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Apple Executives Speak on the 'Low-Cost Phone', Android's Fragmentation Issues

samcraig said:
But there isn't any major app on iOS that isn't on Android. Can you give an example?
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Apple has a handy "Exclusives" section if you'd like to browse the iOS-only apps. Not knowing which are iOS-only due to marketing, and which are due to the developers not wanting to target Android, I won't list specifics.

I did browse through the Play Store a bit though, and while most apps seem to require 2.1 or 2.2 as a minimum, I did see at least one needing 2.3.3 (PvZ) and there are a number that show "varies by device" as the minimum OS version. Not sure what that exactly means, though. Tablet+phone combined apps? Tablet-specific apps seem to require 4.0 as a minimum.

Does having to continue to support 2.1 and 2.2 hold back apps any? Play Services and Support Library can help, but the apps don't get to enjoy the latest Application Framework.

And I think it's been stated that the idea that there is "a lot" of fragmentation is not accurate. Not where it really matters.
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Obviously Android is doing well. Also obviously, there is more fragmentation in the Android realm than iOS - and of course it's not stopping the success of Android. Whether somebody considers the level of fragmentation a "lot" is up to that person's personal opinion. Whether a developer considers the level of fragmentation when they decide on which platform(s) to target is up to that developer.
 
BaldiMac said:
Well, that's obviously not true. Infinity Blade being an obvious example.

Not accurate? By what metric?
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By most metrics that have been stated repeatedly in this thread. Of course if you want to be contrary for contrary sake go right ahead :rolleyes:

And I don't think one example - of a game that was marketed as an exclusive (and likely contracted that way at least for a term) is a good example. And while gaming is popular - I personally don't think one or two exclusive hot games qualifies the statement that major apps are only available on iOS. Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Shazam, SoundCloud, Instagram, Pandora, Spotify, Plex, WhatsApp, Netflix,. Hulu, Kindle, Dropbox, and so on. These are the major apps so many rely and depend on. None exclusive to iOS. And both constantly updated for both platforms.

elistan said:
Apple has a handy "Exclusives" section if you'd like to browse the iOS-only apps. Not knowing which are iOS-only due to marketing, and which are due to the developers not wanting to target Android, I won't list specifics.

Obviously Android is doing well. Also obviously, there is more fragmentation in the Android realm than iOS - and of course it's not stopping the success of Android. Whether somebody considers the level of fragmentation a "lot" is up to that person's personal opinion. Whether a developer considers the level of fragmentation when they decide on which platform(s) to target is up to that developer.
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To be fair - "won't list specifics" is really "can't list specifics." right?

I agree - fragmentation is a matter of personal opinion. In my experience (I'm not stating fact) that most of the people who have a strong opinion of fragmentation don't know what they are talking about - because most of them aren't versed well enough with "both" platforms to speak intelligently about it. It just becomes finger pointing or regurgitation of what someone said. And I think we've both seen plenty of ignorance in this thread to validate that. Ignorance, stubbornness, denial or what have you.

ETA: Although an older report, this indicates it's a business decision, not a fragmentation issue

http://mashable.com/2011/11/23/infinity-blade-mobile-gaming-success/

“We’re confident that will be worked out and it will become a viable place for game developers, but that hasn’t happened yet. So it’s not the tech, it’s the business platform.”

Now we can argue about app piracy among platforms ;)
 
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samcraig said:
By most metrics that have been stated repeatedly in this thread.
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Which metrics? Surely the Android version metrics posted by Google indicate "a lot" of fragmentation?

And I don't think one example - of a game that was marketed as an exclusive (and likely contracted that way at least for a term) is a good example. And while gaming is popular - I personally don't think one or two exclusive hot games qualifies the statement that major apps are only available on iOS. Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Shazam, SoundCloud, Instagram, Pandora, Spotify, Plex, WhatsApp, Netflix,. Hulu, Kindle, Dropbox, and so on. These are the major apps so many rely and depend on. None exclusive to iOS. And both constantly updated for both platforms.
Click to expand...

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

Here is what you said:
But there isn't any major app on iOS that isn't on Android. Can you give an example?
Click to expand...

But now games don't count. So I'll say Tweetbot, Reeder, Clear, Day One, Paper and Things off the top of my head.

To be fair - "won't list specifics" is really "can't list specifics." right?
Click to expand...

No, as he said, there is a list of iOS exclusives on the App Store.
 
BaldiMac said:
Which metrics? Surely the Android version metrics posted by Google indicate "a lot" of fragmentation?

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

Here is what you said:
But now games don't count. So I'll say Tweetbot, Reeder, Clear, Day One, Paper and Things off the top of my head.

No, as he said, there is a list of iOS exclusives on the App Store.
Click to expand...

