittent WFH options to care for booger machines.

office small talk is probably worse with zoom meetings etc. At least I can be in more control of not having to deal with it at the office.

 

[ericgtr12]

It's interesting to see how this is playing out. For a while it sounded like a lot of these companies have conceded that working from home would be the new norm and just as (if not more) productive, but now that things are coming to an end with the pandemic many have changed their tune entirely and are forcing people back into the office.

A lot of people moved out of the bay area for cheaper housing in the Sacramento area since they were able to work remotely, now we're hearing all these stories about how they're being told to come back or they'll be let go. It's a risk these people took not knowing fully what the outcome would be.

 

[laptech]

Not unless the Indian variant of the virus takes a hold in the US like it is doing in Europe at the moment, then it will be back to home working again.

 

[Fomalhaut]

what is wrong with requiring people to come back to the office. We have been back in our office now for almost a year. My wife has been back in her office for almost a year.

I think the issue is obliging employees to return to office settings to work on tasks that have been demonstrated not to require their physical presence. That smacks of a need for control, rather than efficiency.

Now I'm not saying that this should apply to all jobs and all work activities; far from it. I have actually come to the conclusion that any work that requires significant periods of communication or collaboration with co-workers is often (but not always) more efficiently done when the parties are physically present. In the IT world, this might mean white-boarding designs, brainstorming ideas, pair-programming, and even just attending team meetings. There is definitely something lacking in the dynamic of video conferences - you can't judge body language as well, or accurately judge the gaps in the conversation when you can (or should) speak - in short the communication skills we've developed in the work environment don't work quite as well. It's doable, as we've demonstrated over the last year, but it's just not as good.

But equally, there are many tasks that don't require this. If I am writing code or a document in isolation, then why do I need to sit in a noisy open-plan office space (with noise-cancelling headphones to counteract the distractions). It's a waste a time being there unless I actually need to interact with someone. That is what people may be objecting to.

 

[DesignTime]

Grasping for straws here. Employers offer ample time off and intermittent WFH options to care for booger machines.

office small talk is probably worse with zoom meetings etc. At least I can be in more control of not having to deal with it at the office.

Spoken like a true “manager”. If your meetings, in-person or zoom, have so much “small talk”, maybe the meeting wasn’t needed.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Have you actually worked there? No offense, but this sounds a little like a fanboy wish.

Back in my industry days, before I joined a university for teaching and doing research, I worked a lot with (not for) Apple, including visits in Cupertino. There are much better jobs out there. A couple of my computer science students joined Apple for their thesis or after they graduated. Most left again, as it didn’t live up to what they expected from that dream of working for Apple. The same can be said for Microsoft or Google. People who never experienced it have these high expectations, because they’re fans of the products and then reality strikes.

Indeed. The informal appearance of the offices and t-shirt wearing employees belies the reality that these high performing tech firms didn't get that way by giving employees an easy ride. Under the casual clothing lies a Gucci-suited executive bent on extracting maximum performance and taking no prisoners...

 

[Fomalhaut]

Spoken like a true “manager”. If your meetings, in-person or zoom, have so much “small talk”, maybe the meeting wasn’t needed.

I would agree with this, but have actually had the contrary experience - my video conferences have almost zero small-talk, and it's actually a bit harder to get some rapport with the other attendees because in many cases, I've never met them physically, and don't know anything about them or their interests.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Productivity goes up because when you finish your work from home, you have options other than staring at a fluorescent light and watching the clock.

#1 More sleep.
#2 Less travel.
#3 Save Money
#4 Fresh Food - Control the fridge
#5 Control the thermostat (comfort)
#6 Control the hygiene (no public restroom).

Not to mention I have been such a big part of my 3 small kids lives. I can flex out and drive one to ABA therapy, or another to speech therapy. Help with home schooling. My cell phone is on me and the e-mails will be there in 15 minutes when I get back. I can have lunch with my family daily. I have lost weight, lowered blood pressure. It took us 6 months, but my government agency absolutely perfected working from home. We've done it all from hire to retire, train to discipline.

It's like a dystopian future thinking about 5:30-6:00a.m. alarm clocks. That means earlier bed time, more caffeine needed. 2 hours in the car. Gas is $4 a gallon. Oh man, need to iron the work clothes. That takes time too. If it can be done remotely by any means, that should be the default. It should need to be absolutely verifiably essential to make someone risk their lives on the interstate for the privilege of an office full of random interruptions.

