Apple Envisioned New Mac Pro's 'Cheese Grater' Design Years Ago

[bobthenob]

"... Apple is planning a rack-mounted version of the Mac Pro with a different chassis ..."

So if a monitor stand is $1k, the chassis will be, what, $2500?

 

[Dorje Sylas]

I think they still potentially left out companies both small and large.

I agree with this. Especially considering the after-market additions that will need to be added to make the machine actually useful. It's looking like you'll either need a 3rd party drive bay enclosure that eats a MPX Module zone, or you'll be stacking Thunderbolt 3 arrays/drives on top(or maybe under) of it. Alternatively putting in M.2 NVME risers into maybe 1 or 2 of the open PCIe slots.

What I really want to know is if those two 2TB SSDs are soldered in. It doesn't look like, but it isn't clear in the specs page. It's clear they sit behind the T2-Chip, but are they configured the like POS in the new Mini, were if the T2 chip fries you lose the drive. That would really suck to lose not one, but both drives for a single chip failure.

I'd personally like to see this chassis design, with the guts of an iMac Pro, sans built-in monitor. Accessible PCIe port, user upgradable RAM and storage.

If it wasn't for Apple cutting off my 2008 Mac Pro (3,1) from OS updates (may still see about hacking around to get Mojave on it), it would still be functional machine. The hardware is still good, except maybe CPU A. The biggest issue is the older RAM and PCIe 2 specs. It makes me concerned for the this new 2019 (6,1) model. What happens in 10 years when Apple cuts this model off, and the PCIe3 lanes are bypassed by PCIe4 and PCIe5. And the (3,1) almost half as much, even on max spec.

Again, a reconfigured iMac Pro's guts on this design, less the cost of a built in screen. That feels about the right target price/spec. The (6,1) feels like overkill * AppleTax * tariffs. As it stands the MacMinis remain my only, "this is okay to buy, but just watch out for the soldered SSD," item from Apple.
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"... Apple is planning a rack-mounted version of the Mac Pro with a different chassis ..."

So if a monitor stand is $1k, the chassis will be, what, $2500?

Yes, I would like to see what Apple wants for basically just the motherboard. They can keep their RAM, SSDs, and MPX Module GPUs.

 

[paulcons]

MPX is Apple extending the standard PCIe slot by adding a second slot to the rear of the standard slot, which incorporates additional PCI channels, Display Port, and significant power distribution. Think of it as PCIe + Thunderbolt on steroids. There are only two of these slots. You don't have to use them. They are only used if you choose MPX cards from Apple.

It looks like Apple is providing 2 types of MPX cards right now. One type has a single GPU, the other has dual GPUs. Yes, they have their own power connectors. It looks like standard power connectors are being provided on the motherboard for use with non-Apple cards.

NVMe - It looks like Apple is providing 2 NVMe-PCIe slots for SSDs. I don't think they're proprietary. I know you can get this type of SSD from OWC. We'll have to wait and see exactly what can be done when people get their hands on the hardware.

Looks like it's almost all Intel based hardware. Standard Intel CPU. Standard ECC RAM. Standard PCIe. Standard Thunderbolt. Standard USB. It even looks like there's some SATA connectors in there. Again, we'll have to wait to get hands-on to see what can be added.

I don't put much stock into the rumor of a switch from Intel to ARM chips, not at this level, probably not for any "Pro" Mac Apple makes. Even if Apple could make an ARM chip that could match the processing power of a 28-core Intel Xeon, it would not drop into the socket in the Mac Pro - the electrical requirements, pin-outs, signaling and architecture are completely different.

Ah, thanks... looking at the 4 "lower" pci slots... yes, 2 do seem to have an extra slot in line. So THIS is where those MPX "modules" go. Which essentially is a "different" kind of PCI card, one that only comes from Apple and is (I think) proprietary to this machine. "Module" is most likely a marketing term to denote something seriously expensive! I DO note that I saw a mention to some sort of RAID MPX card... THIS may be where one CAN add additional storage to the inside other than the NVMe slots right on the motherboard. It MAY be safe to assume that these MPX slots can not house any standard PCI cards... but we do have 2 more regular looking PCI slots down there as well.

