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Yeah, I can't remember where I heard it...wish I could. And fair point on the consumer headset, but it still comes down to content/software, and unless Apple pays for ports, we'll get iOS games, but not AAA games. If there's no apps/games, there's no hardware sales. I wonder about what use cases they're targeting that 3k unit for....still haven't figured out where it fits in the market.

CAD models. Engineer designers use VR HMDs for designing CAD models and simulating the designs to check for errors before they send it to machinists to create.


Some businesses also have proprietary VR training sims. The US military also uses these mixed reality HMDs for training sims.
 
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Those comments show the incredible ignorance and arrogance of Apple that remind me of the company in the late 90's. "Apple" is not going to make the mac a great gaming platform, only developers can do that. "Apple" needs to provide the APIs that allow game companies a chance of turning a profit when developing a AAA game title. No one is going to do that on Metal 3, 4, 5 or whatever. "Taking the long view" essentially translates to "We aren't planning on doing anything different".
 
I really think Apple should buy EA, and start building up their gaming arsenal. They have to prove to the community their hardware is capable. Apple Arcade isn’t doing much for Apple, they need the IPs to help push them to the gaming word.
I think they are building something much bigger and AI and their new VR/AR platform is the final piece to the puzzle. The next generation processors play a crucial role in bringing everything to market.

2023 is about to get interesting.
 
Those comments show the incredible ignorance and arrogance of Apple that remind me of the company in the late 90's. "Apple" is not going to make the mac a great gaming platform, only developers can do that. "Apple" needs to provide the APIs that allow game companies a chance of turning a profit when developing a AAA game title. No one is going to do that on Metal 3, 4, 5 or whatever. "Taking the long view" essentially translates to "We aren't planning on doing anything different".
That sounds like the same comments about Apple for phones, Apple for Tablets, Apple for music production, Apple for watches, Apple for streaming, Apple for TV. Apple has not been serious about gaming since Pippin and they were half hearted then. While Apple has talked about games available and tools they created, this is the first I have heard Apple say they were working to turn the Mac into a gaming platform and that it became a priority with the first M1 chip design. Apple has never mention looking at development through a gaming lens.

Competitors should be concerned. Apple has yet to fail at any thing they play the long game on. They chose to attack Apple and refused to be true partners and it will not end well for them. AAA game developers have slighted Apple in the same way music production and video editing software vendors did two decades ago.
The result was Logic Pro and GarageBand for music and Final Cut Pro and iMovie for video. Even further back was Microsoft dragging out updated for Office Mac and refusing to really invest in the product. Apple’s response, iWork that continues to expand in capabilities. Apple tries really hard not to do consumer facing software. They are usually forced to do it and suddenly the original partners can improve their Mac version.

Gaming will be the next Software Market they are forced to take over to remain competitive in the computer space and AR with be a key component they will focus on
 
I guess now it is the time to buy a game studio. Maybe EA or Activision (if the deal with Microsoft will not happen because of EU). Another possibility is, they buy WarnerBrotherDiscover. With that, they have content and IPs for AppleTV+ and withe gamestudio of Warner they have knowledge about creating games. And another thing is, with a buy of WarnerBrotherDiscovery they bring games with DC characters
Yeah, but after all those CW shows, you need an industrial strength AC to make DC cool again 😆
 
I think they are building something much bigger and AI and their new VR/AR platform is the final piece to the puzzle. The next generation processors play a crucial role in bringing everything to market.

2023 is about to get interesting.
I wonder if Dirt and No Mans Sky got pushed back to incorporate VR support.
That sounds like the same comments about Apple for phones, Apple for Tablets, Apple for music production, Apple for watches, Apple for streaming, Apple for TV. Apple has not been serious about gaming since Pippin and they were half hearted then. While Apple has talked about games available and tools they created, this is the first I have heard Apple say they were working to turn the Mac into a gaming platform and that it became a priority with the first M1 chip design. Apple has never mention looking at development through a gaming lens.

