Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

[turbineseaplane]

We know the BOM on this device is quite low, they should cut into their huge margins because it is a gateway device to their services, which we know is where they really want to make their money.

Such a great point. It's really odd they are trying to make good money on the ATV hardware itself.

They are so into "services" now, you'd think they want the ATV hardware to fly off the shelves since it provides by far the best version/experience of all their Apple services.

There just seems to be no coherent plan here..

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Unsurprising, surely. Like HomePod it doesn’t really solve anything; all it does it aggregate content. No matter what you search for, you’re still going to have to accept the fact one item will be part of a service, another won’t and requires a separate subscription and so on…

Unless you prefer physical media or buy through iTunes, there is no solution to this.

All it does is reiterate my point about Tim Cook. He said that Apple would only enter markets where it felt it could make a significant contribution.

But I don’t see this happening when they refuse to provide a range of options, instead of a single (relatively) expensive product.

 

[Caliber26]

I just want an AppleTV HDMI stick for my wall-mounted TVs. Is that so much to ask for? Please, Apple.

Especially since AppleTV is the only streamer that works with the Spectrum cable app, to eliminate the need for a cable box and the monthly fee that comes along with it.

 

[4jasontv]

Fair...

The thing is - I'm not sure a feature like "up next" needs a $180 box to get it done.

No, but the $180 keeps it far less riddled with ads. All the other boxes are smeared with them.

I don’t want special offers on my kindle and I don’t want ads on my remote or menus. I’ll pay the upfront cost to make the day to day experience better.

 

[ipponrg]

We use up next 90% of the time. The exception is YouTube which has so much new content per day I’m not sure if want it added, and Netflix. Funny thing is, we don’t watch much Netflix anymore because it’s not on up next.

I might be one of the few, but I actually don't use the Apple TV app. I just use the Up Next / Continue Watching within the respective app. The fact that not all apps are in the Apple TV app, causes a little more friction to use if you happen to use one of those apps.

 

[tomtad]

It is the same problem the HomePod has. A premium product in a commodity market. Everyone gets free or subsidized products from the competition.

But why's that a problem? That is exactly Apple's strategy with Apple TV, to provide the best living room streaming box. And it does.

Aiming for big market share you'd have to either sell the product at a loss, or compromise on the product, and for this supposed big market share what exactly would Apple gain? TV+ is available on other platforms so it would hardly drive subscriptions. Maybe additional movie sales, but really most people are paying subscriptions to other companies like Netflix to watch movies. And the experience would likely be compromised with cheaper hardware.

Personally I'd like to see Apple double down on this being a premium TV experience, and an extension of your iPhone, with features like FaceTime - SharePlay seems made for Apple TV if you could hook up a camera. Arcade would also be great if Apple made a dedicated games controller for example. Make the most of this being a powerful box rather than a race to the bottom chasing marketshare.

 

[turbineseaplane]

No, but the $180 keeps it far less riddled with ads.

That doesn't have to be the tradeoff.
The device should be positioned as a gateway to their services

 

[turbineseaplane]

Aiming for big market share you'd have to either sell the product at a loss, or compromise on the product, and for this supposed big market share what exactly would Apple gain?

They are in the entertainment services business.
Customer impressions of those services depends upon the experience.

The ATV box provides the best experience using their services.

Not getting the ATV boxes into as many hands as possible actually can damage the impression of and success of their lucrative services businesses.

 

[4jasontv]

I might be one of the few, but I actually don't use the Apple TV app. I just use the Up Next / Continue Watching within the respective app. The fact that not all apps are in the Apple TV app, causes a little more friction to use if you happen to use one of those apps.

Yea, I get that. Our solution was to not give that service our money or attention if they can’t code the bare minimum for the platform.

 

[4jasontv]

That doesn't have to be the tradeoff.
The device should be positioned as a gateway to their services

Clarify please, because I feel like you just described an ad.

 

[centauratlas]

Discontinuing it would be idiotic for Apple. It is the main device that ties in photos, videos and the entire ecosystem.

I’m not sure what he is smoking, but it must’ve been some bad stuff to think discontinuing it is a good idea.

Drop the price and make it a loss leader (or zero margin) and sell a ton.

 

[ersan191]

The overly powerful hardware is mostly wasted if you don't game.

Try using a Fire TV stick or any Android/Google TV product besides a Shield and tell me that, they drag hard when doing basic navigation.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Clarify please, because I feel like you just described an ad.

See my post above

The device should be sold as close to cost as possible (or a stripped down alternative version made).
ADs need not be part of it. The thing is drastically overpowered for just being a gateway to services box.

That power is only needed for gaming. I'd diverge the line and make an ATV Air and ATV Pro (the latter focuses even more on gaming and includes a controller...while the former gets the price down)

I don't think people realize just how much the general populace simply "Wants to watch stuff".
The ATV is trying to do too much and is too expensive for vast swaths of the user base as currently positioned.

You don't have to take my word for this - the article and people inside Apple are obviously having frustrations around these points (thus why we are here commenting - the article at the start)

 

[Metatron]

It’s fairly obvious that in a post COVID world, not having FaceTime with an apple soundbar/camera combo is just stupid. Instead of having to change users, the OS recognizes you. Likewise, taking work or personal video calls with FaceTime and 3rd party apps is a real need. And let’s not forget at home schooling possibilities. These would be amazing additions to the platform. Finally, apple needs to buy Nintendo or become such a large shareholder, there games are always coming to AppleTV. This would justify the current price.