Beg to differ on the mobo slotted NVMes, those cards I have never seen before and OWC has nothing looking even vaguely like them... good buddy who knows way more than I do also says the cards they are showing are unique and more than likely proprietary. I heard it's 2400 bucks up put 2 2T sticks in them... and very much so, more will be known when folks get their hands on them. There may or may not be issues using adapter cards in the 8 lane slots for standard sticks, all I really know there is it's not as simple as we might think AND I see most of that stuff seems to be designed for 4 lane slots and there are 8.

No question there is a lot to learn that many of us may be doing more speculation that coming from knowledge right now.

 

[buststyles]

Ah, thanks... looking at the 4 "lower" pci slots... yes, 2 do seem to have an extra slot in line. So THIS is where those MPX "modules" go. Which essentially is a "different" kind of PCI card, one that only comes from Apple and is (I think) proprietary to this machine. "Module" is most likely a marketing term to denote something seriously expensive! I DO note that I saw a mention to some sort of RAID MPX card... THIS may be where one CAN add additional storage to the inside other than the NVMe slots right on the motherboard. It MAY be safe to assume that these MPX slots can not house any standard PCI cards... but we do have 2 more regular looking PCI slots down there as well.

Beg to differ on the mobo slotted NVMes, those cards I have never seen before and OWC has nothing looking even vaguely like them... good buddy who knows way more than I do also says the cards they are showing are unique and more than likely proprietary. I heard it's 2400 bucks up put 2 2T sticks in them... and very much so, more will be known when folks get their hands on them. There may or may not be issues using adapter cards in the 8 lane slots for standard sticks, all I really know there is it's not as simple as we might think AND I see most of that stuff seems to be designed for 4 lane slots and there are 8.

No question there is a lot to learn that many of us may be doing more speculation that coming from knowledge right now.

Hello. Promise is the company developing the internal storage modules for the MacPro. Well at least the first one.

 

[paulcons]

I tell ya, the more I learn about this machine, the more I think that 2 years down the road it's going to be the same as the trash can has represented for the past few years. Cheesegrater has actually been very much a term of endearment among MANY Mac users... it will be sad to see that term become one of derision.

Face it, this machine is ONLY aimed at huge movie studio and effects houses (that have all mostly switched to PCs, no?) that can write off all the huge sums of money they out into computing hardware (TAX BREAK). I do NOT think it's a joke that one needs to spend north of $25K to get a really useful machine (add in 7 grand for the monitor). I know a fair number of Mac pro users (I used to be pro but classify as enthusiast at this point), in no way is this machine aimed at them at all. Not even in the same galaxy.

Take a guess how ready I am going to be to spend my money for services from a company that so easily CAN make a machine for me and hundreds of thousands if my fellow Mac friends but refuses to do so?

 

[konqerror]

Hello,
Do you think that it is also possible those handles will also serve to pull the Mac Pro out of a rack when it is laid on its side?

It won't fit in a rack. The specs put the whole unit at 20.8 inches tall with handles and feet, whereas a 19 inch rack has 17.75 inches between the posts. You can't put it sideways either because you'd have no space for cables. And it would be a bad design anyway because you'd have a handle only on one side.

If they didn't have to make major chassis modifications, they'd just say "rack kit available" like other brands, not "rack model coming soon".

 

[thinkpixels]

Mod - please delete, posted by mistake

 

[thinkpixels]

Correct on all 3 points.

Working as a "Pro" in a high end post house, which has seen over the years rates drop drastically due to increased competition from other countries (via internet work), more competition from smaller firms & freelancers, I can tell you that this thing is out of the $$ for most individuals/companies that want to remain in business. Like I said in another post this machine is DOA for us and we do high end TV/Film work...the clients already are clamoring for lower rates & ours are very competitive.

I think a good analogy is what the Verge was talking about which is this machine is a super car like a Lamborghini.

What Apple needed to build is the Audi model range for their 'PRO' users.

A4 - Everyday model almost 70% of their user base. Starts at $39K
S4 - Performance model with is about 20% of their user base. Starts at $50K
RS4 - High End Sports model which is about 5-10% of their user base. Starts at around 70K.

All these cars can also get upgraded in their category by 5-15K at least depending on add ons.

But the point here is that Audi has given their consumer buyer a range to choose from.

We aren't getting that here with the Mac Pro at all....we got the Lamborghini and they really left out the majority of their user base here without a modular Mac Pro.

