Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

[jlc1978]

I'm with the engineers.
Given what most of us all do with our boxes, the unit needs to be WAY less expensive.

An HDMI stick version with remote for $69/$79 would be about right (when accounting for some Apple tax)

Have a cheap stick + remote for those who mostly just "watch stuff" - and then have something more $199-$299 for gaming focused or interested users and include a remote and a controller.

WhileI agree, Apple tends not to go for the low end and a stripped down product would just cause people to complain "it don't do x lime the ATV."

I'd would love to have had the option instead of buying 4 ATV's for my house.
Which is why I went with Alexa instead of Homepods because I could get 4 or 5 for the price of 1 Apple product.

It is the same problem the HomePod has. A premium product in a commodity market. Everyone gets free or subsidized products from the competition.

Yes, and Apple's fundamental reason is they want to sell a game box / home automation hub / media center when no one really cares about that, they just want to watch TV and have a decent UI. Having used Roku/Firestick I much prefer the ATV's interface and speed.

 

[4jasontv]

No, you replied to a different post
I'm not going to litter the thread by copy/pasting my exact same reply again

I replied to your weirdly phrased reply to my post. Whatever man. If one is being asked to clarify by multiple people maybe edit the post to be more clear.

I see you edited it. The power is clearly needed since no other streaming platform works nearly as well. Even the new chromecast stutters as it scrolls through “sponsored content” in the menus.

Id ask you to show me an Ad free, consistent UX that is under $50. Under $100? Anything under $150? It doesn’t exist.

 

[Blowback]

Apple has been trying to crack the living room since 2006.
They tried it with the iPod hi-fi, and that failed for being overpriced.
They tried it with the first generation Apple TV, and that failed for being extremely overpriced, and also just being basically a hard drive for your TV that you couldn’t stream with, while streaming was becoming the new big thing.
With the Apple TV second and third generation, they were moving in the right direction. It was $99 so it wasn’t that expensive, it’s supported streaming, and it was extremely easy to use. But again, Apple was stubborn and didn’t open it to third-party apps, so it didn’t support everything, and it didn’t start supporting everything until super late in the game.
By 2015 when Apple decided to finally add third-party app support, they also decided to jack up the Apple TV‘s price and ruin the remote, so that didn’t help.
And now they’re stuck in a situation where the cheapest Apple TV that was released almost 6 years ago is still being sold for $149 whereas you can get a Google Chromecast for as low as like 20 bucks.
Sure, the Apple TV has a nice user interface and it’s easy to use and I love my Apple TV, but that’s not enough reason for anyone else to buy one.
Now I completely disagree with Mark that the solution might be to just discontinued the Apple TV. Even if the Apple TV will never, ever dominate, I still think that there’s a small percentage of people who absolutely love their Apple TV, and I would hate to see Apple just completely leave them in the dark.
But I don’t think that the strategy of introducing an extremely expensive home theater set up with a video camera and a $350 speaker all built-in is going to help their situation. That thing is going to be like $500, and have tons of cool features that most people won’t be able to justify forking over the money for. FaceTiming on the TV sounds like a cool thing, until it’s not.
It would be cool every once in a while for holidays and such, but am I going to want to FaceTime on my TV every single day? No. Am I going to want to handover $500 to be able to FaceTime on my TV? Absolutely not.
They should be working on a way to get the current Apple TV down in price. There is absolutely no justification for being $179 other than the ease-of-use, and that’s not good enough.
The 2015 Apple TV needs to go away, and they need to find someway to drop the current Apple TV in price. Even $129 would be better than $179, but if they could get it down to that old $99 price point, and get a good marketing strategy behind it involving the HomePod mini, AirPlay and enough crossovers, I think that would help a lot

You're so right about the FT aspect. Who doesn't watch tv, living room or bedroom, with the iPhone or iPad right there? Also, I get a FT call on the tv so I interrupt the program for everyone else? And if it's a private FT call?

 

[4jasontv]

quality of life > quality

I 've had an Apple TV 4 for some years but became so fed up with the sync problems of its games (where I should magically switch devices and continue from I left off) that I sold it to get Stadia + Chromecast Ultra.

Now I just talk to my Nest Hub and tell it to play whatever on Youtube, Netflix, Disney+ and the video just pops up on my TV. Or I can stream from my Oculus Quest directly to the TV.

The only thing that keeps me from throwing away my Homepods is Apple Music integration and Homekit. For everything else Google FTW.

Your setup is like the living room of my nightmare.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I replied to your weirdly phrased reply to my post. Whatever man. If one is being asked to clarify by multiple people maybe edit the post to be more clear.

Who else asked me to clarify?

I answered your exact question in a reply just above yours (not a reply to you directly)
Reading the existing posts before asking for more clarity helps us not clutter the joint up with redundancy.

 

[0128672]

What I find odd about the story is that the engineers have spoken directly to a reporter, and that it isn't a leak. I can't imagine Apple is going to be too pleased about that.