Competitors should be concerned. Apple has yet to fail at any thing they play the long game on. They chose to attack Apple and refused to be true partners and it will not end well for them. AAA game developers have slighted Apple in the same way music production and video editing software vendors did two decades ago.
The result was Logic Pro and GarageBand for music and Final Cut Pro and iMovie for video. Even further back was Microsoft dragging out updated for Office Mac and refusing to really invest in the product. Apple’s response, iWork that continues to expand in capabilities. Apple tries really hard not to do consumer facing software. They are usually forced to do it and suddenly the original partners can improve their Mac version.

Gaming will be the next Software Market they are forced to take over to remain competitive in the computer space and AR with be a key component they will focus on
Apple will have to bring something unique (read exclusive) to the table for Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo to really be worried.
 
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Great, I hope by the time I'm in need for a new Mac that I'll be able to play every latest AAA game.

Because, right now I still can on my 2020 iMac.
 
VR gaming has zero money in it. Sony sold 5 million VR headsets for the 100+ million PS4's sold. They just cut their order of the new VR headsets in half from 2 million to 1 million. Hardly any new games being developed for VR. Mostly just regular games being adapted for it and that has its plus and minuses.
Sony did not cut their order:

 
As a game dev running a business here, it’s not about the hardware or the tools. It’s about marketshare. Even if Apple TODAY came out with what would be an equivalent of a RTX 5090 or 6090, it wouldn’t matter. Also not all games require this much power. I played Elden Ring on a GTX 1080. Also, Nintendo Switch gets more AAA games and the hardware is a complete joke.

From a business perspective, I will not put significant effort into a Mac version. Even though I’m using Unity and it’s literally a few clicks and I have a macOS copy, it still requires testing.
 
That sounds like the same comments about Apple for phones, Apple for Tablets, Apple for music production, Apple for watches, Apple for streaming, Apple for TV. Apple has not been serious about gaming since Pippin and they were half hearted then. While Apple has talked about games available and tools they created, this is the first I have heard Apple say they were working to turn the Mac into a gaming platform and that it became a priority with the first M1 chip design. Apple has never mention looking at development through a gaming lens.

Competitors should be concerned. Apple has yet to fail at any thing they play the long game on. They chose to attack Apple and refused to be true partners and it will not end well for them. AAA game developers have slighted Apple in the same way music production and video editing software vendors did two decades ago.
The result was Logic Pro and GarageBand for music and Final Cut Pro and iMovie for video. Even further back was Microsoft dragging out updated for Office Mac and refusing to really invest in the product. Apple’s response, iWork that continues to expand in capabilities. Apple tries really hard not to do consumer facing software. They are usually forced to do it and suddenly the original partners can improve their Mac version.

Gaming will be the next Software Market they are forced to take over to remain competitive in the computer space and AR with be a key component they will focus on
you sure about that? homepod, project titan, that triple power wireless charging thing, just to name a few.
 
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Since I ditched my iMac 2019 I switched to Geforce Now for my gaming needs. In the age of fast internet connections you no longer need to own the hardware to game - you can rent it. For below 10€/$ a month (+cost of the game), or 15€/$ if you want 4K, you can play all the AAA titles you want on an Apple Silicon Mac. With todays GPU prices (700+€/$) and the need to upgrade your hardware every 3 years or so if you have a gaming PC it’s actually quite cost efficient. I bought Top of the Line iMacs for gaming on the side in the past but GPU, RAM, Chipset and Bootcamp are irrelevant now.
 
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CAD models. Engineer designers use VR HMDs for designing CAD models and simulating the designs to check for errors before they send it to machinists to create.


Some businesses also have proprietary VR training sims. The US military also uses these mixed reality HMDs for training sims.
Oh I get that, but last I looked, the professional CAD and 3d modeling software (Autocad, solidworks, etc) doesn't run on Mac. Ditto for trainers for the military. I seriously doubt that they'd port that code over just because of a headset. with an unclear market. This is going to be a chicken and the egg problem between software availability and market size unless Apple funds software ports.
 
