Apple Employees Testing Apple Pay Cash Internally in iOS 11.1

[doelcm82]

I assume you don’t use credit cards either?

I don't know why you would assume that.

I don't like fees, but I use credit cards for almost everything I buy. With the credit card, I don't pay extra fees, usually. In fact, I get reward points that I can use for other products or services in the future.

I realize that the fees are built into the merchant price, but if I paid cash or used a debit card, I would still be paying that built-in fee.

Every month I pay my credit card balances in full. I don't like paying interest, either.

Even ALDI takes credit cards (and Apple Pay!) now, and the price of their macaroni and cheese has not increased (still 33 cents for the box).

 

[Wrong Turn]

Sweden is currently still lacking Apple Pay (I think it is supposed to be released end of year).
But this feature is gonna fail so hard here.
We already have a very well known service called “swish” which is not limited to your platform, actually even stores and say different clubs have them (to be used in kiosks for example).
The app of course has access to your contacts (it uses phone numbers), but also supports QR-code, so it is just as simple as sending via iMessage.
Not only that, it sends the money directly to your account, not some other account which you have to transfer the money from.
The only downside of it as far as I know is that it only supports debit, but I am not sure.
I am pretty sure that if this feature is released in Sweden, it will already have lost.

 

[ds2000]

Meanwhile people at the cutting edge are working with blockchain and tangle

 

[Abazigal]

What people don’t seem to realise is that payment platforms such as Venmo tend to be limited by location. Living in Singapore, I don’t have access to Venmo or Square Cash, which are US only. Apple Pay cash could potentially allow me to transfer money to another person living in a different country, provided it supports Apple Pay.

 

[throAU]

I still don't see the benefits of this over Square Cash

Anyone can send me money via Square Cash, and with my Cash Card I can spend at places where there's no Apple Pay (still lot's of big brands!)

outside of the USA, nfc payment has been around for about a decade and is ubiquitous at this point....

 

[apoltix]

Sweden is currently still lacking Apple Pay (I think it is supposed to be released end of year). But this feature is gonna fail so hard here.
We already have a very well known service called “swish” which is not limited to your platform, actually even stores and say different clubs have them (to be used in kiosks for example).
The app of course has access to your contacts (it uses phone numbers), but also supports QR-code, so it is just as simple as sending via iMessage.
Not only that, it sends the money directly to your account, not some other account which you have to transfer the money from.
The only downside of it as far as I know is that it only supports debit, but I am not sure.
I am pretty sure that if this feature is released in Sweden, it will already have lost.

Sweden (and Denmark and Finland) will get Apple Pay soon, but not Apple Pay Cash, yet.

MobilePay from Denmark has the same strong foothold, so there's no point in a product like Apple Pay Cash there. Apple Pay maybe, since that's like a normal contactless card (with extra security and usually no amount limits, but the technology is the same), which is widely used today.

But the main downside is merchants' fees for credit cards, while many accept MobilePay for free, even if backed with a credit card (which is free to use as your money source inside MobilePay).

 

[CristianM]

I'm not familiar what the fees are for using a credit card for other apps like Venmo. What are those fees, if any? I assumed 3% was normal for credit cards, since debit cards are free

Sending money from one card to another within the same country is free, at least in the countries I've seen it (UK, Ireland).

 

[NightFox]

From what I understand, when you receive cash this will go to a personal Apple Pay account rather than being credited to a debit or credit card you have stored in Apple Pay. So, does this mean that every Apple ID will now automatically have an Apple Pay account, or will first-time recipients need to go through a set-up process?

I see this Apple Pay account service is being provided by a company called Green Dot. Does this mean the service is going to be US-only until partners can be found in other countries, or can Green Dot function world-wide (I know I can make payments, but can I transfer money from a Green Dot account to a UK bank account for example?). Also, will the end-user need to go through Green Dot for certain transactions (like transferring money received through Apple Pay to a personal bank account), or will Apple provide the front end to this making Green Dot (or whoever) invisible to the user?

Ok time to scour the internet for that profile...

But your Apple ID needs to be white-listed as well, so you're not going to get far even if you do find the profile.

 

[DavsDue]

Everybody that says 3% are normal for every transfer apps, are wrong.
Danish made Mobilepay have 0% fees for all transactions and fees are only applied on the sellers side.
The fees are added for how many transactions you get per year and not in procent per transaction.
Mobilepay is implemented almost everywhere in Denmark. From the big public transport apps down to the small flea markets. QR codes are easy to create/scan, and you only need the receivers phonenumber in order to make payments.
P.S. Mobilepay have even made app, WeShare, that makes it easy to keep track of posts when the group is on a trip, party or something else. You can share expenses, send photos and chat in the same app.

Attached an image of the transactionprices.

 

[mariusignorello]

But your Apple ID needs to be white-listed as well, so you're not going to get far even if you do find the profile.

I’m not going to get into the details, but finding the profile is much harder than getting whitelisted.

Here, I'll give you some eye candy (see attachment). It's blurry so you know it's real!