 

[kyjaotkb]

I have a 2020 top of the range Sony 4K OLED TV and the built-in, Android based UI is utter crap. It’s slow, laggy, requires hard reboots a couple of times a week, tried to spy on me through ‘personalized recommendation’ software when I set it up and is chock-full of add for Disney+ and Discovery on the TV’s home screen, that I can’t remove.
Oh and the processor is about as powerful as an Apple A7.
As long as TV manufacturers keep shipping that kind of total crap on a $2,000 TV, Apple engineers need not worry, they will keep selling those little overpriced but dependable boxes.

 

[t0pher]

why Would I want anything Apple in my living room?

 

[Blowback]

It is overpriced.
The remote sucked for years. Then they release the new one and charge more for the remote than most charge for their sticks. (I bought two because the old remotes were so bad)

The newest AppleTV was basically a cheaper newer almost-equal processor "upgrade" so they can likely shut down the production of the old CPUs, not to really give anyone new functionality or capabilities.

Their lack of strategy for years has been apparent. Whats weird is they are basically resting the destiny of some very large services on it.... AppleTV+ (yes, you can watch it else where, but due to the similar name, most people I talk to think you need an AppleTV box, or at least an Apple product, neither of which are true. It would have been better with a new non-apple brand name I think), and Apple Fitness... which lets be honest, works best on the TV for most things....

We know the BOM on this device is quite low, they should cut into their huge margins because it is a gateway device to their services, which we know is where they really want to make their money.

Almost forgot about Apple Fitness (which I use!). Yes, much better on a tv! Another plus for the ATV.

 

[X38]

Apple has always been too worried about what AppleTV isn’t instead of letting it be what it can be. It’s a powerful bit of hardware that they unnecessarily handicap. It is an iOS device and should be treated as such - just mind-boggling that it can’t run iMessage, FaceTime, Safari, Mail, etc. or third party equivalents on a TV screen. Also stupid that it doesn’t have a decent input channel - it should have multiple Thunderbolt / USB-C ports with the ability to add input from cameras for video chat, TV sources such as a cable box so that the AppleTV OS can be used as a source and channel selector and DVR, and overlay AppleTV functions on top of whatever source one is watching (such as an iMessage or FaceTime call in a PiP window) without having to switch the TV back & forth between some other source and the AppleTV. Apple is too caught up in their own hubris to do so though. All the hardware and software pieces needed for AppleTV to be a big deal have been there all along. The only missing piece has been Apple’s willingness to execute.

 

[robjulo]

Try using a Fire TV stick or any Android/Google TV product besides a Shield and tell me that, they drag hard when doing basic navigation.

I have no "drag" issues with my firestick. None.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

The main appeal of the Apple TV for me was the "ecosystem integration", but even that isn't so relevant for me personally as 1) mostly what I do with the Apple TV is watch Netflix/Hulu/Disney+ which can be done on any device and is not specifically tied to the Apple ecosystem and 2) the one "ecosystem" function that I really wanted (Podcasts app) works terribly (it lists many podcasts as having tons of "unplayed episodes" despite the fact that they have been played and display as such on my iPhone).

So then for me it's just going to be about smoothness and quickness of the UI and availability of apps. Apple TV does do well in that area, but so does much of the competition.

It does seem clear to me that they're not entirely sure what they want the Apple TV to be. It's one of the few remaining "boxes" while others have moved to sticks or built-in software in a SmartTV. Is it a gaming device? Is it the future of HomePod? The latter seems to be suggested by the rumor of the new device, but for now it isn't particularly compelling.

 

[Analog Kid]

engineers have personally expressed concerns to him about the direction

Walk through any engineering lab and ask what they think about marketing’s direction and you’ll hear grumbling. This isn’t evidence of anything.

 

[Cosmosent]

Too bad Apple doesn't promote macOS apps with an HDMI cable between a User's Mac & their 16:9 BIG screen TV.

'Cause if they did, there are some Gem Apps out there that would Reset expectations !

 

[turbineseaplane]

It does seem clear to me that they're not entirely sure what they want the Apple TV to be.

It's frustrating that they won't price it more competitively.

I think a lot of people would enjoy the general experience of it, but it starts easily $100 above where most people would even think about it when they just want to watch stuff.

My sister was just outfitting her house with upgrades at each TV for YouTubeTV and Netflix, etc..

It was $250 for all Chromecasts w/ Remotes -- or NINE HUNDRED dollars for Apple TV's.
I don't have to tell you what she chose. lol

 

[ApostolisApo]

Your setup is like the living room of my nightmare.

what exactly is bothering you? The Google stuff or mixing it with Apple stuff?