Imagine if they would have done this with the Mac Pro where you had an modular entry level one for prosumers/users that didn't need a lot, then a mid level that would suffice for most power users and then the extreme one for those pro Hollywood type users.

Totally agree with this. I work at a medium-sized agency that had about 20 highly spec'd out mac pros in 2012, and we still have 6 or so in operation today and every year they would always buy a few new faster ones. However, when Apple stopped making them we slowly started switching to PCs, which many were not really fans of. The Mac OS file explorer with column view is better and faster to use than windows. We need high powered machines to render video efx, Cinema 4D and even VR. If they had released the S4 model referenced here, I could see our company looking at buying some of those once again. However, all I hear around the office is how ridiculous this new Mac Pro is and way over spec'd and overpriced for what we need. We badly need replacements for the aging Mac pros but this isn't it. Companies are in business to make money and keep overhead down. If you can do the job with a cheaper machine, that wins most of the time. We have now swapped over half of the Macs to PCs.

As for the design, it's a true shame that Apple has seemed to have lost its way, I used to be so proud to show off my Apple products. It really started with the notch on the iPhone X. One thing that got me to switch to Apple years ago and justify higher price tags was it had beautifully designed products. I've been holding on to my 7 hoping they reverse this but it seems bleak. I will probably give in at some point but the urge to upgrade every year has fleeted and I will basically upgrade out of necessity not desire.

Then that new Mac Pro, it's not sleek and cool looking. It's weird looking, not sleek at all and most of my design colleagues, (many of whom are Apple die-hards) agree. The old tower was a really nice design. Unique, clean, versatile and simple. Even the trash can although not functional for expandability was a nice design. This new one looks like I have giant cheese grater on the desk. I can only imagine how much dust and pet hair (dog-friendly offices these days) get stuck in those massive holes too. I also wonder how long till someone's child gets their finger stuck in one of those holes. It's almost like they don't have anyone with common sense to look at these products anymore. I truly wonder what Steve Jobs would say about these designs.

It's great they are finally getting back in the pro market but this is too much and possibly too late.

 

[developer13245]

how much are the optional wheels?

Here you go:

Whoever said Lamborghini was spot on. Apple even knocked off the wheels

https://www.oemwheelsdirect.com/pro...lamborghini-lp640-murcielago-hercules-wheels/

 

[ROGmaster]

They can say they are targeting at anyone they want, it does not mean it is appropriate. It is probably a fine monitor, but as I noted before, it is 5” smaller, not even 4K (UHD only), about 8 million pixels vs. 20.4 million, 600 nits vs. 1,000, (peaks at 1,000 vs. 1,600), and is only 97% of the P3 color space. Just not in the same league.

Yeah and it's also almost 3 times cheaper and the stand is included in the price.
For it's price is a very good monitor.

and is only 97% of the P3 color space

You keep repeating that like that's big negative, like those .3% it's missing make a huge difference or something.

Anyway like I've said, it's not just for gaming, it's perfectly usable for professional work.

 

[Alan Wynn]

The TVLogic monitor comes with multiple SDI inputs with is an industry standard in broadcast and post-production facilities. It also comes with "feet". Apple should include a more affordable stand and offer the "Pro Stand" as an option.

Yes, and adding a Blackmagic Design Teranex Mini ($1,295) to the machine and the stand and one is still cheaper than the TVLogic display for a monitor with higher contrast and 1,000 nits continuous.

 

[lie2me]

I wonder if one can just buy the motherboard, put it in a PC case, add a processor, liquid cooler, ram, SSD via PCIe, and a less expensive graphics card to get the price to $3k or less.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Yeah and it's also almost 3 times cheaper and the stand is included in the price.
For it's price is a very good monitor.

You keep saying it is a good monitor for the price. No one has argued that is not the case. What it is not is a reasonable replacement for a reference monitor.

You keep repeating that like that's big negative, like those .3% it's missing make a huge difference or something.

You refer to one of a long list of specs where it is not comparable and focus on it. It is inferior in every spec and is not suitable as a grading monitor.

Anyway like I've said, it's not just for gaming, it's perfectly usable for professional work.

It may be perfectly useable for professional work, as long as that professional work does not include HDR color grading or working with 4K DCI content. Just because it can be used by professionals does not make it a suitable replacement for the XDR.