But they haven't done that. They're messing with petitions instead of resigning.
They have known this for months and instead of accepting a job offer from some other company, they seem obsessed to work for Apple.
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Apple Employees Reportedly Petitioning Against Plan to Return to Office 3x Per Week
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But they haven't done that. They're messing with petitions instead of resigning.
They have known this for months and instead of accepting a job offer from some other company, they seem obsessed to work for Apple.
I do wonder how many of you, who wish Apple would drag these people you've never met back to the office by their necks, are the people who actually want to go in for various reasons but it's not really the same as it used to be with the rest of us still preferring to not be there?
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Are you being compensated fot triple duty? If not, why have you accepted the situation?
This has been going on for months. This is the third or fourth effort.
At some time they just have to realise they have lost, and apply for jobs elsewhere. It shouldn't be difficult for most of them according to commenters here.
We enjoy working at the office a few days a week. I consider 100% working from home, a crime against the humans mind.
Fortunately, in my country, there is work going on to make it illegal to force people to work from home against their will.
Thank you! A balanced response from a professional in corporate America.
I’m not sure what world (or country) some here inhabit - but it sounds pretty dysfunctional. I’ll leave it at that.
If it’s the fourth time then doesn’t that mean they succeeded the other three, at least temporarily?
A good approach. A company should not be able to force you to work at home. A home could be a big house or one room in a rooming house with many people. When hired, employees were contracted to show up for so many hours at a company facility. To suddenly instruct employees to work at home is nonsense and I cannot see how it can legally be enforced. If an employee is not permitted to sleep, party, and carry on as if the company office is their home, the reverse is equally true.
But let's say a lot of people know, but they still continue buying from Apple. Why would Apple change?
If unhappy customers buy as much has happy customers, there is no reason to have happy customers.
You sound like someone who doesn't understand that a company the size of Apple will roll on and replace employees regardless of how skilled they are. Yeah it takes time and money, but Apple has plenty of both. I work for a massive Corporation and have for many years. I've seen people at the very top get let go and replaced and people on the lower end of the company get let go and replaced. Is it pleasant? No. Is it something that companies want to do? No. Will they do it? Absolutely.
And Apple isn't saying its their way or the highway. They are trying to be flexible but ask people to come in a few days a week and work from home the other days. It's the people who are saying "Its our way or the highway. We want to work from home only with no other options."
The employees still believe convincing Apple to change its policy is possible. It makes sense for them not to resign until they believe they have exhausted all chances to negotiate this change.
The petition is merely a way to let the employer know that a significant number of employees share a given opinion. In no way, shape or form it would require Apple to do anything, even if support for the petition is overwhelming. Said that, if the petition collects enough support it's definitely an argument which could help to convince Apple.
Of course Apple still has the right to affirm its stance and refuse revising the policy. If it becomes clear to the employees that the policy is non-negotiable and Apple's stance is final, they'll have to decide whether to accept it or resign.
Correct. And now they don’t want to deal with this crap anymore. And they know they don’t have to.
How do you handle projects? You don’t. You’re at work. Just because it’s a distraction doesn’t mean you have to do it.
And the point still stands. If it was 3x more productive, employers would be thrilled to oblige.
My company dealt with the same issue by bringing everyone back for 3 days a week and the employees that didn't like it left.
I would side with those who can stay home and accomplish the same job if not more. I would highly suggest changing out living "culture arrangements" This campus could have a smaller ring perhaps with condos in the center with or a larger ring around.. Has been talked about for a while now already but the whole city in a city thing.. Take an elevator to work.. Walk across the ring for the market, integrated schools and so on.
If working in the office was okay when you joined the company, and it isn’t now - find a new job.
You mean the job the person applied for and accepted that was 90 minutes away from home? Willingly?
Hey, if you don't want to do what you are literally being paid to do, quit! I'm sure many people would love that paycheck.
Have you tried recruiting in the tech industry lately?
I like working for my employer, but I had a similar situation a couple months ago. I did, in fact, tell my boss and HR (HR handles changes from classification as work from office to WFH) that I wasnt going back to the office, that I liked my job, and that I didn't want to leave but I liked working from home more. My team is geographically distributed so it wasn't a big deal, but it was a conversation I had to have. My boss was completely cool with it, HR had a slight amount of pushback but not much, but if they *had* shut it down I would have left. Moving jobs is a pain, people like working for Apple in general, they just want one thing changed. Push them enough and they will leave though.
You don't have to immediately jump to leaving a job you like the minute there's something you don't like, you can try and change it first. I don't know why a lot of y'all seem to think the only choices are "suck it up" and "GTFO".
Maybe you should? Just cause yours is like that doesn’t mean everyone’s is. I didn’t say that there weren’t problems at some offices. What I was saying primarily is that MOST peoples homes have at least a certain level of distractions real or unrealized.
