Apple Ends Partnership With Former Design Chief Jony Ive

[jasoncarle]

I'm a little sad that thin isn't in anymore for tech products. Because thin also equaled lighter which is what I miss most at least with the portable devices. Either I'm getting old or iphones just keep getting heavier.

Maybe I just need to not have it in my hands as often? But don't take my battery life away.

There's nothing wrong with thin until it starts impacting actual usefulness of the device for things other than being a fashion accessory. Apple was at that point of making fashion accessories and not useful devices.

 

[urnotl33t]

How long until Cloud Computing and internet speeds develop to the point that someone could pay a monthly fee to access a full OS and superior processing power from a server, rather than from an expensively designed box. iCloud and Dropbox are the infants of this technology. You could potentially sign into your computer from any piece of glass you have to hand, without necessarily being tied to a specific brand.

That trope has been around since the 1960s, maybe 1950s. I've heard that exact same story back when I worked with others in the 1990s when "100 megabit Ethernet was it! This is gonna do it! We have the bandwidth now! 10x what we had with 10mb!"

Uh-huh. Didn't happen. Oh we had fake versions of it. One was called "Citrix metaframe". Yeah. That Citrix. Same crap as today. Except the server backend kept changing. SNA and a token ring bridge (serial lines to dumb TN3270 or TN5250 terminals), no now it's OS/2, no now it's UNIX (of various varieties) with remote X display terminals (ahh good ol X11 hack days), no now it's Windows (ugh a mess with 3rd party crap), no it's UNIX again or rather Linux (back to X displays and Hummingbird client for
Windows), no the other UNIX (Solaris, or AIX maybe), no back to Windows with straight Terminal Services, but the cheap one.... ok we'll just do all of them (Citrix Winframe.. geez a disaster). Now it's a virtual-ish thing ... oh crap now Microsoft did one themselves...

At times, the fad was Terminal Services, then the TS gateway blah blah, then Remote Desktop, then RD Gateway, no now we gotta do all the varieties...

Then other random small time hack job players like SecureLink...

All of these are terrible, all of them fail to do the job... "thin client" is a mirage because YOU CAN'T DO THIS!! You'll never have the bandwidth, you'll never have the "right" backend, it's easier to push the work to the client and the server transmits small data and let the client do more of the work (iCloud).

Having a pool of big honkin' servers with humans and expertise is expensive and no one wants to put that much money, time, and work into it. Now Microsoft does the Windows 365 subscription which is.... RD Gateway effectively but massively distributed on their infrastructure that you pay them to be the specialized experts (which they are, and spectacularly so; kudos to them). Even so, that requires some "recent version of a client for Remote Desktop on some recent PC or device.. none of which are super thin clients.

So no... no such thing as "super thin client" that will be universally operable. People tend to want their work/data/"files" on hand when the Internet goes out. Unplug your cable modem and count how long before your family of "users" comes screaming. I wager 5 seconds... and don't say "well you can have a local cache with some viewer app in read only mode..." bzzzt. That's by definition no longer a "super thin client".

This is a pipe dream. And pipes are meant for smoking.

 

[urnotl33t]

They couldn't have ripped that bandaid off any slower if they had tried. Well, actually, I think that was the point. They did try. I think it was Steve Jobs and Jony Ive, and they probably were somewhat desperate about losing him. You'd have to be desperate to be a three trillion dollar company that is notoriously insular and outsource your most-prized asset—design—to a third party company. I have to think he made good contributions besides the things people lambast him for. Apple has gone back and forth throughout the years with making incredibly modular, easy to repair products, with some odd choices and less repairable products. Ive designed the Molar Mac, which definitely put function over form. Maybe with someone smarter at the helm with product design than Cook, Ive could have continued successfully with a sparring partner. Tim Cook's skills seem to be in the field of intimidation, international economy, and supply logistics. I think as sad as parts of his role are to the state of the world (the worst parts of globalization), he's very good at them. It just seems to be what he was already doing before Steve Jobs left and then died. I mean, they weren't even planning on Steve actually relenting control. As sick as he was, he was remaining chairman and probably would have continued providing product advice. They were probably all in denial. He's never actually been replaced. Not just in a "He can never be replaced" type way, but in a literal way. No one has taken the role he created, which was of tastemaker. Tim Cook is a COO who fills the ceremonial role of CEO, but he's not like other tech CEOs (not passionate about the actual products like even Mark Zuckerberg however much people might detest him). Under Cook, they've lost someone who by all accounts was a great NeXT software engineer and knew the iPhone OS in and out, Scott Forstall. They lost Ive. I'm in no position to work at any tech firm, but if I were, not sure I'd pick the one led by someone who seems like he'd be just as suited at being CEO of Herbalife.

