Apple Employees Reportedly Petitioning Against Plan to Return to Office 3x Per Week

[Reason077]

WFH is the new work benefit and it’s absolutely free for the company to provide. Hunch tells me that Apple just wants to get usage out of the new spaceship more than anything else.

WFH is not free if it reduces the company's productivity. I think, at least for many workers, there is evidence that it does.

 

[I7guy]

WFH is the new work benefit and it’s absolutely free for the company to provide. Hunch tells me that Apple just wants to get usage out of the new spaceship more than anything else.

So the line about collaboration is just a smoke screen?

 

[boss.king]

WFH is not free if it reduces the company's productivity. I think, at least for many workers, there is evidence that it does.

Can we see some of this evidence?

 

[I7guy]

[…].

Our productivity did not go down over the pandemic, but that's not to say that there aren't things that work better in person. Ideally you want the flexibility to go in when needed, and work from home when you don't. Instead it often seems the push back to work is driven by a desire to not waste the corporate lease.

It’s true. We got things done, harder over zoom, during the pandemic. If productivity is measured in getting things done, then yes I agree.

I can see how a Fortune 500 company who has a history of collaboration wants a RTO.

 

[Muzzakus]

What I would like to know is, is this an issue with health and safety or and an issue with working conditions? The two are obviously very different and I feel need to be tackled differently. The petition doesn’t appear to drill into any specific details.

It’s about people that can’t be F’d going in to work

 

[Madonepro]

Apple employees are reportedly petitioning against the company's plan to require workers to return to in-person work at the office three days a week starting next month.

Earlier this month, Apple informed corporate employees that they must return to the office for three days a week starting early next month. The current plan will require staff to come to the office on Tuesday, Thursday, and a third day of the week that will vary by team.

According to a new report from the Financial Times, a growing number of employees at Apple are reportedly unhappy with the new plan, instead advocating for "location flexible work." The report cites a petition formed by the group "Apple Together" that's making its way around Apple and gaining signatures. Apple has been eager to get employees back to in-person work for some time. Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, has defended Apple's eagerness to return to the office to protect the "in-person collaboration that is so essential to our culture."
The petition says that Apple "should encourage, not prohibit, flexible work" where employees can "feel comfortable to 'think different' together." Apple's current plan to have employees working in-person at the office three days a week starts on September 5.

Article Link: Apple Employees Reportedly Petitioning Against Plan to Return to Office 3x Per Week

I don't work at Apple, but I think every employer to some degree faces this discussion at the moment.

Before the pandemic hit we'd all just taken for granted that we need to commute and go to an office 4 or 5 days per week. Then we were all forced to live an alternative and overall it just worked. I spend significantly less time and money on public transport. For me that works out to two additional hours I can spend on something I actually enjoy.

Our productivity did not go down over the pandemic, but that's not to say that there aren't things that work better in person. Ideally you want the flexibility to go in when needed, and work from home when you don't. Instead it often seems the push back to work is driven by a desire to not waste the corporate lease.

Simple solution. As the terms of the employment are attempted at being changed, then employees who don’t have any to comply with this, should reapply for their jobs.

 

[Wanted797]

Do you think no one ever wastes time in an office?

No. But I’d bet it’s less.

 

[spazzcat]

Only apple knows what’s going on. With the rumors of iPad os being delayed maybe they aren’t getting these people to put in a good day of work.

I know I know, every wfh person on here is the hardest working person ever and their company would go bankrupt without them. 🙄

The iPad that is manufactured in China? It has nothing to do with people working at home. There are major chip shortages. And somehow, I dout that people working on the hardware side are working from home, and they only stop working in the office for a short period in 2020.

 

[ggibson913]

I admit that the pandemic showed us that we CAN work from home. At my own company, we already had WFH two days per week. We are now mandated to come in at least once per week which I am fine with. I find the one or two days from the office re-centers me somehow. We had employees who wanted to still work from home every day, so they resigned and found different employment which allowed them to do so.