After this I'm not engaging with you on this thread anymore. Just a heads up.

"and which are due to the developers not wanting to target Android, I won't list specifics." is what he said. So my comment is valid. He can't speak to whether or not they have anything to do with exclusives or because of fragmentation.

I'm not moving any goalposts. You are entitled to think so. A handful of apps that have equal or more popular counterparts exist on both platforms. None of the ones you list, I personally, consider a MAJOR app. Maybe it's because I personally don't use them or use an app which IS offered on both platforms and works better for me.

And the Android chart has already been discussed and how it doesn't tell the full story just by looking at it in regards to actual fragmentation - and where it matters. But if you want to consider a feature phone running an older version of Android that wouldn't be able to run the app in question because it wasn't designed for it and/or the person would most likely never need or use it because they bought an inexpensive Android phone just to use it for talking and texting - that's also your prerogative. But let's not pretend the chart tells the whole story.
 
samcraig said:
I'm not moving any goalposts. You are entitled to think so. A handful of apps that have equal or more popular counterparts exist on both platforms. None of the ones you list, I personally, consider a MAJOR app. Maybe it's because I personally don't use them or use an app which IS offered on both platforms and works better for me.
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Well, maybe if you are going to use a personal interpretation of you comments, you should share it with the rest of us before you ask for examples. My examples certainly qualified as major apps on iOS that are not on Android.

And the Android chart has already been discussed and how it doesn't tell the full story just by looking at it in regards to actual fragmentation - and where it matters.
Click to expand...

That's fine. That's your opinion. I am just asking what metric you are using to claim that "the idea that there is "a lot" of fragmentation is not accurate."

But if you want to consider a feature phone running an older version of Android that wouldn't be able to run the app in question because it wasn't designed for it and/or the person would most likely never need or use it because they bought an inexpensive Android phone just to use it for talking and texting - that's also your prerogative. But let's not pretend the chart tells the whole story.
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Again, a feature phone that does not access Google Play is not counted in the Android version statistics. It only counts active Google Play users.
 
samcraig said:
To be fair - "won't list specifics" is really "can't list specifics." right?
Click to expand...

No, not right. Here are some specific iOS-only apps:
 

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elistan said:
No, not right. Here are some specific iOS-only apps:
Click to expand...

I think there's a misunderstanding in either my interpretation or something.

You said " Not knowing which are iOS-only due to marketing, and which are due to the developers not wanting to target Android, I won't list specifics."

I was questioning the ability to be able to list apps that were exclusive to iOS because developers not wanting to target Android and/or because of some marketing agreement"

IE - for Infinity Blade - it seems as though (at least in 2011) that it had nothing to do with fragmentation (which was probably worse?) but because of the piracy issue.

Obviously there are iOS and Android exclusive apps.
 
samcraig said:
I think there's a misunderstanding in either my interpretation or something.

You said " Not knowing which are iOS-only due to marketing, and which are due to the developers not wanting to target Android, I won't list specifics."

I was questioning the ability to be able to list apps that were exclusive to iOS because developers not wanting to target Android and/or because of some marketing agreement.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, what you meant wasn't clear. I thought you meant I was not able to list iOS exclusive apps, when I actually chose to not list iOS exclusive apps because, as you say, we don't know why various apps are iOS-only.
 
BaldiMac said:
But now games don't count. So I'll say Tweetbot, Reeder, Clear, Day One, Paper and Things off the top of my head.
Click to expand...

For people who consider games important, it should count. I couldn't care less. From the apps you listed, there are other apps on the Play Store that are as good or better than the exclusive ones on iOS with one exception. So what difference does it make? There will be apps on Android that are not on iOS and those will be because iOS does not expose much of the functionality that makes these apps possible or Apple doesn't allow them in the App Store. I'd argue that it would be easier to get the iOS apps on Android than the reverse precisely for that reason.

BTW, the one app in your list that I don't think has an equivalent is Paper. That seems to be a brilliant app. A quick look at the Play Store came up with Bamboo Paper and Autocad Sketchbook. But I think they pale in comparison to what Paper seems to do. From their website, it appears that they don't have the resources and they do seem to think that Fragmentation is a problem. I think if they fix the first problem they might find that they were mistaken about the fragmentation. The apps on the PlayStore at least show that technically, it's possible to port Paper to Android.

Back when I was switched from the iPad to an Android tablet, the one app I used and loved on the iPad was Flipboard. And I missed it on Android. It took a while for it to appear on Android. But I used Pulse in the meanwhile. The other benefits of an Android tablet easily outweighed the benefit of Flipboard. But I'm glad to use both now.

