Apple Engineers Working Overtime on iOS 7's 'DeForstallization'

[JSandefer]

Most people I hear talking about this wouldn't even have an opinion on skeuomorphism if someone hadn't told them to have one.

1. They feel cool talking about "skeuomorphic design," because they have to explain to most people what it means.
2. This makes them feel smart and trendy.
3. They want people to see them as a minimalist.

 

[slffl]

When I glance at someone using their phone, I should be able to tell what app they're using. I can do this EASILY with iOS. With Android and WP8, everything looks the EXACT SAME! You have to actually read read the text to see what app it is.

It's almost as annoying as the choppiness and dropped frames of Android.

 

[Boris-VTR]

lol. MS Office. Really? thats the measure you're going to use. MS Office that hasn't even evolved since 2010?

Of course. Its standard in todays office software. Along with windows.

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Most people I hear talking about this wouldn't even have an opinion on skeuomorphism if someone hadn't told them to have one.

1. They feel cool talking about "skeuomorphic design," because they have to explain to most people what it means.
2. This makes them feel smart and trendy.
3. They want people to see them as a minimalist.

You sir, are 100% right

 

[50548]

As a lawyer who probably has at least an inkling of an idea of how the market works, you should have a fairly good idea on why he did that.

Of course I do, but I don't have to agree with that. And yes, I have an economics degree as well.

Let's see what Apple can do with all that mountain of debt once interest rates go up while all the SJ-led innovation we've learned to love vanishes in thin air.

When all was fine and dandy, Sculley did it; then Spindler continued the trend; now it's Cook's turn.

 

[stacecom]

Due for an overhaul?

Apple's iOS has not had a serious design overhaul since the original iPhone was released in 2007, making it long overdue for an update.

So what determines whether something needs a UI overhaul is time? I'd think it would more be related to the actual need for one.

 

[dec.]

To UnSkeuomorph, and to DeForstallize is what "das interwebz" seems to shout out >> Dr. Ive: make it so.

If you count the amount of whiny people alone in this thread - I stand by it: Mixed messages coming from "das interwebz"!

 

[JHankwitz]

Redoing the GUI for the sake of modernization totally sucks. Any change to the GUI should be to make it easier to comprehend and use.

 

[50548]

1. How are they listening to analysts?
2. Innovation can't be done every darn year. It's a slow process. Should iPhone have holograms or what exactly do you want Apple to "innovate"?
3. Debt was issued because it was less expensive than bringing over their money from across the world.

Maybe you should become CEO. I'm sure you'd lead Apple to "glorious" decision making.

A lot of you tend to assume they know what Apple should and should not do. You guys are a joke. I'm sure Apple would be seeking your "glorious" advice if it was so wise, but it isn't which is why they aren't.

Who the heck is talking about being Apple's CEO?

All I am saying is: this talk about "impossible to always innovate" was deemed as certified BS when SJ was in charge, time and again.

His drive and his principles (re)invented the personal computer, the music player, the mobile phone, the media retail channel and the tablet. That's FIVE industries in less than 15 years.

On the other hand, what does Cook do? HE decides to distribute dividends to appease anal-ysts and make a few investment funds happy.

SJ refused to do such things no matter how big that pile of cash was. And why? Because he had a principled view towards growth and innovation.

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Until people get bored again and change it to a more flashy design and have people cheer about it not being boring. It really does not seem to matter what design they use as over time anything gets boring.

"Over time anything gets boring" - Exactly. And this is why we must have something called "innovation".

 

[maxosx]

So what determines whether something needs a UI overhaul is time? I'd think it would more be related to the actual need for one.

Under any other conditions, you'd be right. A UI update that would benefit from an overhaul would be a good candidate.

The problem is you are applying logic, common sense, and good thinking. Something that doesn't always fit with what goes on in the land of Apple Inc.

To now read about them "rushing" or whatever way one wishes to express this madness to hurry it to market is a bit out of whack. Ripe for errors and bugs, they are setting up their excuses well in advance. LOL.

 

[50548]

Please elaborate on your second point.

The only thing remotely innovative/exciting I can remember over the last 18 months is Fusion Drive. Does this answer your question?

 

[lucas107]

When I glance at someone using their phone, I should be able to tell what app they're using. I can do this EASILY with iOS. With Android and WP8, everything looks the EXACT SAME! You have to actually read read the text to see what app it is.

It's almost as annoying as the choppiness and dropped frames of Android.

Um maybe do you think its because you use IOS so maybe just maybe your used to what everything looks like. When I glance at someone using their android phone I am able to tell what app they are using. I can do this easily with android. With IOS and WP8 I actually have to read the text to see what app it is. Maybe its because I dont use an iphone or WP8 phone every day while I do my android. Im currently holding an iphone 4s and a htc one x in front of my face now and i really see no difference as i scroll, zoom, or open apps. Not sure what you are talking about there. Only difference I see is the keyboard on the htc looks/works a lot better to me.

 

[GuitarDTO]

Said it in another thread, but will say it again in this (seemingly the 20th thread on this topic), but PLEASE let Apple be working on more than just a big aesthetic makeover, or, "flattening". Add C U S T O M I Z A B I L I T Y ! ! !

 

[Patriot24]

Said it in another thread, but will say it again in this (seemingly the 20th thread on this topic), but PLEASE let Apple be working on more than just a big aesthetic makeover, or, "flattening". Add C U S T O M I Z A B I L I T Y ! ! !

Redesign or no redesign, I don't think you're likely to get a large amount of customization. Apple's stance on this has been very clear.

Unless there is a major development in their philosophy, I just don't see it happening.