I am not understanding all these petitions and what not, if they want to work from home full time, they are able to do so as there are plenty of jobs out there which allow it, just not their current one.

 

[Wanted797]

So just like people that work in an office then ...

I’d bet it’s a lot higher for people waste time while working from home.

 

[russell_314]

I have no doubt if an office job could be outsourced to a cheaper country it would have already happened by now which is why India seems to be the customer support captial of the worlds companies. Some coding jobs are already done by India workers. Back in the early 2000's I remember reading in a monthly computer magazine that Microsoft have coders for it's software in the US, India, Israel and Europe so that when one the coders in one country goes to sleep, coders in another time zone can pick up where they left off and so on and so on. I have no doubt Apple are in the same position when it comes to their software. Also I think that in some countries they have laws that state an x amount of percentage of employees must come from the country the company is in to prevent exploitive business practices (set up a company in one country where they can get massive profits but have the employees actually be in another country where they can pay for cheap labor.

A lot of companies are trying to be old fashioned in the sense of they want employees to be on site because they believe it’s more effective. Whether that’s true or not is irrelevant to the fact that if those companies start going to remote workers those workers are likely not going to be in the USA for long. Sure it’s nice to roll out of bed, not take a shower and just go in your flip flops and underwear to your home office. The problem is I just don’t think that situation will last.

I’m sure some countries have laws that prevent this practice but clearly the United States doesn’t and India doesn’t as well. I’m sure there are other countries that allow this too. Workers in a lot of countries are being exploited because of the low wages and lack of government regulations.

I can’t imagine the wage Apple has to pay people so they can live in one of the most expensive places in the country. I was listening to a podcast about this and they were talking about a small house is a million dollars. Part of me thinks well they will get what they deserve when their jobs are outsourced but another part of me is going to be a little sad that more work is outsourced from the USA.

I know these workers just want to do what they feel benefits them the most but I don’t see Apple paying workers Cupertino money when they can get the same thing for Bangalore prices.

 

[dugbug]

We have this problem where I work, folks moved away and work remotely. Its just not the same as having face to face whiteboard sessions and other team work. In the short term its ok, everybody knows each other but in the long run we have run into problems. Employees that can't work remotely are busting their butts during a pandemic and on telecons hear dogs barking and kids playing over their counterparts phones and it gives the impression they aren't really as invested in what we are doing.

In my opinion for jobs that require team creativity and engineering they should work together and as far as I can see few companies have as nice a place to do this as Apple. If you are just working a bug list on an enterprise app or something, then sure work from home.

 

[JM]

Always support the employees. They are the people who suffer to make the corporation and managers on high rich. They are you and they are me.

If the employees don’t like it, they have the right to petition. If Apple doesn’t like it, they have the right to say no. The employee has the right to seek work elsewhere. I doubt we’ll see much in the way of change until these traditional companies can no longer compete with remote operations. That day is coming.

I made the choice to work remotely a few months before the pandemic started by seeking employment elsewhere. There was nothing about my job that necessitated working in-person (I manage websites and do development and design work) and my employer wouldn’t accommodate me so I left. Now I work four days per week remotely and have three days off. You guys have no idea what you’re missing out on. I have more personal time than ever. I can roll out of bed and start working within 5 minutes. If I’m running late from work, I can just go eat dinner with my family, spend time with my kids, and pop back on later if I need to finish up something.

The volume of work that I do remotely is easily 3x my in-office job. There is absolutely no way I could focus this well in-person. Gone are the pointless meetings where anything of substance is rarely accomplished. Gone are the coworkers stopping by my office door to chit-chat about crap I don’t care to hear about. Gone are all the background noises and birthday parties and long expensive lunch breaks eating at restaurants with fellow employees. Gone are the phone calls and long-winded email threads when I can just hop on Slack for two minutes to hash an issue out via text or do a quick screen share.