Excellent points! Work should be about the execution of your tasks in the most efficient manner. If that can be done well without the huge kerfuffle of physically moving to a remote building, then why isn't it? If it can be integrated into other aspects of our lives (such as childcare, education etc.) without compromise, then workers will be happier and generally more productive. Task management becomes crucial, but often workers will be more engaged if they get a say in planning their own time and activities.

 

[davidjschloss]

surprised that they're waiting til September, and 3 days/week ... I know of quite a few companies in the Bay Area that are requiring to be at work as early as mid Jun ("official" CA re-opening for businesses) with no remote options ...

I just read a survey on Reddit that something like 80% of tech people said they'd quit if made to go back full time. I'm sure if Apple went full time, there's spots for a lot of these people at other tech companies.

 

[PBG4 Dude]

I would agree with this, but have actually had the contrary experience - my video conferences have almost zero small-talk, and it's actually a bit harder to get some rapport with the other attendees because in many cases, I've never met them physically, and don't know anything about them or their interests.

You have to reach out to them offline and build up a rapport outside of the conference calls. I work with people from all over the world, and this is the only way I’ve been able to get to know them better.

I also try to get at least one good joke into every meeting. People need a laugh to break the tension.

 

[I7guy]

For many activities before COVID effectively working remotely was considered simply not feasible... until COVID arrived and forced everyone to try it or close shop. For many activities it proved that effectively performing them remotely was actually feasible, shattering many ingrained preconceptions.

It's true that some activities do profit from being in-office, but they are a lot fewer than originally thought. Furthermore, often the issue is more outdated processes or technological infrastructure than something inherent in the activity itself.

A lot of America got caught short when lockdown started. Some companies were more prepared than others.

However there is a difference between feasible and optimal. It’s true that some jobs dont need to be In the office to perform optimally. It’s also true that some jobs need to be in the office to perform optimally. Every manager, every company has to make that decision. One size doesn’t fit all and it’s not true as a general statement that optimal work at home is inhibited by outdated processes.

Finally there is the “burden” incurred by commuting that many companies do take into consideration.

 

[antigone78]

Right, but just because you lack WFH morale doesn’t mean everyone else does. If it was like you said, everything would have come to a complete halt, but, after that initial panic,commercial business has been going along quite well.
Sure, if you compare 60 minutes at office and 60 minutes at home, you could probably argue that people are more productive. But that doesn’t factor in things like commuting.
In fact, studies have shown that productivity has gone up with WFH.
So again, just because you lack the discipline, you shouldn’t paint everyone else with the same brush.

Yep. Our productivity has improved by any metric you measure across most of our teams. Our management is currently working with HR to have us go fully remote or a have just one person from the team come in per week and have satellite desks anybody can use if they need to come in. I'm hoping that works out because I do not miss my Bay Area commute!

 

[mrothroc]

my video conferences have almost zero small-talk, and it's actually a bit harder to get some rapport with the other attendees

This is definitely a skill that needs to be cultivated. We have a small startup with no office. We meet in person once a year at most.

We do add a little small talk in at the beginning of some meetings, typically topical, like "are you traveling for the long weekend" or "did you see this news". At first it was a little forced, but now it's become natural. We aren't best buddies, but it's enough to build the professional-level relationship that you get with most of your office colleagues.

Oh, and I always recommend: make sure everyone uses video for every meeting. It give you more than you realize.

Anyway, it works really well for us, and we don't have the overhead of an office. Our employees spend time working instead of commuting, and people are happier. Happier people make higher quality work product.

 

[citysnaps]

The five engineer fabless semiconductor (full-custom high-speed signal processing communications ASICs) startup I was a part of in Silicon Valley had employees working from home for more than a year. That was mostly driven by sky-high office space and other expensive costs - fabrication runs, wages, benefits, etc. Though not perfect, the internet made communication and collaboration possible.

That was fine while we were growing, but it came to a point where we needed a legitimate office presence to meet with well-known customers in the wireless communications space and engineers working out of spare bedrooms with workstations wasn't going to cut it. Best thing that ever happened was finding a small office space in Palo Alto, probably around 3,000 sq feet where most could be together and have frequent customer meetings. Productivity increased with more products under development and hiring more people. For me, waking up and getting dressed in one bedroom and walking across the hall to another bedroom where I worked, got old very quickly.

 

[DanTSX]

Spoken like a true “manager”. If your meetings, in-person or zoom, have so much “small talk”, maybe the meeting wasn’t needed.

I’m not sure how you concluded that. I’m not in management.
Your aggressive behavior to “management” and hierarchy is noted. Very productive.