TL;DR: In short, I think they had good reason to worry about losing him. They've already lost a lot more than just him, though. Tim Cook is good for shareholders, not sure if he's great for the people who loved Apple before Wall Street did.

Indeed. The Forstall bit was most salient. There was an article $somewhere about Forstall being the CEO-in-waiting. He literally was the next best in line; he just needed some grooming and tutelage, which he would have gotten if he and Tim agreed more (and if he fought less with Ive.. a bit petulant, Forstall was).

Too bad we may never see that history come to pass. I'd like to slip into that alternate universe one day to see how it goes... maybe. 😂

 

[Enlightened Doggo]

From the comments here it seems to be widely believed that Ive is personally responsible for some of the biggest product blunders at Apple in the two decades. That may or may not be true, but remember there were always people above his pay grade and buck stops at the top. Talented designers are highly creative individuals. Creativity is chaotic by nature and needs proper oversight. Other team leaders seem to have become more visible at Apple in recent years, and that seems to be doing them some good.

 

[germinator]

About time. Great news.

 

[urnotl33t]

Like relatives and fish - they stink when they've stuck around too long, and he isn't worth $100M. He pushed apple forward for sure, then ran right off a cliff pursing 'light and thin' at the expense of 'functional and usable'. That over-rotation gave us a lot of bad decisions that are now, thankfully, being returned to balance.

It wasn't that he's a bad designer, it's that he 1) had way to narrow a focus on light and thin, and 2) vastly too much authority. Design can hinder UX as much as enhance it, and he crossed that line many many times.

Maybe. If we had Apple Silicon back then, then thinness might not be such an issue, thermals-wise. He may have been trying to push toward optimal thermal conditions faster than was possible (intel...grrr). Maybe. Just throwing out a bone.

Yeah at some point, fragility and physics kick in, so.. perhaps not. Memories of the bendable iPhone 6 and some iPads come to mind, too.

Camera optics are the next thin frontier, tho. This is where it gets really "interesting". Periscope lenses are just the first wave. Gotta kill off hose stupid camera warts. It's ridiculous.

 

[zapmymac]

Apple needed this, next chapter being closed/open.

 

[Shirasaki]

Good riddance. Remember, those products are produced so people can USE THEM for work, entertainment etc, not to worship in a shrine daily to enjoy its design beauty. Form should never get over function for computer, phone, tablet and whatnot. Apple is a tech company, not an artwork company.

Now people can actually use those latest apple silicon MacBook Pro for work rather than fighting weird design choices and unnecessary sacrifices just so that machine looks “nice”. Much like notch, when you get into your work/game/whatever, the design should be there to subtly support the experience, not jumping out at all times.

 

[turbineseaplane]

People talking about "usability" and "Apple" in the same sentence..

Folks, we have a long way to go

 

[goobot]

Bring back forstall

 

[macrumors3131]

Good for both. I'm curious to see what Ive can do next without Apple lingering about.

 

[SoldOnApple]

Ive was very design focused and I think Jobs really appreciated that, even if it was design to the detriment of usability sometimes. Ive helped shape Apple into what it is today and he's earned all the hundreds of millions he got from Apple. I'm interested to see what Ive does in the future.

 

[richinaus]

All those deriding Ive have no idea about design and the process of creation, and the impact he has had on Apple.
In fact I would be close to betting there would be no Apple without him right now, or at least a very different one from the one you experience.

I do enjoy reading posts like he is no good on his own. How do you know how good Jobs would have been without him. They were an amazing partnership.

For me, things have gone down hill since he left. There is little joy in the design, but pure utilility.

Good luck to Jony though, and I am sure he will be enjoying himself with new clients and challenges.

 

[ArkSingularity]

Maybe. If we had Apple Silicon back then, then thinness might not be such an issue, thermals-wise. He may have been trying to push toward optimal thermal conditions faster than was possible (intel...grrr). Maybe. Just throwing out a bone.

I'm kinda surprised to see them bring back the thicker Macs on the 14" and 16" models with Apple Silicon. You'd think they would have done that with the i9 MacBooks a couple years back, but instead we got a thermal dumpster disaster that couldn't even reach its base/non-turbo clocks and sustain them without overheating.