That sounds like the same comments about Apple for phones, Apple for Tablets, Apple for music production, Apple for watches, Apple for streaming, Apple for TV. Apple has not been serious about gaming since Pippin and they were half hearted then. While Apple has talked about games available and tools they created, this is the first I have heard Apple say they were working to turn the Mac into a gaming platform and that it became a priority with the first M1 chip design. Apple has never mention looking at development through a gaming lens.

Competitors should be concerned. Apple has yet to fail at any thing they play the long game on. They chose to attack Apple and refused to be true partners and it will not end well for them. AAA game developers have slighted Apple in the same way music production and video editing software vendors did two decades ago.
The result was Logic Pro and GarageBand for music and Final Cut Pro and iMovie for video. Even further back was Microsoft dragging out updated for Office Mac and refusing to really invest in the product. Apple’s response, iWork that continues to expand in capabilities. Apple tries really hard not to do consumer facing software. They are usually forced to do it and suddenly the original partners can improve their Mac version.

Gaming will be the next Software Market they are forced to take over to remain competitive in the computer space and AR with be a key component they will focus on
The difference from the iphone/tablet/etc is that they created the market from nothing. The gaming market exists, is huge, and is on other platforms. Yes, there are games on iOS, but the numbers with massive revenue are few and far between. If you look at the gaming industry overall it's console and Windows PC (with linux still way ahead of mac). Inertia is a powerful thing.

Most of the mac games we have are ones that don't push the edge of technology (e.g. they use a standard, unmodified or lightly modified engine). Those will continue for sure, but the loss of OpenGL makes even those less common, and even then, it still takes development and QA (and marketing, support, etc) costs to port a game. If there's no business case, there's no business case.

Now with their cash pile, could Apple decide to enter the market and fund development of AAA games? Sure. Those take 2-4 years to complete, and apple would have to stand up (or buy) an entire gaming studio. They could also fund ports of existing titles to their platform, which is probably more likely, and would take only 12-18 months. If they did either of those, would Mac be more relevant? Sure. And if they invested in a cloud gaming service, then the whole platform conversation might be largely moot (assuming people have high speed connections).

But for the existing game companies, it's a hard business case to spend limited time and money to port games to a minor platform - especially one that doesn't support top-tier graphics cards and uses a completely different graphics API. It all comes down to return on investment. Ironically, for indie game developers, it's probably more profitable to port to mac because they're all we get!

I've been gaming on Apple computers since the very early 1980's, and honestly hope you're right, because I'd like to be able to play major titles on my mac. But I'm not holding my breath.
 
But the Switch has something besides hardware, too. It has a company behind it that values gaming. And Apple does not.
Wii U failed because it didn’t have as much third party support. It’s not just because it has Nintendo behind it.
 
Since I ditched my iMac 2019 I switched to Geforce Now for my gaming needs. In the age of fast internet connections you no longer need to own the hardware to game - you can rent it. For below 10€/$ a month (+cost of the game), or 15€/$ if you want 4K, you can play all the AAA titles you want on an Apple Silicon Mac. With todays GPU prices (700+€/$) and the need to upgrade your hardware every 3 years or so if you have a gaming PC it’s actually quite cost efficient. I bought Top of the Line iMacs for gaming on the side in the past but GPU, RAM, Chipset and Bootcamp are irrelevant now.
I do the same, with Shadow. It's more expensive, but gives me a full cloud computer so I can run any game I install. Even at $30/month it still will take years to equal the cost of an equivalent local gaming machine.

For mac users, cloud gaming is probably the path forward.
 