Everything I need to do is in a task management system. Everything I need others to do is in the same system. I can track it all in real-time to see exactly where in the process we are for any project and make notes and attach screenshots and provide feedback for those under me to review and they are all notified instantly.

Doing business the old fashioned way is cute and quaint but this is how you really get crap done in 2022. Of course it depends on the specific job at hand but my advice to Apple is to stay nimble and flexible where you can or you’ll fall behind. Maybe not this year or next year but suddenly you’ll find yourself wondering what went wrong. The future waits for no one.

Apple IS being flexible: with two days WFH. 🤔

 

[ksec]

I know this seems weirdly controversial now - and ive no idea why...

But this strikes me as utterly entitled and ridiculous behaviour.

Firstly..... 3 times a week? is that all?? more than generous of apple.
Secondly.... like it or not there are some roles where collaboration is needed, and not in zoom meetings and the like - theres no substitute to face to face interaction. I wonder out loud how much better iOS 15 could have been and iOS16 too.... (though I accept that might just be nonsense)

Thirdly, and HERES THE MAIN ONE...... Each and every employee went to a job interview..... and accepted the job based on where they lived, the commute, the office they were working in... etc etc. Just because its nicer and cheaper not to commute does not mean they now have the right to demand a change in their working conditions... THEY took the job on knowing full well what it entailed..... Covid was a temporary and unprecedented problem and its time to get back to normal like it or not.

The easy answer is if you dont like you job or working conditions (and only 3 days a week in the office which is much better than you had when you took the job on) then simply resign. Stop wasting time and energy with petitions etc - your employer is well within their rights to mandate working arrangements like this and if your office job requires you to be in the office then get in there or move aside and give one of the many thousands out there who would love your job the opportunity to do it and work from that amazing Apple Park location (id love to work there!).

Well, you are not Woke enough to understand their demand.

 

[stocklen]

Well, you are not Woke enough to understand their demand.

fascinating how many disagree... but hey.

 

[Pezimak]

If Apple really wants the usage out of the new spaceship. They are welcome to turn the Apple Campus into a assembly factory plant. Might as well call it, "Designed in Cupertino, California", "Made in Cupertino, California".

And the retail price of Apple devices made there will triple.

 

[smaffei]

Apple execs are seeing that nice big billion dollar architectural bragging piece of an office building sitting mostly vacant and it eats at their souls.

This has nothing to do with productivity (trust me, if you aren't producing, Apple has no problem firing you). It has to do with "asses in seats." It's that simple.

I'm facing a similar situation at my job. My entire team is remote and not in my area. But, it looks like I will be forced into my local office (causing me a 2.5 hour commute a day) just to use Slack and Teams. The same thing I'm doing at home right now. Why? They want people in the office.

Corporate America is falling back to its 1990s mentality.

 

[laptech]

A lot of companies are trying to be old fashioned in the sense of they want employees to be on site because they believe it’s more effective. Whether that’s true or not is irrelevant to the fact that if those companies start going to remote workers those workers are likely not going to be in the USA for long. Sure it’s nice to roll out of bed, not take a shower and just go in your flip flops and underwear to your home office. The problem is I just don’t think that situation will last.

I’m sure some countries have laws that prevent this practice but clearly the United States doesn’t and India doesn’t as well. I’m sure there are other countries that allow this too. Workers in a lot of countries are being exploited because of the low wages and lack of government regulations.

I can’t imagine the wage Apple has to pay people so they can live in one of the most expensive places in the country. I was listening to a podcast about this and they were talking about a small house is a million dollars. Part of me thinks well they will get what they deserve when their jobs are outsourced but another part of me is going to be a little sad that more work is outsourced from the USA.

I know these workers just want to do what they feel benefits them the most but I don’t see Apple paying workers Cupertino money when they can get the same thing for Bangalore prices.