I assure you, bosses would rather you be distracted by other employees discussing work - even tangentially - rather than you wiping down the counters after making your third snack (as an example).
I’m not saying one is more or less beneficial in itself. Every job and office is different. I am simply saying that the average person is by no means 3x more effective at home otherwise employers wouldn’t want folks to come back.
It’s really that simple. At best, I’m guessing folks are on average AS effective at home as at the office. Perhaps in some cases slightly better at home. But my point is that the employer views the benefits of in-face collaboration as higher than the minor efficiency savings some folks claim to have.
You guys act like these employers are ignorant of benefits to and the betterment of the company. They aren’t. They may be ignorant of your personal wishes or benefits, but they generally are pretty good at managing cost/benefits for the company. Especially apple. You think Apple spun a wheel and chose 3 days a week? I bet they had a team of lawyers and psychologists as well as product development specialists discussing this issue for the last few years.
Just don’t try and tell me you’re 3x more effective at home because of distractions at work regardless of your environment. You want to say you are special? Fine, but for every one of you, there are people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum and are 3x less effective while at home with family and not privileged enough to have a designated office space. What matters is the average and I think apple and most other companies are a better gauge at which is in the end more effective for the company itself.
Remote work is too complex to tackle honestly and I am glad not to be in the committee that has to tackle this now. I'm observing and paying attention to what they will say, do and the outcome.
For me, everyone is different, and for a company, it relays on people being able to work together. Hiring managers don't just hire people for their skills and experience, that is just part of the equation, but the team dynamic and chemistry with existing team. You want to hire people that fits into your team and bring something to the team besides their skills, knowledge and experience.
Hiring someone that doesn't fit in can be detrimental to the morale and productivity of the team.
That's the context I will start with. So, secondly everyone is different, some like to work alone and isolated, some like to work together. And each are more productive when they are in that environment. Believe or not, there are people who are just not very productive working at home (despite their claims that they are just as productive). And there are many projects that are better worked on together in the same room. (No, Zoom and video conference can only do so much).
I think hybrid model is fair for companies with projects that are better done when they need their team to come together and work together. Sure, you don't need to do that every day, but a couple times a week should be fair. or even a couple times a month depending on the team and project.
I think employees who want 100% remote work, needs to work for companies that are designed from the ground up for remote work by people who are not only comfortable but are productive at it.
For an existing company like Apple, I disagree that every employee is going to thrive and do well in remote work. Especially when the senior executes themselves want to come into the office. Apple would need to consider letting those people go, and hire from the ground up again only people who are flexible enough to come in at least 3 days week. That is only if the Executives themselves are really pushing for hybrid model.
Then again, I want to wait and see what happens.
I'm a remote worker myself, but I had staff, particular recent college grads who are not particular product working remotely and on their own (unsupervised). Where as someone with 10+ years experience, are more responsible than these kids and can be trusted to do the same quality work at home or in the office.
For me, everyone is different, and for a company, it relays on people being able to work together. Hiring managers don't just hire people for their skills and experience, that is just part of the equation, but the team dynamic and chemistry with existing team. You want to hire people that fits into your team and bring something to the team besides their skills, knowledge and experience.
Hiring someone that doesn't fit in can be detrimental to the morale and productivity of the team.
That's the context I will start with. So, secondly everyone is different, some like to work alone and isolated, some like to work together. And each are more productive when they are in that environment. Believe or not, there are people who are just not very productive working at home (despite their claims that they are just as productive). And there are many projects that are better worked on together in the same room. (No, Zoom and video conference can only do so much).
I think hybrid model is fair for companies with projects that are better done when they need their team to come together and work together. Sure, you don't need to do that every day, but a couple times a week should be fair. or even a couple times a month depending on the team and project.
I think employees who want 100% remote work, needs to work for companies that are designed from the ground up for remote work by people who are not only comfortable but are productive at it.
For an existing company like Apple, I disagree that every employee is going to thrive and do well in remote work. Especially when the senior executes themselves want to come into the office. Apple would need to consider letting those people go, and hire from the ground up again only people who are flexible enough to come in at least 3 days week. That is only if the Executives themselves are really pushing for hybrid model.
Then again, I want to wait and see what happens.
I'm a remote worker myself, but I had staff, particular recent college grads who are not particular product working remotely and on their own (unsupervised). Where as someone with 10+ years experience, are more responsible than these kids and can be trusted to do the same quality work at home or in the office.
Depends on the job. And that is true.
I think the office environment though meant if you got your work done in 6hrs you didn’t then just waste the rest. You was in and office and couldn’t leave without drawing attention. So you would end up doing other work or being give more work.
WFH allows people to do the work in 6hrs and pretend it took 8.