 

[ApostolisApo]

Except quality.

quality of life > quality

I 've had an Apple TV 4 for some years but became so fed up with the sync problems of its games (where I should magically switch devices and continue from I left off) that I sold it to get Stadia + Chromecast Ultra.

Now I just talk to my Nest Hub and tell it to play whatever on Youtube, Netflix, Disney+ and the video just pops up on my TV. Or I can stream from my Oculus Quest directly to the TV.

The only thing that keeps me from throwing away my Homepods is Apple Music integration and Homekit. For everything else Google FTW.

 

[WhoDaKat]

For my house, iPads have really cannibalized the Apple TV usage. We have Apple TV’s on all of the TVs but the TV itself doesn’t get used nearly as much as it used to.
Everyone wants this HomePod Apple TV hybrid with a screen, but personally I think it’s a loser. I’m not sure what purpose it would be serving. I think a much more winning strategy for the living room is an M1 Apple TV that jumps in the ring with PS5 and Xbox. $199 for a streaming box that the kiddos can play top tier games on could help their cause.

 

[827538]

I've always wished my Apple TV had a coax input with an ATSC 3.0 tuner so it could perform all the functionality I want from my TV and I wouldn't need to worry about the software of whatever TV manufacturer comes up with and drops support of. I like the UI and functionality of my Apple TV, I think it's a great device but having to switch to the TV remote and UI to watch TV then back again has always been a pain point.

 

[tomtad]

They are in the entertainment services business.
Customer impressions of those services depends upon the experience.

The ATV box provides the best experience using their services.

Not getting the ATV boxes into as many hands as possible actually can damage the impression of and success of their lucrative services businesses.

The way to make services work is to provide as many ways to access as possible. This is what Netflix does, this is what Spotify does, any platform will have these services on it. Apple seems to be learning this with TV+ now being available on other platforms and Music slowly expanding. But they still lag when compared to the competition.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Try using a Fire TV stick or any Android/Google TV product besides a Shield and tell me that, they drag hard when doing basic navigation.

Not true at all
I have the latest Chromecast with Remote and it works wonderfully.

It's for our "outdoor TV" as I needed something cheap and small (form factor mattered a lot).

It made me reconsider my whole future with Apple TV's actually.
Surprised how great it is for $50 (WITH a remote for $50)

It's actually embarrassing to Apple IMO.
An entire, really great, streaming solution with a remote that costs less than **just** the new Siri Remote.

The gouging in this space from Apple is outlandish, even by their standards.

 

[4jasontv]

See my post above

I did. I replied to it. I not searching for another post that might clarify what you mean. I’m just going to ask you. You said it’s a gateway to a service. That sounds like an ad for the service.

In any case, even if it’s cheaper and ad free no other streaming platform has offered that yet.

 

[dannyyankou]

Every successful apple product has disrupted the market in one way or another. The Apple TV doesn’t do anything unique.

It’s a great streaming box, don’t get me wrong. I have one just because I’m brand loyal lol. But why would someone buy an Apple TV when they can buy a Roku 4K HDR streaming stick with remote for a fourth the price? Sometimes even less when it goes on sale.

It’s not like the Apple TV is something that sucks you into Apple ecosystem, like the iPad and Mac do because of iCloud. Most of the apps you download on Apple TV are free, and you log in with third party credentials, so it’s not like you’re buying it for re-downloading already purchased apps.

 

[kalafalas]

If apple came out with a HomePod SoundBar with a built in Apple TV, and I could use my two HomePods as rear speakers, I would spend a lot of money on it right now. It could be a real strong alternative to Sonos that a lot of people would be into

 

[turbineseaplane]

I did. I replied to it. I not searching for another post that might clarify what you mean. I’m just going to ask you. You said it’s a gateway to a service. That sounds like an ad for the service.

In any case, even if it’s cheaper and ad free no other streaming platform has offered that yet.

No, you replied to a different post - I meant the one a couple above yours -- anyways..

Apple wants to make money on services.
Get the services in front of as many people as possible and in the best way possible (ideally).

Making the price of the box more competitive is a really important piece of that.
Nothing about it involves an AD supported model - nor does their box need to be expensive to not have an AD supported model. The box shouldn't be the profit center - the services should be.

I've laid this out a few times in here.
Cheers

 

[Blowback]

Love my Apple TV’s. The built in internet connectivity on my LG tv is terrible, doesn’t get updates after a year or two, never works quite right, constantly is bugging me with unwanted pop ups, and likely tries to send data about everything I watch home (pi-hole FTW).

Agree. From a privacy standpoint: ATV uber alles! After setting up my new Samsung, followed by some trouble shooting which required the internet, ALL internet connections to the tv have been disabled! Will probably check for updates when something doesn't work correctly....which I don't expect to happen. And, played around with the Apple, Netflix and other apps on the tv after purchase: slow and horrible. Will stick with the ATV and expect them to truly upgrade it when they have fleshed-out their movie and streaming products. Also: still have two working Homepods and a pair of iPods Pro.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If apple came out with a HomePod SoundBar with a built in Apple TV, and I could use my two HomePods as rear speakers, I would spend a lot of money on it right now. It could be a real strong alternative to Sonos that a lot of people would be into

I've always thought I might like this product...but with them not even making the OG Homepods anymore, I'd need to see what the plan really would be. HomePod Mini's don't cut it.