 

[Commentist]

Sending money from one card to another within the same country is free, at least in the countries I've seen it (UK, Ireland).

I haven't seen credit card to credit card transfers in the UK (and you'd need to pay the "cash advance fee", I expect - 3%-5% with a minimum charge). My banking app has a feature where I can send cash to any mobile (not just smartphone) - I think the recipient can then use any ATM to get actual cash. This seems to be pretty common.
I haven't found a need for it yet, though - I generally use bank account-to-bank account transfers if I need to send money (free, instantaneous and you might be able to reclaim the money if there's a mistake/fraud).

 

[rotax]

Fees for cash advances vs charges and interest rates usually differ. If you send money from a credit card will it not be seen as a cash advance? Would be great if it was a charge, even if there is a 3% fee.

I also wonder how this will work internationally and if it will change currencies and rates that will be used that represent fees.

 

[DeepIn2U]

3% fee? Get lost

Why would you send money using a Credit Card in the very first place?
Alternatives:
- Pre-Paid CC to whom requires it.
- Use debit to transfer funds so they an use it if their in a different city and don't have physical Pre-Paid CC.

Done and Done. If you already use Apple Pay for Debit then you're already trusting the system.

 

[Cougarcat]

I disagree. Suppose Apple released Messages for Android last year. There’s no point. People can use any number of SMS solutions. However, assume Apple does it when they also offer peer cash transfers from a company people trust FAR more with data privacy than Venmo, Square, or the like. That’s a money printing machine.

Ever since Steve Jobs announced FaceTime would be an open standard and nothing came of it, I’ve become highly skeptical of iMessage ever going cross platform. Would love to be proven wrong, though.

 

[gaximus]

You don’t need an account, see for yourself

cash.me/$JoshECouch

Cool, now send me money, I don't have an account.

 

[SoN1NjA]

Cool, now send me money, I don't have an account.

I need a phone number or email of yours, and I need about .18c more in my account since the minimum is $1

 

[BuddyTronic]

What I really want to know is if this will be as safe as cash for things like Craigslist sales of iPhones? Will there be chargebacks? Or, can there be a case where the money goes back to the sender?

Yes, this is the key to a real "cash" payment system.

 

[kyjaotkb]

Problem is nobody uses Square Cash to send money. They use Venmo or regular cash.

In Europe at least, we use bank transfers. Immediate and free. You just need to share your IBAN number with your friend. I have never seen anyone use Venmo or Square Cash. Paypal, maybe, in the old days.

 

[0970373]

In Europe at least, we use bank transfers. Immediate and free. You just need to share your IBAN number with your friend. I have never seen anyone use Venmo or Square Cash. Paypal, maybe, in the old days.

US Banking is very very different than EU banking.

 

[fairuz]

In Europe at least, we use bank transfers. Immediate and free. You just need to share your IBAN number with your friend. I have never seen anyone use Venmo or Square Cash. Paypal, maybe, in the old days.

To elaborate on what E3BK said, bank transfers are neither easy nor free for us except in certain cases, unfortunately. Judging by my 2 visits to France, some time between 2001 and 2008, Europe both caught up to and surpassed the US in terms of digital banking.

 

[0970373]

Fees for cash advances vs charges and interest rates usually differ. If you send money from a credit card will it not be seen as a cash advance? Would be great if it was a charge, even if there is a 3% fee.

I also wonder how this will work internationally and if it will change currencies and rates that will be used that represent fees.

I've never used my CC on Venmo but it's likely a charge rather than a cash advance. Venmo charges your debit card for the amount and then sends it to your recipient. A cash advance requires a PIN at the ATM or a deposit that you initiate on the CC website I think. I've never taken a cash advance on a CC so I could totally be wrong. lol.

As far as international exchanges, I doubt this will be possible (not anytime soon, anyway) due to the regulations of each country. Easier for the EU, not so much for the US. Which is likely why these apps have never really taken off overseas - they don't need them. Most of the world works in an ACH system already where even invoices are paid this way. But in the US, we are still writing and depositing physical checks. For my Loan Out, it's either a check or Wire, which involves a fee from my bank so I choose a paper check. The US is really really behind on all of this. The only direct deposit system is in payroll and that only came about because there was so much fraud & theft on the paper checks that were being sent out.

 

[fairuz]

Why would you send money using a Credit Card in the very first place?

If you don't know better. First of all, many stores take CC without an extra fee, so you expect there to be none. Venmo's site used to say in big letters at the top "Venmo is free to use," then more stuff about it being free below, then in smaller letters after you scroll down that there's a 3% credit card fee. They changed it at some point, probably because it was so criminal. But really it should say that in the app when you try to add a CC. IDK if Venmo does, but I know some apps/sites don't make it apparent.

 

[kyjaotkb]

To elaborate on what E3BK said, bank transfers are neither easy nor free for us except in certain cases, unfortunately. Judging by my 2 visits to France, some time between 2001 and 2008, Europe both caught up to and surpassed the US in terms of digital banking.

Interesting, I wasn’t aware of this. Thanks for the extra background!