 

[Renzatic]

Of course I do, but I don't have to agree with that. And yes, I have an economics degree as well.

Let's see what Apple can do with all that mountain of debt once interest rates go up while all the SJ-led innovation we've learned to love vanishes in thin air.

When all was fine and dandy, Sculley did it; then Spindler continued the trend; now it's Cook's turn.

From what (admittedly only a small bit) I understand, corporate interest rates are the lowest they've been in decades, and they're locked into it. Apple can use this loan for R&D, and assuming they get a nice return on their investment, will ultimately only be spending a small amount from their cash reserves. Why spend $15 billion on R&D when they can get that same amount on a loan, make it back and then some, and only have to actually spend a fraction of that amount for the interest from their savings.

The only downside would be if their investment goes south in a bad, bad way. But even then, the loan only accounts for 1/10th of their accumulated wealth, which means it can be paid back easily without breaking them. In the end, they'd end up losing only a slight bit more than what they would have if they didn't get the loan to begin with.

edit: which now that I think about it does seem to be delaying the inevitable. Though there's probably some advantage to being able to stretch out the investment and pay for it over a few years rather than dipping directly from their reserves all at once that I'm not seeing.

 

[BaldiMac]

Said it in another thread, but will say it again in this (seemingly the 20th thread on this topic), but PLEASE let Apple be working on more than just a big aesthetic makeover, or, "flattening". Add C U S T O M I Z A B I L I T Y ! ! !

That's kinda like hoping that Chick-fil-A is going to add beef to their menu.

 

[Rogifan]

Steve Jobs is dead. The leadership at Apple should be focused on doing what they think is right not what Jobs fanboys on the interwebs want them to do.

Also I find it amusing how many complained about the 4S looking just like the 4 and the 5 looking like a stretched 4 and wondering what Ive does with his time....and yet now we're getting complaints that there's nothing wrong with the UI and why is Apple changing it, change for change sake is stupid, etc. Seems a bit contradictory to me.

 

[jayducharme]

Call me crazy but some of those skeuowhajimacallit actually gives it charm in certain cases.

I agree. I think one of the things that might have attracted Jobs to them is that they make a potentially cold piece of technology feel more friendly to average users and especially to people who wouldn't normally use technology. I think it's been one of the reasons that iPhone adoption has been so high. People know what a notepad looks like, or a calendar. And for better or worse, Forstall and his team created analogs of them on iDevices. It probably made some people feel less threatened by the technology.

I think the trick to making skeuomorphisms work is to have that look integral to the function of the app. For instance, DJay is definitely a replica of a real turntable, but every piece of eye candy in that app is there for a reason and serves a function. However, the leather binding on Calendar is unnecessary. It serves no purpose other than to make it look like fake leather. (And again, for some people maybe that's comforting.)

 

[stol]

Oi, it is so funny reading comments form people who just picked up the terms "flat" and "skeuomorphic" and have decided that one is good and the other is bad design.

It is all relative. An all flat design gets extremely monotonous. All skeuomorphic can become too limiting. One is not better than the other, a blend of both can be used in a great design.

Agreed!

 

[pubwvj]

Microsoft is simply betting that by offering up a tablet UI on the desktop, everyone will target that, despite how annoying the UI is on the desktop.

Exactly. I don't want an iPad interface on my MacBook. I want to be able to use the apps from either on both. Big difference.

 

[dilbert99]

Nine women can't make a baby in one month.

But if you have 2 workers building Model A (OSX) and 2 building Model B (IOS) and you pull 2 workers off Model A (OSX) to help build Model B (IOS), you are not making any Model A (OSX) cars.

 

[samwight]

it's gonna fall flat

The one thing about Apple Notes that's better than all the other notes apps is its appearance.

When all you have to work with is a flat screen, anything that helps to establish context is good. I like my notes to look like notes -- very different from sterile formal reports, or emails, or web sites.

The context provided by the look of the contacts app or the iBookstore is extremely important. Who doesn't prefer to play chess with a 3d perspective image instead of a flat grid with flat symbols?

Ive is a genius with industrial design where context is automatic, but I prefer Jobs' instinct when it comes to software, and Jobs is why Apple is great.

And apples are round. Flat went out with Magellan.

 

[dampfnudel]

So iOS is going to look bland and boring. Awesome.

Let's wait and see how it looks first before we make a judgment. That sounds logical, right?

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For the love of God, hire more damn engineers and stop being so greedy with your damn cash reserves.

So annoying.

Something I can agree on.

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This is called Tim Cook in charge:

- Listen to anal-ysts and follow them instead of leading on your own;
- Stop innovating;
- Turn a natural growth stock into Nestlé/Microsoft;
- issue debt when no debt is needed.

Every party has to end.

 

[magpie maniac]

Deforstallization? And I thought that Apple was an environmentally-friendly company.

 

[dscuber9000]

For the love of God, hire more damn engineers and stop being so greedy with your damn cash reserves.

So annoying.

Yeah, who cares about quality?! It's all about quantity!

 

[fullauto]

I just hope they don't turn notes into textedit.. white and bland. Having 'taught' several over 60's how to use their iPad, they connect with these skeuomorphic designs because they are familiar. There's loads of users over 50 that may find stark, refined designs harder to deal with / use, simply because the designs seem less familiar to them, Apple designs psychologically, I hope they don't abandon that concept altogether.

Such drastic design changes could be a bad thing to a large percentage of their user base, they would be better off appeasing the frustrated with greater customisation options and additional functionality.

Creating and programming that balance would be such a major effort. Fingers crossed iOS8 isn't a case of 'oops we did it wrong, here's iOS6 again!'.