As a game dev running a business here, it’s not about the hardware or the tools. It’s about marketshare. Even if Apple TODAY came out with what would be an equivalent of a RTX 5090 or 6090, it wouldn’t matter. Also not all games require this much power. I played Elden Ring on a GTX 1080. Also, Nintendo Switch gets more AAA games and the hardware is a complete joke.

From a business perspective, I will not put significant effort into a Mac version. Even though I’m using Unity and it’s literally a few clicks and I have a macOS copy, it still requires testing.
^^^ this. I hear the same thing from people I know at the major studios too.
 
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I do the same, with Shadow. It's more expensive, but gives me a full cloud computer so I can run any game I install. Even at $30/month it still will take years to equal the cost of an equivalent local gaming machine.

For mac users, cloud gaming is probably the path forward.
I actually used Shadow for six month last year but ditched it when they sold to a new owner. Speeds dropped during that time when they switched to new data centers. I moved to GeForce Now then. Shadow is still a decent option if the speed improved and you need a windows computer for other stuff too.
 
Oh I get that, but last I looked, the professional CAD and 3d modeling software (Autocad, solidworks, etc) doesn't run on Mac.

Yes they do! AutoCAD has been on Mac for years.

And VR headsets use their own CAD software.

 
96GB of VRAM would be more interesting for running AI models (Stable Diffusion and friends) than for games, IMO.
OMG THEY SAID THE BUZZWORD. When apple do AI, it'll be through a dedicated pot board chip with it's own capabilities outside of the main RAM. Same as they've done with media encoders, privacy on phones etc. Mad that you think it's either / or. Are you new?
 
People want to know when to buy a Mac not because they are the small percentage of users that want to eek out small improvements in performance but because:

1. They‘r considerably more expensive than the competition and people want them to last as long as possible.
2. Apple has set a tradition of not supporting older devices. Sometimes on terribly fast cycles. Mac Pro would be the most obv. example. Support is there now but the move to M silicon suggests it won’t last long.
3. Hardware has moved towards less ability to upgrade which exacerbates the issues above. Mac Mini is impressive but really only at the 2k price point.
4. New versions of MacOS also supports fewer and fewer devices over time. 3rd party apps can work on multitudes of devices and OS, where MacOS abruptly stops support for older devices or in the case of iOS can render an older device unusable.

For instance I love the Mac Studio but with the M2 releases will not buy one until I see the same chip. It seems poorly planned to improve one or two devices but not others that sit at the same high prices. My perspective is also from teaching at a college where we have not been able to properly plan and fund new pro level Macs for decades.
 
Reading the entire article explains Apple's big whiff on the Mac Pro transition, which is now either 8 or 4 months late (depending on if you buy the moving goal post BS).
The Apple execs actually explain desktop AS was "born" out of their experience developing the iPad Pro. They also admit the M1 was not focused on pure peak performance, but rather that they could "reset" user expectations around what kind of performance you expect from a portable computer. This means M chip "DNA" will never be compatible with the Mac Pro. Even when they discuss scaleability for machines with "active cooling", they really only reference their CURRENT "pro class machines", which is NOT the Mac Pro.
And, if there is some "big news" regarding the Mac Pro, these execs certainly would have "teased" a bright future announcement without giving excess details. But they did not.
So it looks like the Mac Pro will be a M2 Mac Studio in a fancy aluminum / 304 stainless tower. This will be joke if the only upgradeable component is SSD. I guess $400 wheel upgrades make them a pile of money?
Apple Silicon (M) SOC architecture has put the Mac Pro right back into the "thermal design corner" of the Trash can Mac Pro. When the main (only) design goal of an architecture is performance per watt, designers will NEVER consider new technologies that might yield a 10X (or more) performance increase at the cost of a 5X more power consumption. Such ideas would be considered sacrilege, and I'm sure Apple enforces strict consumption of their own flavor aid.
The only way they can avoid this is to develop an entirely different line of "P"(for Pro?) chips that aren't SOC constrained. I really hope that's what they're realizing, but I doubt it.
 
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