 

[Blowback]

I have a 2020 top of the range Sony 4K OLED TV and the built-in, Android based UI is utter crap. It’s slow, laggy, requires hard reboots a couple of times a week, tried to spy on me through ‘personalized recommendation’ software when I set it up and is chock-full of add for Disney+ and Discovery on the TV’s home screen, that I can’t remove.
Oh and the processor is about as powerful as an Apple A7.
As long as TV manufacturers keep shipping that kind of total crap on a $2,000 TV, Apple engineers need not worry, they will keep selling those little overpriced but dependable boxes.

Yep...EVERY tv....including the high-end models: loaded with crap/adds/spyware. This for me (not even counting using my iPhotos and other apps on the ATV) is the main reason for staying with the ATV.

 

[tomtad]

Apple has always been too worried about what AppleTV isn’t instead of letting it be what it can be. It’s a powerful bit of hardware that they unnecessarily handicap. It is an iOS device and should be treated as such - just mind-boggling that it can’t run iMessage, FaceTime, Safari, Mail, etc. or third party equivalents on a TV screen. Also stupid that it doesn’t have a decent input channel - it should have multiple Thunderbolt / USB-C ports with the ability to add input from cameras for video chat, TV sources such as a cable box so that the AppleTV OS can be used as a source and channel selector and DVR, and overlay AppleTV functions on top of whatever source one is watching (such as an iMessage or FaceTime call in a PiP window) without having to switch the TV back & forth between some other source and the AppleTV. Apple is too caught up in their own hubris to do so though. All the hardware and software pieces needed for AppleTV to be a big deal have been there all along. The only missing piece has been Apple’s willingness to execute.

Agree with this. Apple need to build out what it can do, being a smartphone on your TV, rather than race to the bottom in an attempt to get marketshare.

The fact it is more expensive and powerful than the competition need to be put to use. Hooking up a camera for FaceTime seems obvious, especially now with SharePlay, and if Apple pushed Arcade with a dedicated games remote for more casual games than those on Playstation/Xbox it could be a big draw.

It's iPhone on TV.

 

[4jasontv]

what exactly is bothering you? Google or mixing it with Apple?

Voice control, VR, and ads all hooked up to the TV. I get the tinker and explore mentality, so I don’t mean to come off as judgy, but each of those give me anxiety on their own. Putting it all into one would be a great way to get me to read a book.

 

[cmaier]

Walk through any engineering lab and ask what they think about marketing’s direction and you’ll hear grumbling. This isn’t evidence of anything.

That’s for sure. Engineers are always disappointed unless they get to build exactly what they feel like building. They don’t care what can actually sell (or they say they care, but they have no actual expertise as to what would sell to anyone other than other engineers).

As an engineer for decades, I own up to that same behavior in myself.

 

[Feyl]

Most TV’s today are smart and have pretty much the most used capabilities of Apple TV. The software is just not smooth enough, so people still buy an overpriced TV box from Apple. This is the only reason I bought the new Apple TV.

 

[ApostolisApo]

Voice control, VR, and ads all hooked up to the TV. I get the tinker and explore mentality, so I don’t mean to come off as judgy, but each of those give me anxiety on their own. Putting it all into one would be a great way to get me to read a book.

what ads???

Voice control creates you anxiety because you haven't tried Google Assistant

 

[LFC2020]

Drop the price by a $100 and they’ll fly off the shelves. 💰🏃‍♂️

 

[5425642]

Give us a sound bar and speaker system!

HomePod watch the wwdc

 

[donguevas]

A couple of things.

1. I have an Apple TV HD that I bought in 2015 at the same time as whatever the current Roku was. 6 years later the Apple HD still runs as smooth as the day I bought it. And the Roku was never as smooth and now is unusable. I have not used a newer Roku and I am sure they are smooth but the TCO of ownership for the Apple TV over 5 years is cheaper than buying a new Roku every few years. I had original Roku which was made out of sheet metal as well.

2.USB Stick Apple TV is a problem because of heat generated by them and not all USB ports on tvs are created equal and drive a powerful processor you are going to need external power. Like my google 4k chromecast which is dongle with a powe cord that hangs from the tv and puts undue weight on usb component part(most tvs are hanging on the wall)

3.I have not used a Fire Stick in awhile, but I do have one I keep for when I travel. Not the best interface but it is convenient because unlike the Apple TV it allows for Captive networks where you have to agree to terms. And I do not worry about leaving it because it was cheap.

4. The glass topped remote does suck. I replace it with a 5 dollar infrared remote from Amazon. I also bought a Spectrum Apple TV remote off of amazon which is wonderful.

5.A lot of TV providers allow you to use them as a cable box via streaming, so instead of renting a Cable box you have a one time purchase. Even spectrum sends them out to customers. Direct TV was the one who got the ball rolling 6 years ago with the HD. They are a lot more Apple TV's out there than most think.

Other than some high end Android stuff out there the Apple TV is far superior that the majority of streaming boxes and is especially easy to use, even for my 70 year old mother and non technically inclined wife.