They fixed a lot with these Apple Silicon Macs, and truth be told, the ultra thin form factors have grown on me. It's really quite amazing how much performance they packed in such a small form factor on these. I just wish they could have found a way to fit in a few more ports. I have mostly USB-C devices (including USB-C adapters for my external monitors), but I still don't physically have enough USB-C ports to plug them all in without a dongle.

 

[Jim Lahey]

With no influence from Ive, I quietly predict Apple’s slow spiral will quickly accelerate down the plug hole.

And before anyone breaks out the spreadsheets, I’m not talking about profit. I’m talking about the company as a purveyor of peerless product design and software.

 

[TightLines]

Good riddance. Remember, those products are produced so people can USE THEM for work, entertainment etc, not to worship in a shrine daily to enjoy its design beauty. Form should never get over function for computer, phone, tablet and whatnot. Apple is a tech company, not an artwork company.

Now people can actually use those latest apple silicon MacBook Pro for work rather than fighting weird design choices and unnecessary sacrifices just so that machine looks “nice”. Much like notch, when you get into your work/game/whatever, the design should be there to subtly support the experience, not jumping out at all times.

Its a shame that some people will not give others the credit they deserve. First of all, if you want something like you describe above then you can always just go buy one of the dime a dozen PC’s out there… doesn’t matter what brand… they all are ascetics deprived… but you would fit the mold of their target customer.

Secondly, that man was the visionary for many of the iconic devices Apple has come out with and others try in vain to copy… he has won numerous awards for his designs in those products and is deserving of those recognitions.

Lastly, the stuff he and other designed are one of the things that set Apple apart from the other tech manufactures and why so many people are willing to pay that Apple premium… so to be given the scorn he is receiving by some is wholly unjustified.

People often forget that successes are often followed by many failures… he wasn’t without failures, but he more times than not got things right and Apple reaped the rewards for that. He was part of the group that actually makes the things that earn real money for Apple - not some Wall Street minded person who does very little by way of earning money for them… they try to prove their worth by finding things to cut and reduce, and standardize… and in the same way, just becoming satisfied with the run of the mill crapola out there… kinda like the PC folks settle for. Ivy wouldn’t settle for run of the mill… he was a “Think different“ type…

 

[Jim Lahey]

Form should never get over function for computer, phone, tablet and whatnot.

I disagree. Design is a compromise. If your assertion were true then all smart phones would be 3” thick, weigh 1kg and have month-long battery life. But they aren’t, and don’t. Why? Because they wouldn’t sell. People want stuff to look nice. Including computers.

 

[Havoc035]

While I admire his work, sometimes it’s better for both parties to move on. This was probably one of those.

 

[UnusedLoginID]

He must be weeping super-thin tears.

Tears of gold... I'm not going to pity him...

 

[Octavius8]

Apple design and innovation died a long time ago.
Apple is just recycling over and over its designs. We expect how the iPhone 15 or 16 is going to look (rounded edges!)
Tim is an operations guy, not an innovator nor user of Apple products.
That’s why a whole country had to go against 1 single company in Asia, and still can’t match many of its products.
Shame.

 

[UnusedLoginID]

Johnny Ive's more recent work gave us butterfly keyboards and touch bars. Sometimes, a guy just needs to know when to retire. Glad Apple forced it along before more damage could be done.

You forgot "Force Touch". Steve Jobs never wanted a two-button mouse so Apple came up with the "you press it and then press it more and it will do something unexpected so you get really frustrated" trackpad.

 

[Johnny907]

Bye. Take your butterfly keyed white bezeled pastel nightmares with you.

 

[one more]

Sad news. Jobs and Ive worked in a tandem and what a tandem it was! They both rebuilt Apple from ashes to become one of the most admired and successful tech companies in the world. Both men put their souls into their creations. Apple will be alright without Ive, obviously, yet it won’t be quite the same, IMO.

 

[Bonte]

I like the new Apple, function over form. External design has become easy, everything is already small and thin enough.

 

[macduke]

It's a shame Steve Jobs rubbed off on him so hard. He developed a complex and couldn't work with others. He wanted full control and he nearly ruined Apple's entire product lineup in the process. When he left initially I was sad but having seen the work Apple has done since then, I'm no longer sad. His design acumen still informs the decisions they are making at a higher level but they don't let it be the defining focus of the product as much as they once did. I expect them to continue moving towards center. I just hope they don't go too far the other way. All things in moderation.

Literally took my Magic Mouse off the charger before getting back on my Mac to check the news. Hope Apple keeps making their products better and we can get a mouse that can charge while you use it, like their keyboard does. I love the Magic Mouse so much otherwise.