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elistan said:
Obviously Android is doing well. Also obviously, there is more fragmentation in the Android realm than iOS - and of course it's not stopping the success of Android. Whether somebody considers the level of fragmentation a "lot" is up to that person's personal opinion. Whether a developer considers the level of fragmentation when they decide on which platform(s) to target is up to that developer.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it better myself. Folks needs to use it and decide for themselves whether it's a big deal or not. As many of us have realized, it's not. But for some, it may well be.
 
elistan said:
Bravo! 1000 Internets to you, sir, for your correct usage of the phrase.
Sorry, OT, I know, just felt like reinforcing correct language because it can seen only rarely sometimes. It literally kills me to see "I could care less." ;)
Now back to our regularly schedule debate...
:cool:
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After all that you go and use "literally" incorrectly. If it literally kills you you wouldn't be here to write it.



Michael
 
Tinmania said:
After all that you go and use "literally" incorrectly. If it literally kills you you wouldn't be here to write it.



Michael
Click to expand...

Your right. But the ;) wink smiley and the italics are there for a reason. :D Perhaps I should start using <joke></joke> tags when I'm trying to be funny on the Internet...

Since I didn't use such tags I should mention that yes, "your" above is a joke too. ;)

I tried to work in they're vs their vs there as well, but I'm not creative enough to figure out how.
 
CptnJustc said:
There is actually healthy debate about this.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ord-english-dictionary-linguistics-etymology/

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_good_word/2005/11/the_word_we_love_to_hate.html

Hope your head didn't just literally explode. :)
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Well aware of those debates. Pretty funny, actually.

But what struck me as funny was using literally, when not really meaning literally, regarding "could care less" (which could be argued is now normal usage... similar to the debate about literally :)).

I am literally done with this diversion of the topic at hand.




Michael
 
Technarchy said:
You think reports of Samsung scrambling to get a 4.3 update done in October are an accident? Since when has Samsung ever made an effort to update their devices that quick?

4.3 is a dependency on which Gear compatibility is built. Without it the Gear will be poised for one of the worst product launches on recent history because of fragmentation.
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No, 4.3 is not a dependency, Samsung has had a BT 4.0 LE stack since months, this is the reason Fitbit and other BT 4.0LE devices are compatible with Samsung devices.

If 4.3 was a dependency, it would have been compatible with Nexus 4/Nexus 7/Nexus 7(2013) and it isn't.

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marksman said:
Actually that is exactly how it works. Google play is another layer on top of android.
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No, it isn't.
 
Oletros said:
No, 4.3 is not a dependency, Samsung has had a BT 4.0 LE stack since months, this is the reason Fitbit and other BT 4.0LE devices are compatible with Samsung devices.

If 4.3 was a dependency, it would have been compatible with Nexus 4/Nexus 7/Nexus 7(2013) and it isn't.

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No, it isn't.
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That's not what everyone else in the market says.

http://www.androidauthority.com/android-4-3-coming-to-samsung-galaxy-s3-and-s4-next-month-263690/
One device conspicuous by its absence in Samsung’s announcement was the Galaxy Note 2. The Note 2, which was released this time last year, is currently running Android 4.1 and it was assumed that Samsung would upgrade it to Android 4.3 along with the S3 and S4. Since the new Galaxy Note 3 will ship with Android 4.3 it is highly likely that the latest version will come to the Note 2 but we are just awaiting confirmation and dates from Samsung.

Android 4.3 is still a variant of Android Jelly Bean (along with 4.1 and 4.2) but it does bring some interesting new features including restricted profiles (a much better way to handle multiple users on the same tablet), Bluetooth 4.0 low-energy support,
Click to expand...

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/galaxy-s4-galaxy-s3-android-4-3-release-date/
The Gear is only compatible with hardware running Android 4.3 and at the moment, that’s only the Galaxy Note 3 and the 2014 Note 10.1
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Whether true or not, it's the case Samsung as made for not supporting it on the S4, Note 2 and other devices.
 
Curun said:
That's not what everyone else in the market says.

http://www.androidauthority.com/android-4-3-coming-to-samsung-galaxy-s3-and-s4-next-month-263690/


http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/galaxy-s4-galaxy-s3-android-4-3-release-date/


Whether true or not, it's the case Samsung as made for not supporting it on the S4, Note 2 and other devices.
Click to expand...


What the market says is irrelevant, the fact is that Samsung has had BT 4.0- LTE in their phones since months ago and some devices are compatibles with them like Fitbit and some heart rate devices

I repeat, if 4.3 was a dependency and 4.3 was compatible just for having the 4.0 BT LTS stack Nexus 4, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 7 (both 2012 and 2013) or Nexus 10 would have been compatible but they are not compatible with the gear

So yes, the fragmentation thing in this case isjust ********
 
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