Like I said, if Apple could have outsourced every office based job to India and other cheaper places they would have done so already. Apple support is handled by an outside contractor, so is their website and Apple repairs. Most recently it was reported that many Apple recuriters would lose their jobs with the article pointing out that these people are not Apple employers but 3rd party contractors who are placed at Apple sites around the world. So basically what I am saying is Apple already outsource a lot of their work so if all these office based jobs that have allowed Apple employees to work from home are jobs that can be handled by a computer, a phone line, internet access and zoom calls to bosses, the job would have already been outsourced. The fact the jobs havent mean's the job involves them being locally based/country based.

 

[aidler]

If Tim Cook really wants people to return to office for 3 days a week, he is clearly living in the past and lacking a forward-thinking mindset, which I have long suspected.

 

[citysnaps]

Sounds like an outstanding opportunity for people who unhappy with Apple's in-office requirements to find employment elsewhere that meets their requirements.

A win for Apple. And a win for the unhappy. Easy.

 

[wanha]

I wonder if, somewhere down the line, companies like Apple will pay employees extra for coming to the office. Feels like that would be a fair trade for spending a chunk of your day in commute to and from the office.

 

[mikethemartian]

A fairly complex situation overall, not just for Apple but for most of the companies in the Valley. On one hand, it is clear that the general trend of WFH is not going away and most companies (especially in tech) can probably accommodate that to some extent. The question is, what to do with the office spaces, how to handle areas where access needs to be controlled and monitor, i.e. engineering, product design and so on. Also, what about the housing market? I don't think many of the people working in the Valley would actually live in the Valley unless they've had to under the current circumstances.

Design work can be done remotely but building and testing prototypes needs to be done onsite in the labs.

 

[madrigal77]

What a bunch of crybaby entitled losers. If your boss want you to come to work, you come to work or F off.

 

[Abstract]

I know this seems weirdly controversial now - and ive no idea why...

But this strikes me as utterly entitled and ridiculous behaviour.

Firstly..... 3 times a week? is that all?? more than generous of apple.
Secondly.... like it or not there are some roles where collaboration is needed, and not in zoom meetings and the like - theres no substitute to face to face interaction. I wonder out loud how much better iOS 15 could have been and iOS16 too.... (though I accept that might just be nonsense)

Thirdly, and HERES THE MAIN ONE...... Each and every employee went to a job interview..... and accepted the job based on where they lived, the commute, the office they were working in... etc etc. Just because its nicer and cheaper not to commute does not mean they now have the right to demand a change in their working conditions... THEY took the job on knowing full well what it entailed..... Covid was a temporary and unprecedented problem and its time to get back to normal like it or not.

The easy answer is if you dont like you job or working conditions (and only 3 days a week in the office which is much better than you had when you took the job on) then simply resign. Stop wasting time and energy with petitions etc - your employer is well within their rights to mandate working arrangements like this and if your office job requires you to be in the office then get in there or move aside and give one of the many thousands out there who would love your job the opportunity to do it and work from that amazing Apple Park location (id love to work there!).

I agree, but think Apple could increase WFH to 3 days. For a tech company, 2 days WFH isn’t particular generous. Apple literally creates products that enable online meeting and collaborative work. 🤪🤪 Believe in your people, as well as your product.

However, 100% WFH leads to legitimate questions around “quality” of project and team work, and teams, that may be decreasing in quality over time that would be hard to measure at this point.

Are there mental health issues, especially for new employees and graduates who may never feel like part of the company, or part of a team? Reports indicate, “Yes.” Does this reduce employee retention, physical health, or mental health? Increase sick days?

Is it “productive” that you can work on a “team” with someone, right now and for many years into the future, but not know anything about them as humans? Would long-term productivity be greater if you required people to come to the office 1-2 days per week?

Would productivity improve if you had genuine relationships/friendships with some of your co-workers?

I doubt WFH affects teamwork in financial settings as much as it does in engineering settings. I work in a hospital, and WFH would absolutely work for many people if it was 3 days per week, but in-person for 2.

 

[Le0M]

Three days at work, four days at home.
I think that's a pretty good deal already.

Also, employees already signed a contract, so WFH is just extra.